News DeSantis moves to bring state safety oversight of the Walt Disney World Monorail including suspending the service for inspections

[Brian]

You don’t think at the bare minimum, Christian Ziegler (head of the FL Republican Party) passes along requests (from DeSantis) to his wife?
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The communications between DeSantis and Mr. Ziegler would be subject to public record law, unless he manages to make the case that said communications are strictly personal.

That said, I'm not naive enough to say it's not possible. Certainly it would be harder to connect the dots the more people there are involved.

 

[Casper Gutman]

There may be, but as I said earlier in the thread, the coordination would be subject to public record, and I'm confident there are reporters chomping at the bit to find them. Heck, even if he went to meet with them in person over lunch, it would likely be part of his daily itinerary, which is also public record. Until it's proven, I don't think it's fair to assume the governor or his staff are actively managing the board members.

You continue to ignore the fact that the Florida administration has been caught in multiple very significant scandals and they have gotten relatively little airtime and haven’t damaged the governors popularity in the state. The scandal you are imagining would be barely a blip, because most of his voters would cheer or ignore it.

You asked elsewhere why you don’t get the benefit of the doubt on free speech issues. I suspect it’s because your posts give the impression that while you know what the governor is doing is wrong, you want to avoid considering the broader implications of the actions and still intend to politically support him or someone else who agrees with his actions, and you are trying to find a way to give yourself permission to do that.

 

[Casper Gutman]

More importantly than ending the retaliation, and likely reversing what has already taken place, it will send the message that the retaliatory behavior DeSantis exhibited is not acceptable in the U.S.

I find it very hard to understand how you can believe this in America in 2023.

 

[Brian]

You continue to ignore the fact that the Florida administration has been caught in multiple very significant scandals and they have gotten relatively little airtime and haven’t damaged the governors popularity in the state. The scandal you are imagining would be barely a blip, because most of his voters would cheer or ignore it.

You asked elsewhere why you don’t get the benefit of the doubt on free speech issues. I suspect it’s because your posts give the impression that while you know what the governor is doing is wrong, you want to avoid considering their broader implications and still intend to politically support him or someone else who agrees with his actions, and you are trying to find a way to give yourself permission to do that.

Every time DeSantis says the word "Disney" there's an article about it in the NY Times. I think the Disney situation is different, and of greater interest to the reading/viewing audience of the media, than the other "scandals" you are referencing. As for his base, as a certain orange former POTUS once said, he can stand in the middle of Times Square and shoot someone and he wouldn't lose any supporters.

I do intend to continue to politically support DeSantis for a litany of reasons, notwithstanding my displeasure with his retaliation against Disney's exercise of free speech; the content of which I took issue with, too. It is indeed possible to support a politician you don't agree with on every single action or issue, in fact, it's a practically a must in modern America with the two-party system so deeply ingrained.

Finally, I do not need "permission" to do what I am describing. Just as you all are welcome to despise DeSantis, dislike him, merely disagree with him on this issue and support him otherwise, or anything in between, I am entitled to support him despite his missteps with the RCID (and monorails, since this is the monorail thread) situation. I am likewise entitled to believe that DeSantis was wrong to retaliate against Disney by putting into place a monorail inspection regime specifically targeted at Disney, as part of a broader assault on the company, while also believing that, despite the unfortunate circumstances by which the inspections came to be, some good may come out of them, though I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[celluloid]

Yes, if we ignore everything the governor, legislators, and board members have said and every action they have taken, we can imagine a scenario that is much more “normal.” But why would we do that?

And again, as in multiple other cases with this administration recently, the entire point is to create a THREAT. That’s the vital part.

You don't have to ignore it. But you can find the good in what is happening and feel that it is needed, besides the catalyst. It does not make someone who thinks they are needed a party line feeler. It also does not make someone a Desantis lover to not fear that anything major is going to come out of it.

Don't ignore, but geeze, it is beating a dead horse to just complain about it.

Politicians threatening is sadly nothing new. So he got this thing passed and makes it look like he won something. ugly political smearing does this all the time. It is in no way a good form, but it is not surprising.


Some states have inspections on vehicles that are not even on public roads. Personal private citizen vehicles need to be inspected. Its too controlling for me, but if the person was taking customers on a ride around their property at 150,000 passengers a day, with some visibly and well reported situations going on as icing on the cake, I would understand government inspections.

