D23 - No Big Theme Park Announcements?

[bstiles]

They really need a grand slam to get things going again.

 

[NoChesterHester]

What? They have. Blame the suits for dithering about green lighting or not.

WDI has 30+ attraction overhauls or new builds ready to go - that I Know of off the top of my head - for todays parks if they were allowed.

Don`t blame Glendale. Or WDI Orlando even.

Even in the "real world" most gaps, poor design, and poor execution aren't due to lack of good ideas. There is plenty of creativity. Most issues are due to either a lack of funding or a lack of vision by the people holding the development purse strings.

While it may have it's flaws, WDI is still known as the premier design shop in the themed entertainment industry. There is lots of talent there. I strongly believe that in nearly every case of bad execution someone on the WDI project team proposed either the right or better solution only to have a lack of vision from an executive win out.

I'm sure that even in the low times of park development that there isn't a shortage of great ideas and well developed paper concepts to choose from.

 

[devoy1701]

If they're thinking of selling, (which just sounds sad and we all know what happened when they sold the Disney Stores) why not sell some of the hotels instead of the actual parks?

Maybe they overbuilt? They'd never admit it. If they kept it at the 3 monorail hotels, 2 mods and like 2 values, all that maintenance and upkeep for the others would go to someone else. From what I understand they technically don't own the DVC resorts. Its another company, correct? Why not do something similar with the over glut of hotels?

Especially since the prices keep rising for the guests and people are looking more into staying offsite.

Or could they sell 2 parks? Keep MK and Epcot but sell DHS and AK. Those are the two that need the most work and are 'unfinished'. So sell those, let that other company build them up and put money into them. These two have existed for quite a while now and still remain mostly half day parks. They'd seem to be to biggest money losers to me. So offload them and keep the land rights and whatever else it is they retain in Paris and Tokyo.

That seems like a win/win to me. Epcot and MK are far more flagship WDW parks anyway.

That's exactly what the problem is. It's also their problem in Europe (too many hotels).

With all do respect Tirian, I disagree here. At least for WDW anyway. WDW sees 40M+ visitors a year and without the hotel capacity that they have now, the resort would be doing a lot worse than it is today. 40 sq miles of land doesn't do much for you if it's just sitting there, and those guests visiting need to stay somewhere. This was a big issue when Eisner first came into the company when there were 2 theme parks and only 2 resorts and he was wise to correct it. And with hotel occupancy sitting in the high 80-90% over the past decade, I think that further strengthens by point.

 

[Scuttle]

What? They have. Blame the suits for dithering about green lighting or not.

WDI has 30+ attraction overhauls or new builds ready to go - that I Know of off the top of my head - for todays parks if they were allowed.

Don`t blame Glendale. Or WDI Orlando even.

Man I wish I knew what those 30+ attraction overhauls or new builds were excluding the obvious!

 

[Fractal514]

If they're thinking of selling, (which just sounds sad and we all know what happened when they sold the Disney Stores) why not sell some of the hotels instead of the actual parks?

Maybe they overbuilt? They'd never admit it. If they kept it at the 3 monorail hotels, 2 mods and like 2 values, all that maintenance and upkeep for the others would go to someone else. From what I understand they technically don't own the DVC resorts. Its another company, correct? Why not do something similar with the over glut of hotels?

Especially since the prices keep rising for the guests and people are looking more into staying offsite.

Or could they sell 2 parks? Keep MK and Epcot but sell DHS and AK. Those are the two that need the most work and are 'unfinished'. So sell those, let that other company build them up and put money into them. These two have existed for quite a while now and still remain mostly half day parks. They'd seem to be to biggest money losers to me. So offload them and keep the land rights and whatever else it is they retain in Paris and Tokyo.

That seems like a win/win to me. Epcot and MK are far more flagship WDW parks anyway.

I think a piecemeal sale of the parks would be very unattractive to an outsider. If you're going to run the parks, you want control over all of the components. It's that synergy that makes Disney able to do some of the things it does, both financially and thematically.

As for being overbuilt with hotels, I think that's false. I think they may be overbuilt with Deluxe's vs moderates, but I don't think they are overbuilt in general. They need those hotel rooms to ensure they get the money, not a third-party.

