Disappointing Changes to 2008 Disney Dining

[beachclubbasics]

Could still be a good deal in some cases but, under the new rules in 2008, a $70 dinner at Narcoosee's (boy, that's hard to spell) will cost:

(2 table service credits + (an 18% tip x $70) + the cost of any appetizers).
More if the tip is larger.

That's the kind of 2008 math that is making people question the value of the DDP in the future.

Very true.

I'm going to bow out gracefully..lol..now. I just fear that WDC is going the way of Walmart...profit above all else (and yes, I'm a Disney Co. shareholder).

Did anyone see Escape from LA? The Happy Kingdom is supposed to be Disneyland after it drives itself out of business (Kurt Russell, that former Disney kid, was going through an anti-Disney phase,...lol). I'd hate to ever see that happen. I'd like for my grandkids and great grandkids to be able to visit as I have such great memories of the place.

IN fact, I credit WDW for being one of the main reasons why my now 12 year old has healed so well after the death of my husband (firefighter who died in the lne of duty). These yearly trips mean everything to him and looking forward to them helps to mintain his spirit thrughout the year. It pains me to see even him say negatives things about the place (mainly baout the cost of souveniers though..lol).

 

[DABIGCHEEZ]

You must be from my part of the NJ Shore (Southern part). The Mouse can do no wrong here and most people are utterly obsessed with Disney. Even our high school hs Disney characters painted all over the walls and they play Disney music constantly in the halls. They even thank WDW staff during graduation (they do the senior trip there if you can call it that...300 spaces for a 700 student class). Does Disney sponsor our graduation or something? lol

Geeze the NJ shore must be a terrible place to live...lol

Just because one has bad exeperices somwhere doesn't mean they hate a place..it means they had bad expereinces. And when WDC figures out that overcharging will actually hurt their bottom line, they'll stop. Right now WDW is awash in money and visitors, mainly due to a great exchange rate in favor of the Brits ( I woud have to say that a good majority of visitors are formt he UK these days).

Somehow I dont think WDW will be hurt by the price increase. Either people will pay for their food at disney restaurants or take the time they could spend at the parks to go off property. I somehow think the first option will happen more... but it is just a hunch!!! And by the way, it has been my experience each year.. there have always been alot of our good friends from across the pond. The exchange rate may mean a upswing but they are always going to WDW.

 

[DABIGCHEEZ]

I agree with you there. I've been to WDW almost every year since it opened in 71 and we had a great time then, even though Tomorrowland bascially ended right after the Monsanto theater building, and Pirates wasn't there. However, a room only cost $29 per night at the Contemporary and I'm sure the food was much much cheaper as well. Has anyone ever figured out the price changes of certain items like rooms/food/common souveniers from '71 to '07?

I think that the way we view food has also changed. Back then it was nurtition in an entertaining venue, now the food is as much of the entertainment itself as is the place where it is served.

As compared to what.... gasoline or milk? :shrug:

 

[scpergj]

Bravo.

The sense of entitlement on almost all Disney boards can be suffocating at times.

Now if Disney kept the appetizer and the gratuity included, yet raised the price for 2008, people would be complaining about that!

I've noticed that, too...been torn a new one a couple of times for the same sort of thoughts. Just remember, people are going to complain no matter what Disney does.

Kevin

 

[daliseurat]

Ok, I'm going to play out an example, see how you like it:

This guest spent the day at MK (I hope they saw Wishes!)

Guest not on dining plan :

Bacon cheeseburger and coke at Peco Bills: $10.04
Mickey ice cream bar: $2.50
Chicken Florentine at Tony's for dinner: $22.49
w/ coke: $2.19
w/ dessert: $5.69
w/ tax dinner total: $32.19
20% tip: $6.44
Total Dinner: $38.63
Grand total for the day for the guest: $51.17

Guest on dining plan:
$37.99 + $6.44 out of pocket for tip: $44.43

So is the Dining Plan less of a deal - yes, in this case by about $6.50 if you tip well - but it saved you $7, it's still a deal.

