DHS Makeover - What we know so far.....

[DVCOwner]

This is an open news/rumor forum for a reason, there are insiders and then there are people who make things up. You can't ask for people to reveal their sources, that would cost them a great deal and they might possibly be discovered. You are being extremely rude. Take this site as well as the internet with a grain of salt and believe who you want. If you don't have insider information to share, feel lucky that someone else is sharing.

Or making it up. If you have inside information about this and post that it is happening on this site you have already broken the trust.

 

[bakntime]

I don't know if this is considered on topic, but I'll say this about Marni/Martin. I don't ever doubt his integrity. I do occasionally (often?) knock horns with him, and I do occasionally question the objectivity behind the information that his sources give him, but I don't for a minute believe he's just making stuff up.

And he makes flat-out award-worthy videos.

I may play the role of devil's advocate sometimes, in part due to the fact that someone needs to question information, because most people just nod and agree without thinking about it. There are a lot of negative voices about modern Disney, and it never hurts to push the other side of the scales. I do have my share of complaints about the mouse, but I don't bother expressing them, because there are 500 complaints each from 500 different people on here every day, and they've pretty much got that covered. I think that being a voice of dissension in the ranks around here, if only to pry at the loose boards once in a while, is a good thing.

Martin, even if I think it might sound like it sometimes \/ isn't BS-ing us with purposefully fabricated information.

 

[Jahona]

You have got to be kidding me. You think people should listen to all you have to say but you can not say where you know this from, how much the budget was or how much it has gone over, but just you Disney is doing this all wrong. You need to back up what you say with facts or move on.

I'm going to chime in here. It's the reverse cry wolf. a few people on these boards have posted information, vague or otherwise, before any announcement or public information was released. That information eventually came to fruition. If a poster kept seeding misinformation people would then not take them seriously.

 

[cjkeating]

@marni1971 Do you know/have you been told how the budget has been blown? Is it one particular area... or just general cost over-runs across the site? I can't imagine the simulator ride could double it's budget, word seems to be the boat ride has been 'plussed' on its original remit or the landscaping/mountain infrastructure costs were underestimated?

 

[marni1971]

@marni1971 Do you know/have you been told how the budget has been blown? Is it one particular area... or just general cost over-runs across the site? I can't imagine the simulator ride could double it's budget, word seems to be the boat ride has been 'plussed' on its original remit or the landscaping/mountain infrastructure costs were underestimated?

Nothing more I can add at the moment. In some people eyes I've said enough already.

 

[BrianLo]

LOL. It was a new theme park with three lands including Dinosaur and Kilimanjaro (and all the infrastructure that comes with building a new park). And it cost $800m. Now they can barely build 1 E-ticket for that.

Everest cost $100m in 2006 and would easily cost $200m now because of how things are managed. And it would still have a broken yeti.

I'm surprised AK cost that little... How much did WDSP cost? I was under the impression it was more along the lines of 1 billion - which begs the question, why did Paris get so ripped off?

 

[Brer Panther]

Which ones? Ursula is the only striking one.

Ours didn't cost $200m. It didn't even cost $100m. But it still cost too much. Should've been about $30m.

Well, I'm guessing the Ariel in "Part of Your World" was pretty expensive.

 

[DerpDisneyDerp]

Pandora got a ridiculously large budget. It was still blown. What's more annoying the overspend alone would buy more than one complete Diagon Alley. For example.

@marni1971 - Where is the bloat? Is it management salaries? Are there rainforest safari trips for R&D or "placemaking?" Why does a similar expansion elsewhere cost so much less?

It boggles my mind when these exorbinant numbers in the billions are thrown about. My local amusement park just recently rebuilt half the park and installed the tallest B&M coaster in the world for $30 million. WDW could have built an entire roller coaster park for the price of Avatar.

 

[PizzaPlanet]

I'm curious about this new meet and greet. Isn't it a little too close to star tours to be permanent?

 

[danlb_2000]

See, I don't necessarily discredit that notion. I do think that there has to be at least some degree of mismanagement somewhere in this chain. But how much mismanagement of the funds is something that doesn't seem as obvious to me as you're trying to make it seem. When you say that Pandora should have only cost $550M, you can't use Diagon Alley as the measuring stick. It's a Mummy-coaster with 3D glasses (which is basically an off-the-shelf coaster akin to Rock-n-Roller with a few projections added in), plus a short train ride with TV sets, and some buildings. What could those two attractions cost, combined? $100M? Add in a couple streets, some buildings (albeit "nice" ones, but still, construction wise, they're mostly just building facades). $250M makes sense to me there. It's a fairly impressive $250, but it does seem like that's what it would cost, when I look at other roller coasters and 3-or-4-story building facades. There's no landscaping whatsoever ... no grass, no trees, no hills, no mountains, no waterfalls ...

Gringotts is a far from an off the shelf coaster and is much more sophisticated the Mummy. Gringotts is a motion base vehicle sort of like Spiderman, attached to a roller coaster track with tilting track sections. I also think you sell short the complexity of the building facades. Not only are they highly detailed, they are hardly any straight lines in them making them much more complex then normal buildings. And let's not forget the full sized firebreathing dragon. I do think there will be more to Avatarland then Diagon, but I think you are selling the complexity of Diagon short.

