News DeSantis moves to bring state safety oversight of the Walt Disney World Monorail including suspending the service for inspections

[MagicHappens1971]

I saw a poll earlier today showing Desantis 50% Disney 52% taken in Florida this week

Yeah, I found this one as well as another that rated Disney more popular than DeSantis from last year.

 

[Brian]

It’s immaterial. No good can come of governmental retaliation against free speech.

The bill creates the threat, and the THREAT IS THE POINT.

I disagree. While it is unlikely, given DeSantis' public statements, let's say that they get some qualified inspectors on the job and a safety issue is identified with the monorail. Instead of embarking on a full-blown PR assault against Disney, the state merely hands the report to Disney's engineers and says "We found this. Kindly address it within 30 days." No malicious shutdowns, no mafia shakedowns; just a normal government inspection identifying an area of concern.

This is not to say that there are outstanding safety issues which Disney has either not identified or refused to act upon, nor am I naive enough to believe that this is the most likely outcome, again, given DeSantis' public statements. My only point in bringing up this hypothetical is to illustrate that there can indeed, and ironically, be good that comes of government retaliation against free speech.

 

[mikejs78]

would you expect for him to select people at random,

No, I'd expect him to select people who had relevant experience in land management as the law itself recommended.

If Biden has an opening for an appellate court judge, do you think he's going to go asking around the Heritage Foundation for some ideas?

No, but he'd pick people who had passed the bar.

 

[Chi84]

there can indeed, and ironically, be good that comes of government retaliation against free speech.

I hope the day never comes when we’re willing to pay that price, no matter the result.

 

[flynnibus]

How is this (selecting ideologically aligned individuals) different than what any other public sector executive (governor or POTUS) does when making appointments?

Its like you aren't listening to anything those people say in the roles or at their press conferences... they literally talk about the govenor's goals and how they will aid or implement them.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

My only point in bringing up this hypothetical is to illustrate that there can indeed, and ironically, be good that comes of government retaliation against free speech.

There’s just no way you said this.

 

[Brian]

Its like you aren't listening to anything those people say in the roles or at their press conferences... they literally talk about the govenor's goals and how they will aid or implement them.

That's different from full blown coordination with, or as the member I was responding to suggested, doing the bidding of the governor with him directing every move.

 

[Trauma]

The number has gone up and down. The title for the page where you got this information says “DESANTIS MORE POPULAR THAN TRUMP OR BIDEN”.

Remember in the other thread when you said you don’t know anyone who likes The Last Jedi? I’m a Floridian who doesn’t know anyone who supports DeSantis. Does that make this poll less reliable? No. But did this poll survey every Floridian, no. And as the poll shows, his approval has gone up and down, like any other politician.
View attachment 714416
Link to the full poll: https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000187-4a1a-d754-adef-6b7eed270000

Kinda looks to me like since July 2020 it has only gone up.

My point is politicians do what they think will get them elected.

DeSantis will be best friends with Disney the second public opinion changes.

This is every politician.

It’s great that Disney is taking this to court and they should if they feel they have been wronged.

They should have just taken this to the court of public opinion and DeSantis would have gone away with his tail between his legs.

 

[mikejs78]

That's different from full blown coordination with, or as the member I was responding to suggested, doing the bidding of the governor with him directing every move.

I highly doubt that there is no coordination.

 

[flynnibus]

Have we gotten any clarification about how the bill mischaracterized the “special district”? If the wording is wrong, how can this even go into effect?

because even once it's signed into law - it is still a law until someone challenges it in court. And to challenge it will generally wait until it's tried to be enforced in some way.

And it's going to take time before the state even defines what these requirements will be. The law basically just scoped the FDOT to put this in their purview and define standards for the process. None of which has been done. None of which will cause conflict until after all that is done and someone tries to use it.

 

[Brian]

I highly doubt that there is no coordination.

There may be, but as I said earlier in the thread, the coordination would be subject to public record, and I'm confident there are reporters chomping at the bit to find them. Heck, even if he went to meet with them in person over lunch, it would likely be part of his daily itinerary, which is also public record. Until it's proven, I don't think it's fair to assume the governor or his staff are actively managing the board members.

 

[flynnibus]

That's different from full blown coordination with, or as the member I was responding to suggested, doing the bidding of the governor with him directing every move.

What do you want? The watergate tapes of their discussions?

You literally have both sides telling you in public their intent and intent to coordinate... to believe this is just some coincidence of the universe is nothing but putting your head in the sand.

 

[Casper Gutman]

only point in bringing up this hypothetical is to illustrate that there can indeed, and ironically, be good that comes of government retaliation against free speech.

No. That is precisely how authoritarian governments grow and are normalized - they argue for the “good results” of their violations of fundamental principles.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

There may be, but as I said earlier in the thread, the coordination would be subject to public record, and I'm confident there are reporters chomping at the bit to find them. Heck, even if he went to meet with them in person over lunch, it would likely be part of his daily itinerary, which is also public record. Until it's proven, I don't think it's fair to assume the governor or his staff are actively managing the board members.

