Stevie Amsterdam
Well-Known Member
Ahh bless you
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News D23 Expo 2022
- Thread starter DCBaker
- Start date
Stevie Amsterdam
Well-Known Member
Oh and: nahtazu
Dan Deesnee
Well-Known Member
They literally gave us their answers at the end.
The problem is the answers will be opening 1-3 years after Epic Universe because Disney can't seem to build anything in less than double the normal required time.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
A lot will either not happen or be drastically changed. It's obvious they are on full panic mode over Epic Universe.
I know this is a bit oversimplified, but what was announced for WDW was mostly concept and blue sky - In other words, Bob & Josh don't have the foggiest idea of what they are doing in Orlando (nothing oversimplified about that, though). This smells like a lot of desperation to show something to get people buzzing and keep the Florida gravy train a'rollin'.
This is why I don't get any hopes up for this management regime. I set the bar on the floor and they still somehow managed to trip on it.
This is why I don't get any hopes up for this management regime. I set the bar on the floor and they still somehow managed to trip on it.
LSLS
Well-Known Member
So, another option. Could it be possible there are some arguing factions going on right now, and this was a group jumping out in front? Maybe there is a group looking for some new major expansions to WDW (maybe in response to Epic Universe, maybe not), and another group against it, and this was a way to put it out into the universe and pressure those trying to push back against major expansions?
WolverineInMichigan
Member
Been a long time lurker, yet being in the State where God's hand left the earth when He formed it... (hint--see User Name 
) I very rarely add to this board as I am a long way from the Parks. However, as a VP of Marketing in the midwest; I am of the opinion they were not unprepared. A Corporate VP does not go into something like this, even with your most ardent fans, unprepared. This was strategic and there are are very simple reasons behind it. Note---I am not saying I concur with any of it. Long term it should be a horrible strategy. Yet Disney seems immune. People, including me, have been saying the day of reckoning will come for years-- and it still hasn't. Yet the reasoning is easy, as the Brits say, to suss out why the panel looked as it did, including the HORRIBLE "blue sky" at the end..
1) PROFIT IS KING! In the Disney of Today-- Push all your chips to the middle in search of cash; "find" the highest price your audience will tolerate; deliberately cut spending on the all but "premium" initiatives; (DCL); Cheapen the experience for those segments of the company that will provide the biggest amounts of profit so that Disney can fund it's "strategic initiatives" (D+, technology, etc)---- The leadership of Bob Chapek isabout driving profits. Full Stop. When posters on the board say--- "Disney cares about Guest Scores" (see the end of HArmonious for example, or the semi return of HEA) they only care if it is a relatively inexpensive fix, and the fix is singular. Meaning Maintenance --a higher ongoing costt-- despite a lot of people complaining about it--gets nowhere near the corporate attention despite bad guest scores-- because it is too high a price for Bob to digest.
2) THE FUTURE IS NOT NOW! Disney is aware of Epic Universe, and they are keeping their gunpowder dry and in storage for the 2024 d23. The WDW world will get a ton of attention in 2024 or 2026 to offset the Opening of Epic. Personally, I would bet a lot of smoke in 2024 to deflect from the opening, with some things beginning to built (on the usual 4-5 year Disney timeline)==and then some more on 2026. I believe Disney siis content to ride on the coattails of Epic Universe... (in Bob's thinking-- "Hey let Comcast do the work of bringing people to Orlando-- I'll get mine and some additional days of yours." ) Personally, I think they looked at the Potterverse--something that out Disney's Disney--- and they only lost 5% or so of market share. I think Chapek is okay with that with his higher price strategy if it happens again, Very dangerous thinking--- but see Point 1! New things will be built to open by 2028/2030.
