DHS DHS Soundstage 1 Renovation - Toy Storia Mania expansion

[PhotoDave219]

The issue in my opinion isn't just as simple as the individual ride capacity, it has to do with the role they play in handling the weight of the "World" (pun intended) versus just being another quality attraction for their respective parks. It's easy to sit back and realize that both Soarin' and TSMM are at the low end of the normal E-ticket hourly capacity people eating monsters. The thing is, that major Disney attractions have historically fallen all over the spectrum of hourly capacity. From the Subs at Disneyland to 20k at WDW or even Pan, none of them have been people consuming machines. That's normally perfectly fine for attractions as over time, guest behavior changes and what were once must ride multiple times per day attractions fade into must ride occasionally attractions as new/different/better options come online.

The problems with WDW's Soarin and TSMM are that they ARE carrying the weight of their entire park on their shoulders. Guests that visit either EPCOT or DHS must ride those attractions because there simply isn't enough else that is either new, different, or better to pull them away and hold them. Soarin' and TSMM both work just fine in California because they are both in a park that has many other rides and attractions that pull their fair share of the load or simply there aren't enough of them.

In many ways, adding capacity to either Soarin' or TSMM will compound the overall problems guest face when visiting either park. If more can get on these attractions quicker, they will be back out in the pool of perspective riders. They then will be faced with the same choice of "what to do next" that caused them to choose riding Soarin' or TSMM in the first place. The guest has already decided they would rather ride this attraction once before over the other options... and I believe when presented with the choice again, many will choose a re-ride over the other options.

The fix has to be external to "problem" popular attraction in question. Other options guests deem worthy of investing their time in have to be the solution in the long term. Sure, people may be happier their wait/return time for TSMM or Soarin' have been reduced; but, the park would be much healthier if there was new/different/better options to draw them away and let these attractions naturally fall into the role their capacity was designed for.

If you kept reading, you would have seen that I said you need both expanded ride capacities as well as other attractions to spread the crowds out.

 

[WildcatDen]

The only thing that is 100% confirmed, has already started, but not actually announced is the third track of toy story

How about we spell it confyrmed if it is not actually confirmed?

Or not?

 

[flynnibus]

I get where youre coming from on this, but if you're building a headliner attraction you need it to handle headliner crowds. 1200/hr is not a headliner crowd.

Compromises... TSMM wouldn't have been the same if it was Buzz Lightyear, or doubling up the seats per side, etc. Disney knows going in what these attraction capacities are... they make the conscious choice to accept them. I mean when Walt built the Subs... they knew damn well it would be popular and low capacity.. but show won out.

Also, just like in retail/sales... sometimes too little of a line is a bad thing.

 

[PhilharMagician]

Code name: Confoym'd

 

[PhotoDave219]

How about we spell it confyrmed if it is not actually confirmed?

Or not?

Or i can just stop sharing the things I find out. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[WildcatDen]

Yeah, a pain in the a*** that only works with a ton of planning.

Three "S's" eh? That must be a larger than normal one? But then again, what is normal, who is it for you or me to say?

For the record, without a "Ton" of planning, our last trip was by far the most relaxing as we were not running here and there. It just helps to have an 18 year old who knows how to work these thingies. . .

 

[SirLink]

You're just being ridiculous now. It's centered on a monkey. It's a story about a monkey. The ride is about the adventure of a monkey... who's the center of the entire attraction... no matter how you try to stretch it... It's about a monkey opening a magic box, fantastical hijinks ensue -- in his story... You'd hit a suit over it? How about not visiting this hypothetical place... This wouldn't be placing Frozen in Norway.

I'm not though. The plot includes a monkey, the story is about YOU visiting Henry Mystics House to see his antiquities. The ride is about your adventure through the house. Let us add Tower of Terror from Disney Sea let us rename it the Tower of Mumbai because it features a monkey in the pre-show

 

[WildcatDen]

Or i can just stop sharing the things I find out. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Nope - Not acceptable. You CANNOT just take your ball and go home. It is FORBIDDEN. Speaking of For bidden, any chance we will ever see Four for a Dollar back at WDW?

 

[PhotoDave219]

Nope - Not acceptable. You CANNOT just take your ball and go home. It is FORBIDDEN. Speaking of For bidden, any chance we will ever see Four for a Dollar back at WDW?

Nice call back. And I have no idea.

 

[WildcatDen]

True but not the topic. Those are things that happened afterwards.. Not projects that were passed over in lieu of nextgen being initiated.

Hey, you cannot introduce logic. That is not fair!

