Describe California Adventure in a nutshell

[Ziffell]

Also, don't forget that these pictures haven't been Photoshopped or their color saturation edited, so that's part of it.

Wow, that really struck a nerve with you didn't it? :lol:
Relax and enjoy life, man. Nothing is worth getting that upset over.

 

[Ziffell]

I've only been to Knott's once, but I actually really enjoyed it and for a lack of better word found it "charming" -- whereas Magic Mountain is just a huge property full of twisted steel that sometimes more closely resembles a hi-tech junkyard/playground hybrid. At Knott's, like Disneyland, you felt a bit of history surrounding you which was cool. I also thought the park was very well maintained and had some really unique food and shops compared to the competition. Definitely worth a trip if you've never been!

Charming is a perfect word to describe it. Knott's is awesome!

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Wow, that really struck a nerve with you didn't it? :lol:
Relax and enjoy life, man. Nothing is worth getting that upset over.

Listen to the man, TP. Those offhand sarcastic remarks will really affect your blood pressure if you don't get that under control!

 

[TP2000]

Listen to the man, TP. Those offhand sarcastic remarks will really affect your blood pressure if you don't get that under control!

I can just imagine! :animwink:

 

[JLW11Hi]

All this talk about the future is getting kind of weird, but...new 1930s era Buena Vista St.? With Red Car?? And a Cars E-Ticket??? And a whole new nighttime show???? And an actual new Little Mermaid dark ride built from scratch?????

The future looks pretty awesome at DCA. Really, when was the last time a Disney park had this much lined up?

 

[TP2000]

The future looks pretty awesome at DCA. Really, when was the last time a Disney park had this much lined up?

An existing Disney theme park? The additions coming to DCA over a period of 24 months from June, 2010 to June, 2012 are pretty much unprecedented in the modern era.

The only similar situation in Disney theme park history seems to have been 1967 Disneyland, when spread over a six month period they opened Pirates of the Caribbean in February, plus the three new attractions and two reworked attractions opened in a heavily rethemed Tomorrowland in July and August of '67.

The 30 Million dollars they spent doing that at Disneyland in '67 though pales in comparison to the 1.2 Billion they are spending onstage and backstage at DCA, even adjusted for inflation.

 

[Ziffell]

The 30 Million dollars they spent doing that at Disneyland in '67 though pales in comparison to the 1.2 Billion they are spending onstage and backstage at DCA, even adjusted for inflation.

It's necessary to spend that amount just to bring DCA up to par. If it had opened as even a half decent park and had grown more quickly and impressively over the years (like it should have), the money they're now having to invest in it wouldn't have been a necessity.

It's also worth noting that in 1967, DL was already world renowned and was the clear leader in the theme park industry (no one else even came close). It wasn't necessary at all to pump that kind of money into the park like it is with DCA now.

 

[TP2000]

It's necessary to spend that amount just to bring DCA up to par. If it had opened as even a half decent park and had grown more quickly and impressively over the years (like it should have), the money they're now having to invest in it wouldn't have been a necessity.

It's also worth noting that in 1967, DL was already world renowned and was the clear leader in the theme park industry (no one else even came close). It wasn't necessary at all to pump that kind of money into the park like it is with DCA now.

I generally agree.

I've used Edsel and New Coke earlier in this thread as equitable to the marketplace response to DCA circa 2001. But while Ford could make the 1960 Edsel into a 1961 Mercury with just some tweaks to the tailfins and grill, there wasn't much Disney could do with DCA but pump over a Billion dollars into it over a period of years.

It's been absolutely fascinating and very entertaining to watch since I've been following the DCA story from around 1997 to the present.

 

[sponono88]

An existing Disney theme park? The additions coming to DCA over a period of 24 months from June, 2010 to June, 2012 are pretty much unprecedented in the modern era.

The only similar situation in Disney theme park history seems to have been 1967 Disneyland, when spread over a six month period they opened Pirates of the Caribbean in February, plus the three new attractions and two reworked attractions opened in a heavily rethemed Tomorrowland in July and August of '67.

The 30 Million dollars they spent doing that at Disneyland in '67 though pales in comparison to the 1.2 Billion they are spending onstage and backstage at DCA, even adjusted for inflation.

Don't forget the .5 billion they spent even before the expansion. They added:

Aladdin: A Musical Spectacular
Toy Story Midway Mania
Monsters Inc: Mike and Sulley To The Rescue
Playhouse Disney
Fliks Fun Faire
Turtle Talk with Crush
Tower of Terror
Block Party Bash
Pixar Play Parade
the return of the Electrical Parade.

Pretty impressive for a park that was less than 10 years old.

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

It's necessary to spend that amount just to bring DCA up to par. If it had opened as even a half decent park and had grown more quickly and impressively over the years (like it should have), the money they're now having to invest in it wouldn't have been a necessity.