And again, if you don't think so ... don't ... get ... the DDP

Okay. You know what? I am now convinced that the changes are not a RIP OFF. The DDP is certainly no where NEAR the deal it WAS, but, if you eat a table service meal every day, along with dessert, you will probably save money. But the fact that I can't choose between appetizer and dessert is really irritating. The current plan lets me BELIEVE I am treating myself all day long. And I am still annoyed by the exclusion of the tip. I'd rather they raised the price and included the tip so could relax and not worry about it. Since folks are doing some math, I'll share my own math trick. Before I bought the plan last time I did the math for the way my family eats. Then I got the current menus for all the restaurants we planned to eat in. I then added up what we would most likely spend if we didn't have a plan. We always eat one table service meal a day. Sometimes 2. We almost never get dessert, and usually split an appetizer. This was the first trip our child would need a separate meal, and the children's meals were definitely going to work out with the DDP for her. So, when I added up what we would normally spend, I found that this is what we would order:

TS: Dinner, Drink, Split Appetizer
CS: Lunch, Drink
Snack: Soda, Fruit.

But...we were going to do a Princess Lunch @ 25+ and Boma 25+

I even figured out tax and tip.


So, the way we eat we were never going to get Dessert for TS or CS, and normally would split an appetizer. For us the numbers added up to about a 4 doller a day saving for my wife and I, and 8 dollars or more for our child. So it worked great for us. And since we COULD, be indulged in appetizers and desserts. And we found that we could frequently get fruit for a dessert and take it with us for a snack later. I would encourage anyone interested in the paln at all to just do what I did. Add up what you would normally eat. If you don't do TS or Character meals, the plan really isn't going to save you any money. And with the tip removed, it isn't convenient. So much to my chagrin, I would have to reluctantly say I might just get the plan (reversing all my talk) again. I would probably save some money. But I will always be annoyed about the tip.

 

[jsfra209]

I agree. While I understand the frustration, I do think this will create an incentive for better service, and people will reward servers accordingly.

-SIGH-... If everyone thought like you then the world would be a great place! Unfortunatley, most people do not! I'm afraid that to report that the majority of people (especially at a vacation resort where people are already on a budget that is likley S-T-R-E-C-H-E-D to the max) tip very poorly or simply do not tip at all. I think the idea of including the tip in the base price ensures that these waiters and waitressess will be able to eek out some kind of living. I feel really bad for them, this could be a huge problem. :shrug:

 

[Hakunamatata]

-SIGH-... If everyone thought like you then the world would be a great place! Unfortunatley, most people do not! I'm afraid that to report that the majority of people (especially at a vacation resort where people are already on a budget that is likley S-T-R-E-C-H-E-D to the max) tip very poorly or simply do not tip at all. I think the idea of including the tip in the base price ensures that these waiters and waitressess will be able to eek out some kind of living. I feel really bad for them, this could be a huge problem. :shrug:

Well, I might go along with that except that as someone reported along the way that the Servers Union requested the change because the servers were losing more money because of the way the tips were being reported to the IRS. Evidently, enough people tip well enough to make it better for the servers to be tipped by the patron and not by the company with a higher chunk going to Uncle Scam.

 

[Zummi Gummi]

I suspect the great majority of people will not have any idea gratuity is no longer included, especially if they have used the plan in the past. Sadly, I think the waiters will lose out on this change, unless Disney makes it VERY clear to people that gratuity is no longer included.

 

[tink74]

Hi All,

Pardon me if this has been asked or seems like a silly question...... This is the 2008 dining plan yet the regular ticket price went up a couple of weeks ago and they said it was for 2008 packages. I just booked my tickets and dining plan for my Oct. 2007 trip. Does my dining package include gratuity? They didn't make any special mention of changes and I certainly do not want to short change any servers.

TIA,
Alison

 

[brianhorn]

This all sounds plausible. Thank you for such a complete explanation. I also think that if we were given a choice between dessert and appetizer, it would be more reasonable. However, doing the math, the new plan is not a real value for my family. It's maybe break even as long as I use the plan to it's fullest. And it's now become an annoyance. I really enjoyed being able to sit at a Table Service restaurant and treat myself to appetizers and desserts I wouldn't normally order and not have to think about the tip. Now, I can live with the loss of the appetizer, but the tip sucks. Now the card is no better than my own credit card. Now I have to think about the tip. And frankly, I'll probably tip LESS. Why? Because I don't automatically tip 18 to 20 percent. My waiter has to EARN it. And I have had some truly lame service at WDW lately. The staff should be GRATEFUL tips were coming their way at 18% automatically. I actually decided not to use my dining plan one night just so I could intentionally give a lousy tip to my lousy waiter. Now when I get great service I tip 20-25%. I enjoy eating out, and I expect good service. From WDW I expect GREAT service. For those who are delivering the great service, I feel sorry for them. They will get less tips and get stiffed by people who don't realize they are doing it. But for those of you phoning it it, don't be surprised if you get way less with this new plan. And you can thank your union for that one.