You don’t think at the bare minimum, Christian Ziegler (head of the FL Republican Party) passes along requests (from DeSantis) to his wife?

 

[Brian]

No. That is precisely how authoritarian governments grow and are normalized - they argue for the “good results” of their violations of fundamental principles.

I have little doubt that Disney will prevail on most, if not all of their demands of their lawsuit. The monorail issue is yet another instance they can point to as a means of bolstering their already solid case.

More importantly than ending the retaliation, and likely reversing what has already taken place, it will send the message that the retaliatory behavior DeSantis exhibited is not acceptable in the U.S.

 

[Brian]

You don’t think at the bare minimum, Christian Ziegler (head of the FL Republican Party) passes along requests (from DeSantis) to his wife?
View attachment 714422

The communications between DeSantis and Mr. Ziegler would be subject to public record law, unless he manages to make the case that said communications are strictly personal.

That said, I'm not naive enough to say it's not possible. Certainly it would be harder to connect the dots the more people there are involved.

 

[Casper Gutman]

There may be, but as I said earlier in the thread, the coordination would be subject to public record, and I'm confident there are reporters chomping at the bit to find them. Heck, even if he went to meet with them in person over lunch, it would likely be part of his daily itinerary, which is also public record. Until it's proven, I don't think it's fair to assume the governor or his staff are actively managing the board members.

You continue to ignore the fact that the Florida administration has been caught in multiple very significant scandals and they have gotten relatively little airtime and haven’t damaged the governors popularity in the state. The scandal you are imagining would be barely a blip, because most of his voters would cheer or ignore it.

You asked elsewhere why you don’t get the benefit of the doubt on free speech issues. I suspect it’s because your posts give the impression that while you know what the governor is doing is wrong, you want to avoid considering the broader implications of the actions and still intend to politically support him or someone else who agrees with his actions, and you are trying to find a way to give yourself permission to do that.

 

[Casper Gutman]

More importantly than ending the retaliation, and likely reversing what has already taken place, it will send the message that the retaliatory behavior DeSantis exhibited is not acceptable in the U.S.

I find it very hard to understand how you can believe this in America in 2023.

 

[Brian]

You continue to ignore the fact that the Florida administration has been caught in multiple very significant scandals and they have gotten relatively little airtime and haven’t damaged the governors popularity in the state. The scandal you are imagining would be barely a blip, because most of his voters would cheer or ignore it.

You asked elsewhere why you don’t get the benefit of the doubt on free speech issues. I suspect it’s because your posts give the impression that while you know what the governor is doing is wrong, you want to avoid considering their broader implications and still intend to politically support him or someone else who agrees with his actions, and you are trying to find a way to give yourself permission to do that.

Every time DeSantis says the word "Disney" there's an article about it in the NY Times. I think the Disney situation is different, and of greater interest to the reading/viewing audience of the media, than the other "scandals" you are referencing. As for his base, as a certain orange former POTUS once said, he can stand in the middle of Times Square and shoot someone and he wouldn't lose any supporters.

I do intend to continue to politically support DeSantis for a litany of reasons, notwithstanding my displeasure with his retaliation against Disney's exercise of free speech; the content of which I took issue with, too. It is indeed possible to support a politician you don't agree with on every single action or issue, in fact, it's a practically a must in modern America with the two-party system so deeply ingrained.

Finally, I do not need "permission" to do what I am describing. Just as you all are welcome to despise DeSantis, dislike him, merely disagree with him on this issue and support him otherwise, or anything in between, I am entitled to support him despite his missteps with the RCID (and monorails, since this is the monorail thread) situation. I am likewise entitled to believe that DeSantis was wrong to retaliate against Disney by putting into place a monorail inspection regime specifically targeted at Disney, as part of a broader assault on the company, while also believing that, despite the unfortunate circumstances by which the inspections came to be, some good may come out of them, though I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[celluloid]

Yes, if we ignore everything the governor, legislators, and board members have said and every action they have taken, we can imagine a scenario that is much more “normal.” But why would we do that?

And again, as in multiple other cases with this administration recently, the entire point is to create a THREAT. That’s the vital part.

You don't have to ignore it. But you can find the good in what is happening and feel that it is needed, besides the catalyst. It does not make someone who thinks they are needed a party line feeler. It also does not make someone a Desantis lover to not fear that anything major is going to come out of it.

Don't ignore, but geeze, it is beating a dead horse to just complain about it.

Politicians threatening is sadly nothing new. So he got this thing passed and makes it look like he won something. ugly political smearing does this all the time. It is in no way a good form, but it is not surprising.


Some states have inspections on vehicles that are not even on public roads. Personal private citizen vehicles need to be inspected. Its too controlling for me, but if the person was taking customers on a ride around their property at 150,000 passengers a day, with some visibly and well reported situations going on as icing on the cake, I would understand government inspections.

Desantis won't be governor forever.