Desantis won't be governor forever.

 

[Cliff]

I have to wonder....if the Monorail is inspected and is found to have structual defects? Would Disney have the money to even repair it? Or, would Disney just close it all down and live without it?

It could be argured that the Monorail is more expensive than it's worth to the operations. Disney could just keep the boats going and they could even drop down to bussing people from the TTC to Magic Kingdom

Disney finance "bean counters" think like this.

I dunno... maybe the resort loop has high value but the Epcot loop, not much?

 

[Brian]

I find it very hard to understand how you can believe this in America in 2023.

What message would you take from a decisive Disney victory in their lawsuit?

 

[Casper Gutman]

Every time DeSantis says the word "Disney" there's an article about it in the NY Times. I think the Disney situation is different, and of greater interest to the reading/viewing audience of the media, than the other "scandals" you are referencing. As for his base, as a certain orange former POTUS once said, he can stand in the middle of Times Square and shoot someone and he wouldn't lose any supporters.

I do intend to continue to politically support DeSantis for a litany of reasons, notwithstanding my displeasure with his retaliation against Disney's exercise of free speech; the content of which I took issue with, too. It is indeed possible to support a politician you don't agree with on every single action or issue, in fact, it's a practically a must in modern America with the two-party system so deeply ingrained.

Finally, I do not need "permission" to do what I am describing. Just as you all are welcome to despise DeSantis, dislike him, merely disagree with him on this issue and support him otherwise, or anything in between, I am entitled to support him despite his missteps with the RCID (and monorails, since this is the monorail thread) situation. I am likewise entitled to believe that DeSantis was wrong to retaliate against Disney by putting into place a monorail inspection regime specifically targeted at Disney, as part of a broader assault on the company, while also believing that, despite the unfortunate circumstances by which the inspections came to be, some good may come out of them, though I wouldn't bet on it.

I fundamentally disagree. Blatant, repeated, and direct violations of the US Constitution are a deal breaker for me. I cannot possibly imagine another issue that would take precedence. Normalizing such violations will almost inevitably lead to the total abandonment of the enlightenment ideals that are the only thing that give America meaning. It’s the whole ball game.

This is probably why we differ on whether something positive can come out of governmental violations of free speech.

 

[Casper Gutman]

What message would you take from a decisive Disney victory in their lawsuit?

You’ve made clear you’d still vote for the governor despite such a rebuke. So would almost every other voter who currently supports him. Why would he or anyone else in power care about that “rebuke?” Why should they?

 

[Chi84]

What message would you take from a decisive Disney victory in their lawsuit?

The United Stated Constitution won. The first and most important of our freedoms was upheld.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

I have to wonder....if the Monorail is inspected and is found to have structual defects? Would Disney have the money to even repair it? Or, would Disney just close it all down and live without it?

It could be argured that the Monorail is more expensive than it's worth to the operations. Disney could just keep the boats going and they could even drop down to bussing people from the TTC to Magic Kingdom

Disney finance "bean counters" think like this.

I dunno... maybe the resort loop has high value but the Epcot loop, not much?

The Monorail is “Disney” it’s iconic, it brings in the high rates they ask for, for the “monorail resorts”. They’re not going anywhere

 

[Cliff]

Disney has stated that Reedy Creek was it's own entity and was NEVER a "puppet govt" of the company. (As they should) So how is the state disolving Reedy Creek a first Ammendment "attack" on Disney? Disney swears that Reedy creek is/was NOT an agent of Disney.

Disney wants to say that Reedy Creek was NOT an alter ego of the company...but STILL wants to claim that losing it was a freedom of speech "punishment" against Disney. The state simply disolved something that did not "belong" to Disney in the first place.

If Disney DID say: Yes...Reedy Creek was "ours" and it did the company's bidding? Then those "public" bonds are invalid and would lead to a huge securities fraud issue. If those "public" low interest bonds were not paid?...the "property" in WDW (i.e. MK, Epcot, AK and DHS) would have a 1 Billion dollar LEIN placed on it.

So...no!...Reedy Creek has/had nothing to do with Disney and Reedy Creek was 100% it's own entity. Disney is hoping that is the way the court will see it.