The best thing to do if you don't like the changes is to:

A. Not use it.
B. Write Disney and complain about it. And be SPECIFIC.

A few years ago the resorts discontinued MAGIC MORNINGS and substitued a vanload of characters who came to your resort and basically kept you there even longer. Well, for ME, this was a blow. My favorite perk at WDW was MAGIC MORNINGS. I almost cancelled my reservations when I found out. But being that I found out two weeks before, that wasn't feasible. I called and complained. They offered me nothing for my inconvenience. I wrote several specific letters complaining. I got 2 calls from the Disney company trying to explain the change in a positive way. I rebuffed them and wrote another letter complaining about their lame attempt to assuage my complaints. I pointed out that when I am happy at WDW I spend more money and make a point of coming back asap and recommending WDW vacations to everyone. When I am unhappy, I spend no money and don't bother recommending WDW. And when asked, I point out all the negatives that annoyed me. Now won't pretend that my little letters had any REAL effect, but a year or so later, MAGIC MORNINGS was back. I have to wonder how many other people had the same complaint as I did. Let your feeling be known to the company. So, once more I will start writing letters. And I won't use the NEW dining plan. And we'll see what happens next year.

Rest assured, your voice does make a difference. Statistics show that for every 4 people that take the time to provide feedback to a company, 96 do not. I have found that when providing feedback, not to be negative and give specifics as to what you would like the remedy to be.

 

[mousefan1972]

Hi All,

Pardon me if this has been asked or seems like a silly question...... This is the 2008 dining plan yet the regular ticket price went up a couple of weeks ago and they said it was for 2008 packages. I just booked my tickets and dining plan for my Oct. 2007 trip. Does my dining package include gratuity? They didn't make any special mention of changes and I certainly do not want to short change any servers.

TIA,
Alison

The dining plan includes gratuity until December 31, 2007.

 

[dave2822]

So ... after all this conversation, the main problems people are seemingly having are:

"The DDP is no longer as great of a deal!!"
No it's not. It was a steal before ... when used correctly guests were getting far more than they should have for their money. Now it's been adjusted. It's still a deal.

"Disney is nickel and diming me!!"
Give me a break. It's still a deal, it's not a "rip off." And please find me a place in the world where you can visit a popular table service restaurant in a major tourist destination and spend significantly less. You can't.

"The poor servers!!"
It's what the Union wanted. The Union representes the servers. So don't worry about it.

"I don't care what the numbers say, I don't feel like it's as good of a deal!!"
That's fine It's not as good of a deal anymore. If you don't want to get it, don't. If you only ate at mostly CS restaurants, the plan was never beneficial to you. If you used the plan correctly, it's still a deal. You really are only paying an extra 5 bucks at most per person (if you're a good tipper). And appetizers aren't good for you anyway :animwink:

"They are trying to scam me into thinking a dollar less is a big deal!!"
Right ... but when they reverse the direction to which the dollar goes (i.e. ticket prices going up a few bucks) it IS a big deal. Interesting ...

"I love to complain!!"
:wave: Welcome ... you will be happy here.

 

[jt04]

^^Thank you Dave2822! It is GOOD to know there are still reasoning people on this board and not just whiners!

 

[MythBuster]

The tipped servers still make very, very good money. It's all the non-tipped people they don't make very good money.

 

[righttrack]

Having your tips taxed at the higher "bonus" rate is just wrong. Wages, salaries and tips, should be taxed at the proper rate. The union got this right, and its an important change. The waitstaff was losing at least another 10% to taxes because the tips were being classified as "bonuses". Why they could not pay them properly, is another question entirely, but there could be some IRS problems with doing that.

As for the loss of appetizer, I think its important to acknowledge, that a sit-down meal, by its very nature is appetizer, entree, desert. Sometimes a poor experience with one of those items (entree, desert, app) is made up for by a superior experience with another. By taking the app away, you are lessening the chances for overall customer satisfaction. This will bite them back, and make many lesser value meals less popular.

 

[Ausdaddy]

So ... after all this conversation, the main problems people are seemingly having are:

"The DDP is no longer as great of a deal!!"
No it's not. It was a steal before ... when used correctly guests were getting far more than they should have for their money. Now it's been adjusted. It's still a deal.
.

I don't understand this comment at all. So people didn't "deserve" to get a good deal? That's silly. Disney set the terms of the plan and I don't think it was being abused so how were they getting "far more than they should have for their money" ? Disney set the terms and new what they were doing. It's not like they were losing money on it. It's Disney's right to change the plan. It's not whining to say the value has been reduced. It has, period.

