News DeSantis moves to bring state safety oversight of the Walt Disney World Monorail including suspending the service for inspections

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celluloid

Well-Known Member
tissandtully said:
you overestimate the state's ability to do the job better, let's look at the Freefall tower... the state inspected that and for whatever reason, maybe it wasn't often enough, but someone died cause the operators messed with the ride
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If your best point is state should inspect a ride more, than you lost your argument against it. It is kind of a strawman to the point.

There is no guarantee it will be better. But it is a fact that Disney is not operating it as they should on their own.
 
tissandtully

tissandtully

Well-Known Member
celluloid said:
If your best point is state should inspect a ride more, than you lost your argument against it. It is kind of a strawman to the point.

There is no guarantee it will be better. But it is a fact that Disney is not operating it as they should on their own.
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what? No it means they aren't any better lol, they also have no vested interest (financially) to make sure the rides are safe. I trust Disney inspectors more than I do government workers.
 
Brian

Brian

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
Intervene how?
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I'm not sure. I hadn't even heard of the term "spalling" before you used it and I had to look it up. With that said, there's a reason why both the state government and Disney hire qualified individuals to handle structural integrity issues, and not some guy with an MBA that comments on a discussion board.

In other words: they would intervene according to their training and based on their professional assessment of the issue.
 
C

celluloid

Well-Known Member
tissandtully said:
what? No it means they aren't any better lol, they also have no vested interest (financially) to make sure the rides are safe. I trust Disney inspectors more than I do government workers.
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I normally think so too, but if Disney is doing above the minimum, than what concern would there be?

Again, doors and panels falling off monorails in guest areas is not a hypothetical. It has happened. The monorails being past their intended service date is not a hypothetical. It has happened in the last five years far too much.
 
LAKid53

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
Brian said:
I'm not sure. I hadn't even heard of the term "spalling" before you used it and I had to look it up. With that said, there's a reason why both the state government and Disney hire qualified individuals to handle structural integrity issues, and not some guy with an MBA that comments on a discussion board.

In other words: they would intervene according to their training and based on their professional assessment of the issue.
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Under current state law, those parks exempt from state inspectors must use qualified professionals.
 
flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
Brian said:
I'm sure the state inspectors, assuming they are knowledgeable as to structural integrity of concrete, would have intervened in the spalling issue.
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Except the inspectors aren't there with the kind of frequency of Disney, or even bioreconstruct is. Your postulate is dependent on the additional inspection adding something that wouldn't have happened anyway. And there is nothing to suggest the normal process wasn't working . So the entire thing is just a 'hrmm.. this kinda looks like the same thing' argument instead of one of merit.
 
tissandtully

tissandtully

Well-Known Member
flynnibus said:
Except the inspectors aren't there with the kind of frequency of Disney, or even bioreconstruct is. Your postulate is dependent on the additional inspection adding something that wouldn't have happened anyway. And there is nothing to suggest the normal process wasn't working . So the entire thing is just a 'hrmm.. this kinda looks like the same thing' argument instead of one of merit.
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Clearly Disney isn't perfect, just look at Pink and Purple, what a sad story. But I don't have any faith that the state is any better and I'd argue that the monorail is the safest it's been since that incident.

It would be funny though if they just put the Skyliner everywhere, I'd be OK with that.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Brian said:
I'm not sure. I hadn't even heard of the term "spalling" before you used it and I had to look it up. With that said, there's a reason why both the state government and Disney hire qualified individuals to handle structural integrity issues, and not some guy with an MBA that comments on a discussion board.

In other words: they would intervene according to their training and based on their professional assessment of the issue.
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One, these types of inspections are not always carried out by people with the level of expertise you might assumed. In a lot of places, the base level qualifications of architects and engineers are significantly higher than those for plan reviewers and inspectors. Looking quickly, an FDOT Inspector II only needs a high school diploma (Job Posting). That’s not to say there aren’t very good reviewers and inspectors out there, that they don’t learn their jobs and know what they are doing. But they do not have the same training and experience as a licensed structural engineer. Generally speaking, their knowledge and qualifications are not equal.

If an inspector goes to look at the monorail and sees an issue their intervention is not going to be based on their individual qualifications as a structural engineer. They’re going to follow guidelines, and as recent events have very clearly shown, that type of guidance absolutely can be manipulated.
 
flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
tissandtully said:
you overestimate the state's ability to do the job better, let's look at the Freefall tower... the state inspected that and for whatever reason, maybe it wasn't often enough, but someone died cause the operators messed with the ride
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If by 'operators' you mean the park itself... via it's maintenance staff.. yes. The ride had been improperly modified/repaired in the past and no one caught it. Not the park, not the state inspectors. That was more of an issue of the kind of inspection being done wasn't detailed enough to identify the kind of variance that was introduced.

Much of these inspections are "are you running it as the manufacturer has designed it to be", if you are following their procedures, and if everyone is actually doing as intended. They are less about doing the heavy lift inspections themselves and more about double checking work and ensuring tasks are being done as intended.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
LAKid53 said:
Under current state law, those parks exempt from state inspectors must use qualified professionals.
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I’m not sure the monorail counts as an amusement ride that falls under the allowance for self inspection and would otherwise be inspected by the Department of Agriculture.
 
LAKid53

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
lazyboy97o said:
One, these types of inspections are not always carried out by people with the level of expertise you might assumed. In a lot of places, the base level qualifications of architects and engineers are significantly higher than those for plan reviewers and inspectors. Looking quickly, an FDOT Inspector II only needs a high school diploma (Job Posting). That’s not to say there aren’t very good reviewers and inspectors out there, that they don’t learn their jobs and know what they are doing. But they do not have the same training and experience as a licensed structural engineer. Generally speaking, their knowledge and qualifications are not equal.

If an inspector goes to look at the monorail and sees an issue their intervention is not going to be based on their individual qualifications as a structural engineer. They’re going to follow guidelines, and as recent events have very clearly shown, that type of guidance absolutely can be manipulated.
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1. No one with a degree in engineering will accept a job with a starting salary of $38K. This is an entry level position that isn't necessarily doing the inspections we're talking about.
2. Note that additional education and training must be successfully completed in order for the incumbent to pass the probationary period.

The engineers and architects who designed state office buildings were PEs and NAAB certified. Only PEs in the state can sign and seal engineering designs.
 
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C

celluloid

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
Why bother with search warrants? If people have nothing to hide then they shouldn’t have a problem with the police just showing up for a search.
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Again. This is a legal thing going into it. No one is just showing up to shut down the monorails. They would have to be inspected. This is a huge conflation and strawman by you. This is phrased as a classic fallacy. Come on, you are better than that.

Also, there is a version of that, it is called probable cause. Police do not always need a search warrant. If monorails are falling apart, quite literally, one could see it as a good thing that state inspections for such transportation should be put into place.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
celluloid said:
Again. This is a legal thing going into it. No one is just showing up to shut down the monorails. They would have to be inspected. This is a huge conflation and strawman by you. This is phrased as a classic fallacy. Come on, you are better than that.
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There was a speech given saying it! It was just last week. It’s not a strawman. It’s the raison d’êtra.
 

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