The same claim could be made about both Disney MGM Studios and Diisney's Animal Kingdom. When both opened, they were both basically half day parks. It took several years for both to evolve and grow to where they are today. And many critics still claim that AK is still a half day park. :shrug:

 

[_Scar]

An existing Disney theme park? The additions coming to DCA over a period of 24 months from June, 2010 to June, 2012 are pretty much unprecedented in the modern era.

The only similar situation in Disney theme park history seems to have been 1967 Disneyland, when spread over a six month period they opened Pirates of the Caribbean in February, plus the three new attractions and two reworked attractions opened in a heavily rethemed Tomorrowland in July and August of '67.

The 30 Million dollars they spent doing that at Disneyland in '67 though pales in comparison to the 1.2 Billion they are spending onstage and backstage at DCA, even adjusted for inflation.

Yea, as pointed out, it got that 1.2 billion dollar expansion because the overall park failed to begin with. :shrug:

The same claim could be made about both Disney MGM Studios and Diisney's Animal Kingdom. When both opened, they were both basically half day parks. It took several years for both to evolve and grow to where they are today. And many critics still claim that AK is still a half day park. :shrug:

Do you think both parks have spent 1.2 billion dollars in expansion though? Probably not because they didn't need it.

 

[sponono88]

Yea, as pointed out, it got that 1.2 billion dollar expansion because the overall park failed to begin with. :shrug:

I think he knows that And the park failed according to some people -- it just never got the attendance Disney hoped. Bad word of mouth spread quickly thanks to harsh online critics and 9/11 sure didn't help attendance.

If the park truly had failed, they wouldn't be expanding it and investing so much money in it. They would be re-branding it and getting rid of the Cailfornia theme. The California theme was obviously successful in the eyes of WDI - what they're doing now is expanding that theme and making it more immersive for guests.

For all the others who already loved the park, myself included, the billion-dollars worth of additions are just a nice bonus

 

[Wilt Dasney]

The idea that DCA needs a $1.2 billion expansion just to be a good park strikes me as dubious. If Disney started with a vacant lot and poured $1.2 billion into it, I'm guessing they could come up with a pretty nice park. For DCA to need $1.2 billion just to come up to snuff would imply that the park is in worse shape now than if no park existed at all.

These comparisons are always a little sketchy, but just for fun: Walt built Disneyland for $17 million in 1955, which is about $135 million in 2009. Modern day construction costs for Magic Kingdom and Epcot would be $2 billion and $3 billion, respectively.

I guess what I'm saying is this is a lot of money, especially considering that there's already a park there. It's fair to say the park was a failure as originally conceived and built, but I think it's a little too harsh to say that nothing short of a billion dollar expansion would make it a nice park and use that reasoning to poo-poo the scope of this expansion. Disney could have opted for something a lot smaller in scale and cheaper, but they appear to be dedicated to making this park something special.

 

[sponono88]

Disney could have opted for something a lot smaller in scale and cheaper, but they appear to be dedicated to making this park something special.

Yes. But apparently it's easier to criticize the park as it looked like in 2001 when it first opened.. I'm not sure I understand the reason behind downplaying the scope of the expansion.

Going back to the list of attractions added from 2001-2009, the park has seen a steady addition of attractions throughout the years.

 

[JLW11Hi]

Whatever your opinion of the expansion, I love going back to a Disney park to see lots of new things. The past decade, each trip to WDW got less exciting because of how familiar everything was and because the additions were becoming few and far between.

I was not a fan of DCA when I first went because I didn't like the theming and the attractions were either taken from other parks or just not that great. But here you have Disney actually admitting their mistake and totally revamping the place. And with BIG things, not just smaller ticket attractions.

Here we have Little Mermaid, a new nighttime show, an entire new land with an E-Ticket, a brand new "Main Street" complete with red car, and a re-imagining of an existing land (Paradise Pier) complete with costume, decor, and music changes, all for the better.

It will be the first time I've gone back to a park and seen this many new (and possibly cool) things. That is exciting.

 

[Ziffell]

Yes. But apparently it's easier to criticize the park as it looked like in 2001 when it first opened.. I'm not sure I understand the reason behind downplaying the scope of the expansion.

Here's a concept... how about evaluating the park on how it currently is? I realize that's not an evaluation that exactly holds up, so I guess I can understand. :lol: In terms of "downplaying" the expansion, that's not the case at all. Nothing wrong with being excited in anticipation of the additions. However, it's not possible to say with certainty how it will be until those additions are already in place.

Going back to the list of attractions added from 2001-2009, the park has seen a steady addition of attractions throughout the years.