 

[dave2822]

I don't understand this comment at all. So people didn't "deserve" to get a good deal? That's silly. Disney set the terms of the plan and I don't think it was being abused so how were they getting "far more than they should have for their money" ? Disney set the terms and new what they were doing. It's not like they were losing money on it. It's Disney's right to change the plan. It's not whining to say the value has been reduced. It has, period.

It's not whining to say the value has been reduced. I already have said repeatedly it has. Have you been reading the same posts as I have? I'm not addressing the 2 or 3 posts that say "Hmm .. it is my observation that the dining plan's value has been reduced." Terrific. It has. I'm talking about the hundreds of other posts and threads whining about what a rip-off the plan now is.

Look, if someone told me I could get a snack, counter service meal + beverage, and an appetizer, entre, dessert, beverage, and tip at a table service restaurant in the heart of a major tourist destination for $40 a day I would be blown away at the steal I'm getting. When it's been reduced, but still is a deal, I'm not going to cry "rip-off"; it was an adjustment, and a correct one at that. It's still a pretty good deal.

 

[SONNYDNY]

Hope i am doing this right it is my first post. I just got back from from vacation and I used the DDP for my entire stay. This was the second time we took advantage of the program. From what I can see it is still a good deal if done right. It does not bother me to make a choice of appetizer or dessert. Most of the time my family was to full to do both. The one thing I would like them to do is leave the tip included. It just makes things easier at the end of the meal. Plus I know as my vacation winds down and money becomes tighter the tip will drop down to 15%.

 

[daliseurat]

Okay, I have it all figured out. For 2008 Disney needed to look at the Dining Plan and decide how much to raise the price to keep up with the rising menu costs. And they figured out that they were losing some money with the Dining plan the way it was because people were really using it well.

So, first the UNION decided that they didn't want the tip automatically calculated into the equation They figured their members would do better with diners deciding how much to tip themselves. So Disney obliged and took the tip out. Hey, they are already saving some money.

Next Disney looks at all the feedback they get on the Dining plan. Many people seem to have one complaint--too much food. Hmm. So they figure out more people like dessert than appetizers, and appetizers are costlier, so they take that out of the equation. Maybe no one will even notice!

Disney now realizes that they don't have to raise the price at all, they just shaved about 10-15 dollars from the plan. So now, they figure, Let's lower the price a buck, and it'll look like we are giving them a better deal, because it's a lower price. And as a bonus, the lower price will distract them from the fact that we took away the appetizer that most people don't eat.

Now they can spin this as still a better deal than if you bought the same stuff without the plan, and point out that their research said that people thought the plan gave the guest too much food, and that the Unions made them take out the tip.

Ahhh. Everyone will be happy. No one will ever complain. I mean really, who doesn't love trying to figure out a fair tip? And who doesn't want to spend a few extra minutes having to deal with the credit card having to go back for approval after figuring out that tip?

See, the real problem is that the current plan is just too good. It's a fantastic deal that Disney can't afford to keep. But after all the discussion here, I have to say, it's still a good deal, as long as you are planning to eat Table Service once a day. But I do believe that waiters are going to get the shaft with tips

 

[Ausdaddy]

It's not whining to say the value has been reduced. I already have said repeatedly it has. Have you been reading the same posts as I have? I'm not addressing the 2 or 3 posts that say "Hmm .. it is my observation that the dining plan's value has been reduced." Terrific. It has. I'm talking about the hundreds of other posts and threads whining about what a rip-off the plan now is.

Look, if someone told me I could get a snack, counter service meal + beverage, and an appetizer, entre, dessert, beverage, and tip at a table service restaurant in the heart of a major tourist destination for $40 a day I would be blown away at the steal I'm getting. When it's been reduced, but still is a deal, I'm not going to cry "rip-off"; it was an adjustment, and a correct one at that. It's still a pretty good deal.

My comment was around you saying people were getting more than they should have. That's just ridiculous. If Disney chooses to provide a great deal, then so be it. Next year they have chosen not to make that available. I agree with you that there is still value and it's not a rip-off. However, I understand why people are complaining. They are looking at things from a relative perspective and you are not. Relative to the 2007 DDP, the 2008 DDP is a dramatic reduction in value. That is a fact. Now, as I said, Disney doesn't really owe us anything and has the right to change or eliminate the plan. Those who used the plan in 2007 or previous years will indeed be unhappy with the changes and I think those are valid feelings. It's human nature to compare it to the "old" days. Your point about it still being a value are also valid because that is a fact as well. Your point is taken.