3) SOMETIMES YOU MISFIRE. The truth behind the strange panel? They thought they could get away with it. In a condescending smarmy way, they thought that a couple of songs from Tiana would distract like a bad minstrel show, from the lack of information about Tiana;s Bayou Adventure and other information the audience came for . "But we showed a model" and "Hey 63 other characters" (which probably includes a rock along the river, lol). The Disney of Today values their best clients-- they just value corporate profits wayyyyyy more. Disney values their Bonuses more. They value Synergy more, They value their ideologies more. They value almost everything more than their theme park fans. The panel disrespected the audience that attended--- except for the plants who were there on company dime,
) I very rarely add to this board as I am a long way from the Parks. However, as a VP of Marketing in the midwest; I am of the opinion they were not unprepared. A Corporate VP does not go into something like this, even with your most ardent fans, unprepared. This was strategic and there are are very simple reasons behind it. Note---I am not saying I concur with any of it. Long term it should be a horrible strategy. Yet Disney seems immune. People, including me, have been saying the day of reckoning will come for years-- and it still hasn't. Yet the reasoning is easy, as the Brits say, to suss out why the panel looked as it did, including the HORRIBLE "blue sky" at the end..1) PROFIT IS KING! In the Disney of Today-- Push all your chips to the middle in search of cash; "find" the highest price your audience will tolerate; deliberately cut spending on the all but "premium" initiatives; (DCL); Cheapen the experience for those segments of the company that will provide the biggest amounts of profit so that Disney can fund it's "strategic initiatives" (D+, technology, etc)---- The leadership of Bob Chapek isabout driving profits. Full Stop. When posters on the board say--- "Disney cares about Guest Scores" (see the end of HArmonious for example, or the semi return of HEA) they only care if it is a relatively inexpensive fix, and the fix is singular. Meaning Maintenance --a higher ongoing costt-- despite a lot of people complaining about it--gets nowhere near the corporate attention despite bad guest scores-- because it is too high a price for Bob to digest.
2) THE FUTURE IS NOT NOW! Disney is aware of Epic Universe, and they are keeping their gunpowder dry and in storage for the 2024 d23. The WDW world will get a ton of attention in 2024 or 2026 to offset the Opening of Epic. Personally, I would bet a lot of smoke in 2024 to deflect from the opening, with some things beginning to built (on the usual 4-5 year Disney timeline)==and then some more on 2026. I believe Disney siis content to ride on the coattails of Epic Universe... (in Bob's thinking-- "Hey let Comcast do the work of bringing people to Orlando-- I'll get mine and some additional days of yours." ) Personally, I think they looked at the Potterverse--something that out Disney's Disney--- and they only lost 5% or so of market share. I think Chapek is okay with that with his higher price strategy if it happens again, Very dangerous thinking--- but see Point 1! New things will be built to open by 2028/2030.
3) SOMETIMES YOU MISFIRE. The truth behind the strange panel? They thought they could get away with it. In a condescending smarmy way, they thought that a couple of songs from Tiana would distract like a bad minstrel show, from the lack of information about Tiana;s Bayou Adventure and other information the audience came for . "But we showed a model" and "Hey 63 other characters" (which probably includes a rock along the river, lol). The Disney of Today values their best clients-- they just value corporate profits wayyyyyy more. Disney values their Bonuses more. They value Synergy more, They value their ideologies more. They value almost everything more than their theme park fans. The panel disrespected the audience that attended--- except for the plants who were there on company dime,
Tha Realest
Well-Known Member
I am not sure D'Amaro - who's been a loyal lieutenant for Chapek from the outset - went rogue at the end of a massive public presentation with the creative heads of Walt Disney Animation and WDI
mattpeto
Well-Known Member
If you were playing with the D23 Odds workbook here are the winners:
These were the ties (you get your bet money back):
This was a WDW Odds sheet, but I'll throw your bet money back your way for Mando/Hulk featured part of the Expo.
| Line Item | Type | Type | Odds |
| Magic Kingdom | Details | Splash Mountain to Tiana Details | 0.25 to 1 |
| Magic Kingdom | Opening | TRON Lightcycle Run Opening Season | 3 to 1 |
| EPCOT | Details | Dreamer's Point/Epcot Spine Update | 3 to 1 |
| Magic Kingdom | Classics - Returning | Happily Ever After will return | 4 to 1 |
| EPCOT | Opening | Journey of Water Opening Season | 20 to 1 |
| Magic Kingdom | New | Nighttime Spectacular | 125 to 1 |
| Magic Kingdom | Attraction Updates | Hatbox Ghost Animatronic | 250 to 1 |
| EPCOT | New | Nighttime Spectacular | 1000 to 1 |
These were the ties (you get your bet money back):
| Line Item | Type | Type | Odds |
| Animal Kingdom | New | Attraction | 10 to 1 |
| All Parks | Meet & Greets - New | Mando and Grogu | 100 to 1 |
| All Parks | Meet & Greets - New | Marvel (any) | 100 to 1 |
| Magic Kingdom | New | Attraction | 125 to 1 |
| All Parks | New | Encanto themed attraction or show | 200 to 1 |
| Magic Kingdom | New | 100 Years of Wonder Fab 5 Costumes | 1000 to 1 |
| Animal Kingdom | Attraction Updates | Dinosaur Rethemed | 1000 to 1 |
| Animal Kingdom | Wild Rumor | Zootopia at AK | 1500 to 1 |
This was a WDW Odds sheet, but I'll throw your bet money back your way for Mando/Hulk featured part of the Expo.