 

[MUTZIE77]

I guess I'm naive. But I just can't imagine any person who's part of the Disney company wanting to sell the parks. The parks are so much a part of the company's identity. The Castle is the movie division's logo! I'm just stunned that there is a real desire somewhere in the company to sell Disneyland. It makes me sick. Disney really is dead if that happens. Maybe it's been dead for years, the magic that made it special, and I've been kidding myself. Maybe a lot of us have been kidding ourselves. Yes, it's a corporation, but somewhere in that corporation, for a while at least, there was still a trace of Walt's spirit. I guess it's gone, and has been gone, for some time now. I hate the suits that run the place now, who could even consider such a thing. If the parks are so difficult to manage and wring profit from, then why the heck did they keep building so many of them all over the world? It's just stupid. This whole thing is more than sad, it's tragic, it's greedy and it's un-Disney. I don't give a crap what Wall Street would think, what would Main Street think, if the parks were sold? I think a lot of people would be horrified. I still think it would be a PR disaster. Budweiser? Budweiser was beer! Who cares who owns that company? And the idea that a sale could be good for the parks...come on. Look at the Chrysler car company. It was doing well, was selling cars and had no debt and a surplus when it was sold to Daimler (by a greedy exec who wanted a platinum parachute). Daimler, even though it too was a car company, ran the brand into the ground (or off the road, as it were) and now Fiat has the company and who knows what will happen. Why shouldn't the same thing happen to the parks if somebody else, even someone in the park business, bought them? Things could easily get worse. Disneyland had a vision behind it, and it wasn't focused on money. If Disney insiders don't have that vision, there's very little chance a foreign investor would.

Isn't there ANYONE in the Disney company that cares about its legacy of creativity and innovation? Is it all just various properties now to be sold off at a profit?

Wow it is as if you were reading my exact thoughts. The idea seriously gives me a weird feeling in my stomach. The worst part about it is that there is no Disney family member that is involved enough with the company to stop it. Disneyland is Walt's brainchild, so was WDW.

 

[jt04]

Wow it is as if you were reading my exact thoughts. The idea seriously gives me a weird feeling in my stomach. The worst part about it is that there is no Disney family member that is involved enough with the company to stop it. Disneyland is Walt's brainchild, so was WDW.

Iger has a much better relationship with Walt's folks than his predecessor and I believe that he and people like Lasseter have their trust. They seem genuine about protecting the legacy rather than burying it.

I will also repeat that I can't ever see the WDC selling DL or the MK. Or even the MK area resorts for that matter. Too much of a cash cow and too important to the rest of the divisions.

 

[Computer Magic]

Wow it is as if you were reading my exact thoughts. The idea seriously gives me a weird feeling in my stomach. The worst part about it is that there is no Disney family member that is involved enough with the company to stop it. Disneyland is Walt's brainchild, so was WDW.

What if a Disney family member could bring a team together to buy P&R? Would this change people's mind?

 

[Computer Magic]

Iger has a much better relationship with Walt's folks than his predecessor and I believe that he and people like Lasseter have their trust. They seem genuine about protecting the legacy rather than burying it.

I will also repeat that I can't ever see the WDC selling DL or the MK. Or even the MK area resorts for that matter. Too much of a cash cow and too important to the rest of the divisions.

Iger has done a good job of mending fences of those torn down by Eisner, Steve (Pixar), Lucas, etc.

 

[Zummi Gummi]

I will also repeat that I can't ever see the WDC selling DL or the MK. Or even the MK area resorts for that matter. Too much of a cash cow and too important to the rest of the divisions.

As has been pointed out in numerous other threads on the subject, the parks are actually not a cash cow and have very small profit margins compared to other arms of the company. That's exactly why the entire idea of a potential sale is even being discussed.

 

[Alektronic]

What? They have. Blame the suits for dithering about green lighting or not.

WDI has 30+ attraction overhauls or new builds ready to go - that I Know of off the top of my head - for todays parks if they were allowed.

Don`t blame Glendale. Or WDI Orlando even.

There is a lot more than that if you include overhauls or replacements and there is plenty of new projects just waiting to be funded.