 

[Daveeeeed]

No, just an example of how controlled costs can be used wisely.

To be fair flying mountains is going to cost way more than just a 40 foot high detailed and curvy buildings. I went to universal back in January and can say from my experience that both Harry Potter lands were so breathlessly incredible I honestly was in shock, and I highly recommend anyone go who hasn't yet. That being said I could make an incredible small building or an incredible tall building, but like the small one better. In this case Harry Potter being the smaller one I could still like the overall theming more, but I can't deny that overall The tall building is on a much grander and more expensive scale. Pandora may, and probably will be the tall building, and it's cost and wow factor will certainly reflect that, but yeah definitely the cost of these lands should be significantly lower for Disney to make. There's got to be a better reason than because of big bonuses, and WDI not being very good with budgets as many have already mentioned.

 

[Daveeeeed]

I understand inflation, but how is Avatar costing more to build than it cost to build all of DAK in 1998? Good lord.

It's not. I have no idea what number you are using, but I heard that Avatar plus additions across the park plus rivers of light and sunset safaris were all going to cost together around 850m which is about the same as Animal Kingdom's opening day cost except when you take in inflation that number is probably something more along the lines of 1.35b plus animal kingdom didn't have expedition Everest, and honestly by having trees everywhere and not buildings etc. like in Epcot that'll bring the cost down significantly.

 

[Daveeeeed]

I'm surprised AK cost that little... How much did WDSP cost? I was under the impression it was more along the lines of 1 billion - which begs the question, why did Paris get so ripped off?

There is no reason why Animal Kingdom would've cost more for it being with a reskinned clone, a detailed oil rig, and the only truly amazing ride Kilimanjaro Safaris. Landscaping, mainly trees, buildings, only ones that are somewhat impressive are in Africa, so yeah it's budget was pretty much perfect for what it should've cost.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Or making it up. If you have inside information about this and post that it is happening on this site you have already broken the trust.

Martin has been a trusted source on this site for ages. His track record speaks for itself. The likelihood that he's built up a decade+ of goodwill only to waste it now seems a lot less than his postings simply having some round basis in truth.

Doesn't mean you have to believe or agree with what he says, but he's certainly more than proved himself time and time again.

 

[TheScreed]

Gringotts is a far from an off the shelf coaster and is much more sophisticated the Mummy. Gringotts is a motion base vehicle sort of like Spiderman, attached to a roller coaster track with tilting track sections. I also think you sell short the complexity of the building facades. Not only are they highly detailed, they are hardly any straight lines in them making them much more complex then normal buildings. And let's not forget the full sized firebreathing dragon. I do think there will be more to Avatarland then Diagon, but I think you are selling the complexity of Diagon short.

Don't forget all the little magic wand tricks, they definitely add to the ambiance (though of course they generate revenue). I just wish they had spent enough to make the locker room more accessible.

 

[ToTBellHop]

How much over budget? It is like you really do not know, but keep repeating this till everyone believes it.

I've already said $1bn is the ballpark. But they are still building it. Could cost more. If you choose not to believe, why read? Exact number is hardly important anyway. It was budgeted $550 and they've gone way over. Unacceptable. Why does WDI spend so much more than they say?

Why do you think Bruce was fired?

 

[Nemo14]

You have got to be kidding me. You think people should listen to all you have to say but you can not say where you know this from, how much the budget was or how much it has gone over, but just you Disney is doing this all wrong. You need to back up what you say with facts or move on.

You need to understand who you're insulting.

 

[SirLink]

You have got to be kidding me. You think people should listen to all you have to say but you can not say where you know this from, how much the budget was or how much it has gone over, but just you Disney is doing this all wrong. You need to back up what you say with facts or move on.

Business secrets costs jobs that prevents information coming down the line for other projects. Your being not only rude knowing no one with that information couldn't publicly out there

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

With all of the talks about cutbacks, will SWL end up back where LMA is located at this time? It seems like expanding the SWL into the parking lot would costs quite a bit. The only thing that's kind of in the way is The Muppets Is it possible that SWL land starts at Star Tours and goes back to LMA? Hopefully there will be more details coming out soon.

 

[olie64]

I've already said $1bn is the ballpark. But they are still building it. Could cost more. If you choose not to believe, why read? Exact number is hardly important anyway. It was budgeted $550 and they've gone way over. Unacceptable. Why does WDI spend so much more than they say?

Why do you think Bruce was fired?

I'm going to guess they got away with it in the past and had not pressure to stay on budget because of the Nightmare in Shanghai. No that Shanghai is about open and not a a sure than as was stated(I just now following blog, this is what I have picked up) they are laying the law down on being getting stuff done. This happens from time to time in huge company's that feel untouchable, then head rolls and they start figuring it out again, example Apple in the 1990's, without Gates investment they go bankrupt, now they are most profitable business in the world.