DHS to Get the DCA Treatment?

[flynnibus]

Why is there an impetus to save money and cut costs when they could be investing and expanding?

Because weak people will always take the easy way and avoid risk.

If I as you boss said "you have to deliver to me 4% better bottom line next year"

What do you do?

Take money and spend it.. HOPING that that investment will pay off what you spend AND improve the bottom line 4%. Taking a RISK..

Or..

Say, youI know your costs you spend on XYZ are big enough that if you can manage to just save a little here and there.. you can guarantee you will save money, and you didn't have to risk any money to do it either! You can pretty much garuntee my boss that 4% improvement on the bottom line and you didn't have to guess, hope, or put your neck on the line to do it. You're a genius!

The second is easier, more direct, less risk, and works.. as long as there is fat to trim. But when there is no fat, you start trimming the muscle.. and you can't do that forever. But if you are Mr Executive that only has to worry as long as this area is his responsibility.. and your ambition is only to appease your boss. The choice is easy.

 

[choco choco]

Yeah, seems odd to me too. The door coaster seems like a pretty fun idea to me, though who knows how the execution would end up. Since it's already largely been developed from what I hear, it doesn't seem like Disney would have to invest much in that aspect and it would pretty much just be the coast to build. I think.

That said, I'd be fine with Monsters Inc Ride & Go Seek as an alternative just to get some more attractions in DHS.

The Door Coaster would cost less than Ride & Go Seek. Ride & Go Seek is a very elaborate dark ride.

 

[ellie-badge]

I would tend to disagree, but to each their own. While I would like some changes in Future World and/or more countries added, I don't think Epcot is lacking the way that DHS is. DAK needs more attractions and Pandora will hopefully answer that, but DHS is the park most in need of a re-imagining and expansion. DHS has some of the best all around attractions, but is just a mess thematically and has far too little to do.

I can understand, and I agree that while Disney Hollywood Studios has a decent selection of attractions, it's still one giant thematic mess. Once the working studio gimmick disappeared, Disney hasn't done a very good job in rectifying or upgrading the park at all and is in desperate need for some love and quite possibly a re-purposing of what it currently is, very much like what recently happened with Disney California Adeventure.

The sloppy theming aside, though, I'm probably one of few here who could spend an entire day at Disney Hollywood Studios. I visit and experience a number of attractions there (Tower of Terror, Rock n Roller Coaster, Star Tours, Toy Story Mania, Muppet Vision 3D... even Beauty and the Beast, Voyage of The Little Mermaid, The Great Movie Ride, and Lights, Motors, Action ). TBQH, if the theming was executed much differently, it would probably be my favorite of the four parks, but just as you said, to each their own.

In my opinion (emphasis on my opinion, as I know many people on here don't feel the same way), Epcot has sort of the reverse problem. Thematically it's a great park, but doesn't have a lot to do. I go on Spaceship Earth, Ellen's Energy Adventure (as it does hold a special place in my heart, honestly), The Seas with Nemo and Friends, and depending on the wait time, Test Track. I normally don't get a chance to ride Soarin' because FastPasses are either unavailable for the day or the standby line is ridiculously long, I don't particularly like the rest of the attractions in The Land, and needless to say I bypass Imagination completely. Also, call me a whimp but I just don't trust Mission: Space, whether it's orange or green.

While I do like to maybe walk around World Showcase every once in a while and have a nice dinner in France or Mexico, this section of the park isn't really my cup of tea. If I happen to be visiting during the Flower & Garden Festival, then I'd invest more time into walking around World Showcase, but otherwise I peruse this section of the park because it's what my parents like to do.

I feel that while Epcot may be strong in the one half of the park dedicated to different countries (which a lot of people love, and I can totally dig and understand that), it's lacking quite a bit in the other half dedicated to edutainment. If they were to put some imagination back into Imagination and re-purpose Wonders of Life, I think that would be a substantial amount of improvement and give young whippersnappers like myself a lot more to do. While the new and (hopefully) improved Test Track might help out for a little while, I think it's time for some bigger changes to this half of the park.

I'm not hating on Epcot at all, I just think it has a lot of unused potential, especially since it's such a classic and beloved theme park to many of us.