LSLS
Well-Known Member
Oh I don't think he would either, I'm more thinking a bit further down the line. Could be the WDW high ups were fighting against spending a bunch of money on new things, could be designers arguing with accountants about what is the potential of those areas with each other, and one grabbed Josh's ear. I'm a bit of the opinion that Chapek is less involved in the parks than people think.
Dan Deesnee
Well-Known Member
I know right? What a completely bizarre way to end the event. That Blue Sky presentation was not for the guests, it was for investors. "We are working on a response, see."
If Disney was capable of building even the simplest of rides in less than 3-5 years I might think they could get these expansions done in time for Epic Universe but anyone paying attention knows that isn't the case. Maybe they'll surprise us...
matt9112
Well-Known Member
By a multi billion dollar conglomerate that knew more than a lay person that the pandemic would pass. That demand and economic activity would return.
Also they definitely missed out on those negative interest rates…could have borrowed money for free.
Dan Deesnee
Well-Known Member
Didn't they recently come out and say there is an equilibrium they can keep in balance where they DO attract more guests AND keep guest spend at the levels they want? There are always more high spending customers out there for them to attract.
The CFO just said this recently - McCarthy stated that Disney does “not want to have the parks bursting at the seams.” When the parks aren’t overwhelmingly crowded, guests have a more enjoyable time and are more likely to spend more money."
More capacity (space to put people), means more guests allowed in before you hit the point where people aren't enjoying it and spending money. That equals more money.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
I doubt it. I just don't understand this company anymore. Prior to Covid I was interested in visiting with my daughter. Now with the direction they are in it's a hard pass. I know they have always been about the money but they also cared about guest satisfaction. Then again people have shown that Disney can do whatever they want and people continue to go.
el_super
Well-Known Member
Strategic yes, but there are lots of complicated reasons behind these announcement decisions, all the way through to the current business climate and the economy. Even something as simple as announcing a data for Tron, can disrupt bookings. If business is good today, and demand is exceptionally high, there's no need to announce anything just yet.
Additionally the cost to borrow money right now is high, and while they have abated a bit, recession fears and supply chain issues still persist. Disney typically won't want to announce new attractions until they are ready to turn on the money (and usually even after that). It makes sense that they are not ready to turn on the money right now.
I don't know if this is necessarily true and it might even be a dangerous place for fan thinking to go. We've sort of been here a couple times before: people thinking that IOA was going to sink WDW and that Potter was going to force their hand, and netiher of those instances really played out the way people thought they would. Epic Universe could be a great thing for Universal, but make almost no noticeable impact on WDW.
Although I support one could argue that the doubling down on IP in the parks might be somewhat related to that. Maybe.
But all indications are that WDW wants to pare down attendance and stop pushing so many people through. There definitely won't be a fifth park anytime soon, and it's doubtful they will want to make any commitment on attractions to drive attendance until attendance has significantly decreased (of their own accord).
Please, do try to remember that there are multiple definitions of theme park fans. Yes some of them just want more attractions and environments and yet some of them are simply content with character meet and greets and IP content. Not everyone was disappointed and the key for Disney to keep making profits, is to keep the majority of people happy and coming back, even if that spurns the people on the edges.
Some of us are just super excited about Porto's being announced for Downtown Disney for the simple reason that maybe the lines in Buena Park will go down... maybe.
matt9112
Well-Known Member
This aged well.
Dan Deesnee
Well-Known Member
Actually, the reason we have Pandora is because of Potter.
matt9112
Well-Known Member
Yeah I will volunteer for free for escavator duty.