 

[Alektronic]

Even in the "real world" most gaps, poor design, and poor execution aren't due to lack of good ideas. There is plenty of creativity. Most issues are due to either a lack of funding or a lack of vision by the people holding the development purse strings.

While it may have it's flaws, WDI is still known as the premier design shop in the themed entertainment industry. There is lots of talent there. I strongly believe that in nearly every case of bad execution someone on the WDI project team proposed either the right or better solution only to have a lack of vision from an executive win out.

I'm sure that even in the low times of park development that there isn't a shortage of great ideas and well developed paper concepts to choose from.

There is a division of WDI called Creative Development and that is their function to develop new ideas and new projects. They have their own R&D dept with their own budget, but if it was bigger, they could develop even more ideas.

They developed Lucky the Dinosaur and the Muppet Labs. After they develop them and build a working model, then they are like salesmen, taking their project to the different parks and show them off and then seeing if anyone is interested in funding a new project using that exisiting technology. I know they shopped Lucky quite extensively at Animal Kingdom. They gave AK and WDW management different options like a custom skin character of their choosing like a Carno or Iguanadon or Raptor, etc. They decided they didn't want to develop anything for them, then they tried to shop Lucky at some other parks. Still no go, so he ended back at WDI in Glendale.

That happens with most projects, they have ideas, drawings, concept art, research and blueprints but management doesn't like them so they go back into the idea vault.

 

[jt04]

As has been pointed out in numerous other threads on the subject, the parks are actually not a cash cow and have very small profit margins compared to other arms of the company. That's exactly why the entire idea of a potential sale is even being discussed.

This may be true of some of the parks but only because they have not added anything like TWWOHP in a long time. Everest could have been that but it is not based on a popular franchise and it fell victim to budget cutting that eliminated some of the magic.

The MK and DL parks are certainly exceptions to the rule and practically print money.

 

[jt04]

Iger has done a good job of mending fences of those torn down by Eisner, Steve (Pixar), Lucas, etc.

No doubt and I think much of the new DCA and the FLE reflect Walt's standards.

Well, the original look of the FLE did anyway. It lost a bit of the magic in the process. Hopefully WDI will be allowed to fix some of the 'process errors' with a bit more funds or imagination or pixie dust or something. :lol:

 

[peter11435]

The MK and DL parks are certainly exceptions to the rule and practically print money.

The profit margins are still small. It costs an awful lot to print that money.

 

[Disday]

It's not a matter of how much the parks make or don't make. It's certainly not a matter of pleasing Wall Street. The parks Are the company's brand, or I should say the very symbol of it. However, I don't believe that there is a for sale sign on them, or that anyone has inquired about them. I believe this is another out of control Net rumor along the lines of Night Kingdom and Disney World Texas.

 

[peter11435]

I believe this is another out of control Net rumor along the lines of Night Kingdom and Disney World Texas.

Night Kingdom was far more than a rumor. Just saying...

 

[Lee]

What if a Disney family member could bring a team together to buy P&R?

I'm sure it would...but they don't have access to that kind of money.

However, I don't believe that there is a for sale sign on them, or that anyone has inquired about them.

You're free to believe anything you want. In this case, you would be incorrect.

Night Kingdom was far more than a rumor. Just saying...

True. Well...not far more. It was an actual concept, it just never made it all that far.

 

[Scuttle]

It's not a matter of how much the parks make or don't make. It's certainly not a matter of pleasing Wall Street. The parks Are the company's brand, or I should say the very symbol of it. However, I don't believe that there is a for sale sign on them, or that anyone has inquired about them. I believe this is another out of control Net rumor along the lines of Night Kingdom and Disney World Texas.

Comcast made a 54 billion dollar offer back in 2004 I believe. Don't know if those numbers are correct, but comcast certainly tried to buy Disney.

 

[Computer Magic]

I'm sure it would...but they don't have access to that kind of money.

No doubt Disney family don't have the funds , but what if they had the backing of a prince :lookaroun I'm being so not to start rumors. But my point is there are circumstances where people would accept a sell.

Disney really lacks not having someone with a family tie into the company. But I don't think Disney the company wants that baggage over them hence the reason the family was pushed out.

If people want true Walt go visit The Walt Disney Family Museum.