 

[MarkTwain]

Because weak people will always take the easy way and avoid risk.

If I as you boss said "you have to deliver to me 4% better bottom line next year"

What do you do?

Take money and spend it.. HOPING that that investment will pay off what you spend AND improve the bottom line 4%. Taking a RISK..

Or..

Say, youI know your costs you spend on XYZ are big enough that if you can manage to just save a little here and there.. you can guarantee you will save money, and you didn't have to risk any money to do it either! You can pretty much garuntee my boss that 4% improvement on the bottom line and you didn't have to guess, hope, or put your neck on the line to do it. You're a genius!

The second is easier, more direct, less risk, and works.. as long as there is fat to trim. But when there is no fat, you start trimming the muscle.. and you can't do that forever. But if you are Mr Executive that only has to worry as long as this area is his responsibility.. and your ambition is only to appease your boss. The choice is easy.

Disneyland seems to be doing okay with its expenditures...

 

[The Empress Lilly]

The sloppy theming aside, though, I'm probably one of few here who could spend an entire day at Disney Hollywood Studios. I visit and experience a number of attractions there (Tower of Terror, Rock n Roller Coaster, Star Tours, Toy Story Mania, Muppet Vision 3D... even Beauty and the Beast, Voyage of The Little Mermaid, The Great Movie Ride, and Lights, Motors, Action ). TBQH, if the theming was executed much differently, it would probably be my favorite of the four parks, but just as you said, to each their own.

I remain absolutely smitten with DHS, and need two days there.

In my opinion (emphasis on my opinion, as I know many people on here don't feel the same way), Epcot has sort of the reverse problem.

I sometimes find myself bored in FW. There's a sadness in that statement, even grief. For when I grew up I considered EPCOT the most magical, most thrilling place on earth. I have not made my peace with its demise. FW is an empty shell nowadays.
WS has fared better, but I am still waiting for them to finish WS and build those rides as much as I was when I walked there thirty years ago. I love my architecture and even some shops and snacks, but the experience would be so much better if I could do a few fun c-tickets along the way.

 

[spacemt354]

I'm not hating on Epcot at all, I just think it has a lot of unused potential, especially since it's such a classic and beloved theme park to many of us.

Exactly. There was a thread about Epcot before and I had the same feeling. A DHS refurb is needed. The themes in the park are mangled and aside from ToT, RnRC, TSMM, and maybe Star Tours, no other attractions pull guests into the park, imo. The other attractions people just do because it is there, not because a billboard out on I-4 or a commercial influenced them to. But in order to generate that excitement, a major investment would need to be done, and a few 'stale' attractions would have to go. It would be a huge multi-year project, emphasis on multi with the rate disney builds things. Anyway I agree with you, Epcot has a lot of unused potential, and it's not like it's a difficult fix.

The buildings plots of land are already in place, they just aren't being used. Wonders of Life could be repurposed to either health or something new. The Odyssey could be utilized for something other than private events. There were initial designs for a peoplemover around innoventions (thats why the ceilings are so high). I think that would be pretty cool. The entire Imagination pavillion could be updated. J into I (maybe back to the original) and Captain EO could be replaced. Universe of Energy could be updated.

See for all these "could be" upgrades in Epcot, most of the sturctures are already there. I liked the SSE update (except for the voice and the descent) but it was very well done. And I am really looking forward to the Test Track revamp as well. I, like you, just wish Disney would try to fully utilize Epcot. It is such an original concept and a fantastic park as it is right now, but with a few new upgrades, it could be on a whole new level.

 

[ChrisFL]

I sometimes find myself bored in FW. There's a sadness in that statement, even grief. For when I grew up I considered EPCOT the most magical, most thrilling place on earth. I have not made my peace with its demise. FW is a shell nowadays.
WS has fared better, but I am still waiting for them to finish WS and build those rides as much as I was when I walked there thirty years ago. I love my architecture and even some shops and snacks, but the eperience would be so much better if I could do a few fun c-tickets along the way.