 

[WildcatDen]

747s tend to be roomier. And less likely to catch fire...

I actually miss the 330 though. Either way we almost beat the record. 7 hours from MCO to MAN.

You get the chance to ride in a 380? My guess that would be overwhelming?

 

[GoofGoof]

They need both. You need your E-Tickets to be able to handle E-ticket crowds AND you need other attractions to spread people out. You cannot keep them waiting in line for hours. A good, healthy mix is whats needed.

Agreed. I'm not suggesting that just adding a 3rd track to TSMM would solve the problems at DHS. They need more rides too. With this plan it doesn't need to be an either/or. They are both expanding capacity at TSMM and adding additional rides.

The argument I've seen made is they wouldn't need the 3rd track and added capacity at all if they just added new rides. I don't agree with that. The math that you laid out doesn't work. I don't see rides like TSMM and Soarin suddenly dropping in popularity even if there are new additions. In order to allow for the majority of guests to ride the rides and even allow for some repeat rides they need the expansions. After DHS 2.0 is complete crowds will be even larger than they are today. Unless they add so many new rides of a higher quality that there isn't time to ride TSMM demand will be even higher, not lower.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Well the investments go beyond DLR.... there's HKDL, Shanghai and the latest influx of cash to DLP.

WDW is still the cash cow for P&R. And as long as the guests keep coming, theres not much incentive for them to make any new investments..... or such is the mentality that appears.

Yes, I understand all that, I was only referencing the comparison made between DLR and WDW in the exchange that was being had. I love seeing the investments being made worldwide, with particular emphasis on some . . .

All this information does is serve my point that there is no "pendulum" swinging back to WDW. A company that had had and has enough money to invest wherever they'd like has been choosing not to invest wisely in Florida. If it's true that they are approaching a moment where that changes then we should all be excited, and justifiably so.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Yes, I understand all that, I was only referencing the comparison made between DLR and WDW in the exchange that was being had. I love seeing the investments being made worldwide, with particular emphasis on some . . .

All this information does is serve my point that there is no "pendulum" swinging back to WDW. A company that had had and has enough money to invest wherever they'd like has been choosing not to invest wisely in Florida. If it's true that they are approaching a moment where that changes then we should all be excited, and justifiably so.

We're making the same point.

 

[jt04]

You did not say cranes were going up because you had knowledge that they would, you said it because you hoped they would. TDO gets no laughs because they are a business and meeting the demand of their clients is nothing to laugh about. This is not a zero-sum game. Nobody WANTS TDO to be making poor (or worse, no) investment in the Florida property. TDO providing it's guests with good product is good for us, and doing what's good for us is good for them. We get the last laugh because we've been telling them that all along, and it seems only now are they realizing how it will benefit them.

You clearly have no idea how a company, let alone this one, works. If you think we don't see it, you are wrong.

Judging be the increasing crowds, even in a down economy, indicate the customers are happy with the WDW product. That will only improve as DAK's makeover continues, Disney Springs continues to open new phases and Pandora rises in the central Florida skyline. And who knows what the mouse intends for Epcot after Frozen and Soarin? And then of course the Martin rumors concerning the Studios.

So, I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

We're making the same point.

I agree.

 

[mahnamahna101]

Judging be the increasing crowds, even in a down economy, indicate the customers are happy with the WDW product. That will only improve as DAK's makeover continues, Disney Springs continues to open new phases and Pandora rises in the central Florida skyline. And who knows what the mouse intends for Epcot after Frozen and Soarin? And then of course the Martin rumors concerning the Studios.

So, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Animal Kingdom is getting Soarin' 2.0, a family boat ride and a nighttime show. That's not really a true makeover That's 1/3 of what AK needs.

Other 2/3:

1. One more new land (Australia or Mysterious Island) with room for 4-5 attractions
2. Family dark ride in Asia - Everest and Kali both have height requirements, The Jungle Book also happens to have never gotten a ride before... make it happen TDO
3. Total renovation of Dinoland - Dinorama gets bulldozed, DINOSAUR gets a massive refurb, while a Mr. Toad-style dark ride, Ice Age flume, Excavator E-ticket (something closer to the old Geyser Mountain concept on a coaster track) and something prehistoric to replace Finding Nemo. Boneyard gets a few touches. Also a dinosaur flat ride is included - just less tacky.
4. Triple decker animal carousel in Africa
5. Return of Discovery River Boats - the park needs attractions desperately

That's what it would take for me to be at AK from open to close.