If Reedy "was" a puppet of Disney? Oh boy....let's pray that is never goes there....and they dont find any evidence that it was!!!

 

[mkt]

Likely the closest thing they have now are the folks at FDOT who inspect the APMs at MCO. That doesn't mean they can't hire folks with monorail-specific expertise, if they see the need.

That said, I have a feeling many around here would take issue with there being full-time monorail inspectors on the state of Florida's payroll, considering WDW's is the only system they'd be tasked to inspect.

I just can't imagine that there are that many people with that skillset nationally that aren't already employed. I suppose they could just pay JTA employees to moonlight for the state.

 

[Chi84]

Disney has stated that Reedy Creek was it's own entity and was NEVER a "puppet govt" of the company. (As they should) So how is the state disolving Reedy Creek a first Ammendment "attack" on Disney? Disney swears that Reedy creek is/was NOT an agent of Disney.

Disney wants to say that Reedy Creek was NOT an alter ego of the company...but STILL wants to claim that losing it was a freedom of speech "punishment" against Disney. The state simply disolved something that did not "belong" to Disney in the first place.

If Disney DID say: Yes...Reedy Creek was "ours" and it did the company's bidding? Then those "public" bonds are invalid and would lead to a huge securities fraud issue. If those "public" low interest bonds were not paid?...the "property" in WDW (i.e. MK, Epcot, AK and DHS) would have a 1 Billion dollar LEIN placed on it.

So...no!...Reedy Creek has/had nothing to do with Disney and Reedy Creek was 100% it's own entity. Disney is hoping that is the way the court will see it.

If Reedy "was" a puppet of Disney? Oh boy....let's pray that is never goes there....and they dont find any evidence that it was!!!

The Florida Supreme Court considered these issues many years ago and held in favor of Disney. Do you know the history of how and why Reedy Creek came into existence? It’s hard to start explaining all this yet again in this thread - it’s been covered several times.

 

[Brian]

I suppose they could just pay JTA employees to moonlight for the state.

...or poach them. They might have to, it's such a niche skillset.

 

[mkt]

...or poach them. They might have to, it's such a niche skillset.

Will the state even pay enough? I know that in many cases municipalities in Florida pay better than the state government.

 

[Cliff]

I just can't imagine that there are that many people with that skillset nationally that aren't already employed. I suppose they could just pay JTA employees to moonlight for the state.

My guess is that they will inspect simple things like cracks in the track concrete and support foundation. Structural engineers that do concrete and bridges could do that with no trouble.

There are photos circulating around the internet that show cracks in the monorail support pillars (vertical ones) and I guess the state has seen those photos too?

If I was Disney today? Id send crews right now to repair any questionable cracks ASAP before they are inspected by outsiders first.

 

[Brian]

Will the state even pay enough? I know that in many cases municipalities in Florida pay better than the state government.

Remains to be seen. For such niche expertise (assuming they wish to hire inspectors with monorail experience), I'd imagine they'd have to pony up some big bucks. After all, according to my brief Wikipedia search, there are only eight true monorail (emphasis on the "mono") systems in the U.S., and two of them are Disney's.

 

[Cliff]

The Florida Supreme Court considered these issues many years ago and held in favor of Disney. Do you know the history of how and why Reedy Creek came into existence? It’s hard to start explaining all this yet again in this thread - it’s been covered several times.

Oh...so the Florida Supreme court already ruled on this (potential) "public" vs "private" bond status issue? The 1 billion in bonds floating out there is a potential massive problem for Disney...if...Reedy Creek was not it"s own TRULY seperate entity.

Disney's lawyers will push VERY hard to convince the court that Reedy Creek was not...NOT...at all an agent of the company. That is a big part of their argument and defense....otherwise the "public" bonds are a 1 billion dollar nightmare scenerio.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Oh...so the Florida Supreme court already ruled on this (potential) "public" vs "private" bond status issue? The 1 billion in bonds floating out there is a potential massive problem for Disney...if...Reedy Creek was not it"s own TRULY seperate entity.

Those bonds belong to Reedy Creek. Disney can’t be held responsible for them. If anything Orange/Osceola counties would have to absolve the $1 Billion in bonds.