I agree in some ways, but in others, I kinda like what they're doing in the WS. Honestly its the only "adult" thing that Disney has done recently...making higher quality restaurants and alcohol choices (wine bar, tequila bar, etc.).

Let's really look at FW needs. The Land is still The Land, SSE is still SSE but could use a few things, I don't see Nemo changing anytime soon.

Test Track is already getting its makeover, and Mission:Space...who knows if that will be changed.

That leaves us with Ellen's Energy Adventure and Journey into boredom...err, Imagination. They could also really improve the dark spaces known as Innoventions and bring it back to at least what it was in 1994, since I know we won't get communicore back.

So if they were to make 2 top quality attractions for Energy and Imagination, and freshen up Innoventions, it would go a LONG way toward improving the park.

.................................

Back to DHS, what can I say? I think its always going to be a disjointed park, but that doesn't mean they can't add some high quality attractions. We've already discussed the underwhelming response to Star Tours 2...because they didn't do anything special for it. They should have made a Star Wars land already, and make an Indy land also.

 

[MarkTwain]

Yep.

And all the serious plans I've heard (and they have been approved so to some degree they're planned to happen) involve the Innoventions building, the pizza joint, the EO Theater and land up and, possibly, including the current Autopia queue.

Nothing I have heard from anyone reputable at all says a thing about Autopia and/or the subs being removed and I don't see either happening. Reconfiguring an entrance/exit is a different matter.

Anything on the Rocket Jets platform and/or PeopleMover tracks?

 

[ellie-badge]

I remain absolutely smitten with DHS, and need two days there.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one.

I sometimes find myself bored in FW. There's a sadness in that statement, even grief. For when I grew up I considered EPCOT the most magical, most thrilling place on earth. I have not made my peace with its demise. FW is a shell nowadays.

WS has fared better, but I am still waiting for them to finish WS and build those rides as much as I was when I walked there thirty years ago. I love my architecture and even some shops and snacks, but the eperience would be so much better if I could do a few fun c-tickets along the way.

It truly makes me sad that I was unable to experience Epcot in its full and original glory. If anything, I caught the tail end of its prime on my first trip to Walt Disney World back in '97-'98. I want to say that I at least got to ride Journey Into Imagination once before it turned into what it is now, but I honestly can't recall. I can still remember looking up at the Horizons building and a few of its ride elements before it closed, too. It took my breath away!

I can honestly say that I kinda miss Spaceship Earth pre-refurbishment, too. It's still good now, but I thought it was much more charming and interesting before the refurb.

 

[Beholder]

What disappoints me most about EPCOT's FW is the stagnation. The park started with this glorious, bold vision that was SO different than anything, anywhere. Things change, society and technology evolve, and that's exactly what this park should've done. Evolve into something grander. Bold statements about our future, science, living on an ever-changing planet while acknowledging our past achievements. EPCOT was an OBVIOUS candidate for evolving and ever changing into new areas/visions of "possibilities"!

 

[cba]

When I went to DHS last year, I loved it, but my sister hated it because there was nothing for little kids like her. Hopefully this renovation could fix that problem. Plus, doesn't DHS only have like 17 rides?

 

[spacemt354]

When I went to DHS last year, I loved it, but my sister hated it because there was nothing for little kids like her. Hopefully this renovation could fix that problem. Plus, doesn't DHS only have like 17 rides?

17 or so attractions (only 6 "rides" technically TGMR, ToT, RnRC, TSMM, Star Tours, Backlot) the rest are shows/walk throughs. That needs to change!

 

[Californian Elitist]

17 or so attractions (only 6 "rides" technically TGMR, ToT, RnRC, TSMM, Star Tours, Backlot) the rest are shows/walk throughs. That needs to change!

SIX RIDES?!? Geezus...

 

[flynnibus]

Disneyland seems to be doing okay with its expenditures...

that's true - but that's not really relevant to the question or answer. The question was 'why would anyone do this?' - the answer is .. weak people and culture.

 

[misterID]

So, they've just come up with some Blue Sky proposals and TDO is already cutting things out. Amazing.

I read some Al Lutz bashing, too. Please, TDO NEEDS to be publically shamed. I say thanks to old Al.

 

[RSoxNo1]

You are really, really, REALLY jumping to conclusions here.

You have to understand who Al Lutz's top sources are and what their agendas are whenever reading anything. Beyond that, what he reported is largely true, but also largely not news to anyone who has followed many fan forums (such as this one).

Disney is VERY worried about attendance at TPFKaTD-MGMS (of course, they helped push those numbers down last summer when they were closing the park three days a week at 7 p.m. too!) It is by far the park most vulnerable to getting dropped by visitors in favor of other Disney parks as well as UNI and SW parks. They know something must be done (although they also realize that new eateries aren't going to suffice at EPCOT either) in terms of adding attractions. The park is incredibly stale and that's with two relatively new attractions in AIE and TSMM as well as the redone Star Tours.

But realize that plans have been on the table for many things at the Studios as far back as 2006-07 and none of them have come close to happening. The only way that ANYTHING comes out of this would be if Burbank again steps in and pulls rank, much as they did with the modest (and, yes, to all the folks drowning in drool puddles, that's all it is) Fantasyland expansion (which does NOT feature the type of detailing that DCA 2.0 does, even though I've seen that tossed around here often of late).

TDO hasn't wanted to do the relatively cheap Monsters coaster, an upgrade to Fantasmic, adding a Pixar spinner and a new parade and removing the hat. Do you really see them saying we'll spend a billion or $700 million so our stale little park can compete better in an ever-more crowded landscape?

If so, you're very naive.

I don't doubt a single thing you said. If the rumor is $1.5 billion, I'd be optimistic for a third of that. We all know that major investments are needed in Florida. What bothers me is that if TDO keeps saying no and the Big Wigs keep saying yes, why is the current TDO still in place, or at the very least why is the current incentive structure still in place?

Everyone talks about Lutz's agenda (or his source's agenda), but that same agenda helped call public attention to all of the issues in Disneyland that have been fixed in the last decade. We all know Lutz is on Disney's radar as half of Burbank has him on speed dial (how antiquated is that term now?) At this point, I like it when a known blogger or columnist calls attention to these things.

I like your avatar, although I fear I'll never enjoy corn like I once did ... and I always liked my corn!

It's funny, my wife just got great corn at a decent price at the Farmer's market. We also bought some really nice burger patties.

So what you're saying is Disney planted the leak and got *presumably* positive feedback...

...only to revise the plans after they were announced and criticized as being too girly and having too many meet-and-greets?

I actually buy this. It has long been speculated that the original leak on here was a plant, and the change in leadership from Rasulo to Staggs resulted in the change to the final plans.

The Door Coaster would cost less than Ride & Go Seek. Ride & Go Seek is a very elaborate dark ride.

Ride and Go Seek is a similar ride system to Toy Story Mania (the vehicles are the same, but it goes through real sets). I'd absolutely prefer this over a coaster - it would really balance out the demand for family friendly dark rides in DHS.

 

[ellie-badge]

A DHS refurb is needed. The themes in the park are mangled and aside from ToT, RnRC, TSMM, and maybe Star Tours, no other attractions pull guests into the park, imo. The other attractions people just do because it is there, not because a billboard out on I-4 or a commercial influenced them to. But in order to generate that excitement, a major investment would need to be done, and a few 'stale' attractions would have to go. It would be a huge multi-year project, emphasis on multi with the rate disney builds things.

I completely agree, Disney Hollywood Studios is in desperate need of some love. While I enjoy most everything that is currently at the park, I won't deny that a lot of what's there is either very stale or has been there for far longer than it should have been. I would think that one of their biggest priorities is to expand Pixar Place and make it into an actual... place, rather than just a small area with one (albeit very entertaining) attraction.

The most obvious solution would probably be to finally say goodbye to The Studio Backlot Tour and expand the area. Although I'd prefer a couple of individual attractions themed to their various films (Monsters, Inc. Ride & Go Seek, Ratatouille Kitchen Coaster, and an Incredibles Dark Ride seem like a nice variety for the area, as opposed to having two competing coasters so close to each other), getting our own version of Cars Land would still be tremendously better than what's currently residing in the area.

If Disney just took the time and money to improve this small section of the park, hopefully it would finally open their eyes and encourage them to improve the rest of Disney Hollywood Studios.

Anyway I agree with you, Epcot has a lot of unused potential, and it's not like it's a difficult fix.

The buildings plots of land are already in place, they just aren't being used. Wonders of Life could be repurposed to either health or something new. The Odyssey could be utilized for something other than private events. There were initial designs for a peoplemover around innoventions (thats why the ceilings are so high). I think that would be pretty cool. The entire Imagination pavillion could be updated. J into I (maybe back to the original) and Captain EO could be replaced. Universe of Energy could be updated.

See for all these "could be" upgrades in Epcot, most of the sturctures are already there. I liked the SSE update (except for the voice and the descent) but it was very well done. And I am really looking forward to the Test Track revamp as well. I, like you, just wish Disney would try to fully utilize Epcot. It is such an original concept and a fantastic park as it is right now, but with a few new upgrades, it could be on a whole new level.

EXACTLY! Pretty much everything located within this half of the park is already built, all Disney would have to do is dust off the interior and insert new show scenes and ride elements. Yes, if they wanted to do this right, it may cost them a little bit, but I imagine it's much cheaper as opposed to, say, tearing down the entire area and working from the ground up.

The original track from Journey Into Imagination is still there, the upstairs portion of ImageWorks is still there, MagicEye Theater is still there, most everything inside Wonders of Life is still there... and I completely forgot about The Odyssey!

It's just a real shame that so much potential space is either being wasted or completely ignored. C'mon, Disney... we know you love Epcot more than this! Right?

 

[Californian Elitist]

Guys, I know some of you would love for Cars Land to come to Florida but I hope it stays exclusive to California. DCA got off to a really, really bad start and ever since Cars Land came and pretty much saved the entire park, its become the heart and soul. Let it stay in California, please. Wouldn't you want something original anyway? That's why I'm glad Westcot was scrapped. The MK is great but I always hear fans saying Epcot is the best park on the property. I wouldn't want something of the same bloodlines in California, since it very dear to WDW fans.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't doubt a single thing you said. If the rumor is $1.5 billion, I'd be optimistic for a third of that. We all know that major investments are needed in Florida. What bothers me is that if TDO keeps saying no and the Big Wigs keep saying yes, why is the current TDO still in place, or at the very least why is the current incentive structure still in place?

Who said the 'big wigs' were calling for this? Al's article only talks about WDI proposals. WDI doesn't dictate how the parks are ran - they build to suite and fill in ideas when someone says 'we need something over there...'

I don't read anything more out of that article except for someone proposed some big bold ideas.. and TDO wanted something less.

Everyone talks about Lutz's agenda (or his source's agenda), but that same agenda helped call public attention to all of the issues in Disneyland that have been fixed in the last decade. We all know Lutz is on Disney's radar as half of Burbank has him on speed dial (how antiquated is that term now?) At this point, I like it when a known blogger or columnist calls attention to these things.

He's on DL's radar - not so much for WDW. When he is as big a blow hard as he is towards the Florida people.. I'm sure they have a hard time listening to anything he says with any credibility. He plays shockjock with them.. and the base of people he works with and rallies are Cali people.. not FL people, or even largely FL customers!

 

[ellie-badge]

Guys, I know some of you would love for Cars Land to come to Florida but I hope it stays exclusive to California. DCA got off to a really, really bad start and ever since Cars Land came and pretty much saved the entire park, its become the heart and soul. Let it stay in California, please. Wouldn't you want something original anyway? That's why I'm glad Westcot was scrapped. The MK is great but I always hear fans saying Epcot is the best park on the property. I wouldn't want something of the same bloodlines in California, since it very dear to WDW fans.

Oh, I completely agree. I would rather they keep Cars Land exclusive to Disney California Adventure as well, and would much rather have either new attractions or copies of the lesser known attractions from other parks (hence my suggestions in my previous post). All I meant was that if Disney did decide to go the... I don't want to say uncreative, but most "obvious" route by building a second Cars Land in Disney Hollywood Studios, it would still be better than The Studio Backlot Tour, in my opinion.