Epcot... the Frozen overlay to Norway and Soarin's update/3rd theater are all I expect for the 2010s. MAYBE Imagination and Universe of Energy get some plussing. But I fear TDO will assume Anna and Elsa can solve all of that park's problems.

DHS' future looks bright right now - Star Wars Land, a true Pixar Place (with numerous attractions), removal of the BAH, GMR getting something new (hopefully an E-ticket trackless dark ride... or at least a refurb), potentially a Muppets mini-land (with over $1.2 billion in play... I can't imagine Star Wars and Pixar are the only thing getting expanded), replacements for B&TB and maybe Mermaid, an update for RnRC.

DHS could easily become my favorite Disney park with Star Wars Land, an Incredibles E-ticket, Monsters Inc Door Coaster, a GMR upgrade, and something like the old Great Muppet Movie Ride concept. Or a NBC attraction

Of course, Tomorrowland should hopefully get revamped by 2022 (around MK's 50th)

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I cant find the numbers on TSMM beyond 4 people per car, 6 minutes for a ride. If anyone knows how many vehicles they cycle in that six minutes, you could calculate pretty quick their HRC as well. Either way, the overall conclusion that is drawn is that it simply cannot handle the crowds it draws.

While bored in line I timed the ride in DCA for about 10 minutes one day and they averaged a dispatch every 30-35 seconds, I figured with 16 guests per dispatch capacity was somewhere around 1650 - 1900 per hour.

The argument I've seen made is they wouldn't need the 3rd track and added capacity at all if they just added new rides. I don't agree with that. I don't see rides like TSMM and Soarin suddenly dropping in popularity even if there are new additions.

I think TSMM at DCA is a good example of both sides of this argument. DCA has 23 rides vs 7 at HS yet TSMM still has a 30-40 minute line most of the time. Compared to the 60+ waits at HS this is proof that adding more rides does spread out the crowds but at the same time it also shows that adding more rides doesn't really decrease the popularity for a ride like TSMM.

My opinion is even if HS added more than a dozen new rides (fingers crossed for Pixarland and Star Wars land) TSMM would still justify a 3rd track.

 

[GoofGoof]

While bored in line I timed the ride in DCA for about 10 minutes one day and they averaged a dispatch every 30-35 seconds, I figured with 16 guests per dispatch capacity was somewhere around 1650 - 1900 per hour.



I think TSMM at DCA is a good example of both sides of this argument. DCA has 23 rides vs 7 at HS yet TSMM still has a 30-40 minute line most of the time. Compared to the 60+ waits at HS this is proof that adding more rides does spread out the crowds but at the same time it also shows that adding more rides doesn't really decrease the popularity for a ride like TSMM.

My opinion is even if HS added more than a dozen new rides (fingers crossed for Pixarland and Star Wars land) TSMM would still justify a 3rd track.

DHS also has more people in the park per day than DCA which adds to the problem. I do think DCA is a good example of what wait times could be at DHS once they add the 3rd track. I would think that in less crowded times the ride could have a wait under 30 mins at certain times of the day. Right now if reports are correct FP+ takes up 80%+ of ride capacity leaving just 20% of the current capacity to the standby line. By adding a 3rd track that is 100% standby that would be the equivalent of turning standby into 50% of the capacity of the current ride. 2.5 times capacity should help to shrink the standby lines. You also add 20% more FP capacity which allows even more people to make reservations and skip the standby line. Once the Pixar and StarWars additions are complete and the crowds at the park are even bigger I think we will all be happy to have the extra capacity at TSMM.

 

[misterID]

I'm not though. The plot includes a monkey, the story is about YOU visiting Henry Mystics House to see his antiquities. The ride is about your adventure through the house. Let us add Tower of Terror from Disney Sea let us rename it the Tower of Mumbai because it features a monkey in the pre-show

Official Disney description:
"The story of Mystic Point follows the adventures of eccentric explorer and art collector Lord Henry Mystic, who invites Guests to board the Mystic Magneto-Electric Carriage for a tour of his private museum located within his Victorian manor house. When Lord Henry’s companion monkey Albert mischievously opens a newly acquired magical music box, the enchanted Music Dust inside is released and, a mysterious journey begins."

Albert isn't just in the preshow... He's in EVERY scene of the ride. The story is about a Monkey taking over the ride as he tries to put the lid back on that magical box. You're making it as if he's not important to the story and is basically just a static figure who's presence is merely a bystander. Again, the story is centerd on a monkey hi-jacking your ride and taking you on a fantastical journey... he is the focal point. Lord Byron is literally in two scenes. That's all. The ride is centered around Albert... and his merchandise.