It's not accurate to say that the park has had a "steady" addition of attractions. "Steady" would indicate that new attractions had been added on a fairly regular basis. That's not really the case. Changes have been abrupt and, as has already been stated and agreed upon by many... the changes are ones that have been desperately needed in order to bring DCA to a level that puts it just barely on a par with other Disney parks. Still has a long way to go though. :wave:

 

[TP2000]

It's not accurate to say that the park has had a "steady" addition of attractions. "Steady" would indicate that new attractions had been added on a fairly regular basis. That's not really the case. Changes have been abrupt and, as has already been stated and agreed upon by many... the changes are ones that have been desperately needed in order to bring DCA to a level that puts it just barely on a par with other Disney parks. Still has a long way to go though. :wave:

I love lists, so let's go for it! Let's just count major parades/shows and attractions, and we'll bypass seasonal stuff like Food & Wine, XGames, Rockin' The Bay, etc. We'll use all four WDW theme parks as the comparison here for this one.

2001
DCA - Electrical Parade, Millionaire
WDW - Millionaire, Playhouse Disney, Magic Carpets of Aladdin

2002
DCA - Power of Blast
WDW - Journey Into Imagination With Figment

2003
DCA - Flik's Fun Fair (4 "Fantasyland style" attractions), Aladdin A Musical Spectacular
WDW - Mission Space, Mickey's Philharmagic

2004
DCA - Tower of Terror, Playhouse Disney
WDW - Stitch's Great Escape, Turtle Talk With Crush

2005
DCA - Monsters Inc. Mike & Sulley To the Rescue!, Turtle Talk With Crush, Block Party Bash!
WDW - Soarin', Lights Motors Action! Stunt Show

2006
DCA - Nothin'
WDW - Expedition Everest

2007
DCA - Nothin'
WDW - Monsters Inc. Comedy Club

2008
DCA - Midway Mania, Pixar Play Parade
WDW - Midway Mania

2009
DCA - Relaunched Electrical Parade
WDW - American Idol Experience

2010
DCA - World of Color
WDW - Electrical Parade

Looking at DCA compared to all four WDW parks combined, it was really that post-50th lull in '06 and '07 where DCA didn't add big stuff. But knowing what we know now, it appears that's when Pressler and Harriss and Eisner had been dethroned and a dramatic sea change was happening regarding DCA. They came out of that lull in a BIG way with the Billion dollar announcement made in October, 2007 about the rebirth of DCA in 2010-12.

 

[TP2000]

Here's another fun comparison, DCA vs. DHS when it comes to attractions and major shows:

Disney's California Adventure - Spring, 2010
25 Attractions & Shows
4 E Tickets (Soarin', Grizzly, Tower, Screamin')
16 Lesser Tickets (Midway Mania, Mulholland, Monsters Inc., MuppetVision, Sun Wheel, Redwood Creek, Silly Symphony Swings, Golden Zephyr, Flik's Flyers, etc., etc.)
5 Shows/Parades (Playhouse Disney, Aladdin, Pixar Play Parade, Electrical Parade, Disney Animation)

Disney's Hollywood Studios - Spring, 2010
17 Attractions & Shows
4 E Tickets (GMR, Tower, Rockin', Star Tours)
3 Lesser Tickets (Midway Mania, Backlot Tour, MuppetVision)
10 Shows (Fantasmic, Sounds Dangerous, LMA Stunt Show, Indy Stunt Show, Little Mermaid show, Playhouse Disney, Magic of Animation, Beauty & The Beast show, One Man's Dream, American Idol)

I refused to count silly or minor things like Boudin Bread Factory, Blue Sky Cellar or the I Shrunk The Kids playground, even though Disney wants to claim those as "attractions". I mainly counted rides with a vehicle or theaters where you go and sit down and watch something important.

Where are all the attractions at DHS? The count is even less if you try this with Animal Kingdom, but since that's such a unique park with several walk-through (and quite excellent) animal exhibits, it's not really a fair comparison for either park. But there are very few rides at Animal Kingdom.

What is even more interesting is that there are currently five additional ride attractions coming to DCA in the next 24 months; Radiator Springs Racers, Luigi's Flying Tires, Mater's Junkyard Jamboree, The Little Mermaid, and Red Car Trolley. Swap out the Electrical Parade for World of Color next month, and Aladdin for Toy Story Musical this fall, and the major entertainment package is still the same count but with new stuff at DCA.

In 2012 when DCA has around 30 attractions and several major entertainment spectaculars going, DCA is getting close to being on par with Magic Kingdom when it comes to rides and shows. A shocking realization for many, I am sure!

 

[TP2000]

Where this gets really interesting is when you add the massive list at Disneyland to the growing list at DCA, and the Attraction/Show race is neck and neck between WDW's four parks vs. DLR's two parks!

 

[Ziffell]

I refused to count silly or minor things

Really? Because in your "exhaustive list" in your previous post, that's exactly what you did. :lol: I'm still laughing at some of the things you counted on that list. But the funniest were the parades. :ROFLOL: