News D23 Expo 2022

[LSLS]

No.

LOL, ok....

 

[MisterPenguin]

This is for all the people who don't latch onto the whispers of an echo chamber as truth, and who aren't ready to believe the worst out of aggrieved schadenfreude, and who question sources and want facts:

Epic Universe is not a threat to WDW

Yeah, there are people who *believe* it. But there are people who *believe* the earth is flat. And repeating a belief over and over again is not the same as reality.

Don't get me wrong. I think EU will be great (hopefully, we don't want another F&F). It will be great for Universal, and it will be great for Disney.

But it doesn't have the ability to make a dent in WDW overall attendance, and most importantly for Disney execs: It won't make a significant dent in its profits. And the dent will be smoothed out in just a few years. WDW will still make billions of dollars each year.

EU is a park with 11 rides. You know what WDW fans call WDW parks with that many rides? "A half-day park." Will it give Universal guests an extra day in their parks and hotels? Yes... A day.

"But it will take away a day from WDW!!" Sure. Or, it will take away a day from Islands of Adventure or Universal Studios or SeaWorld.

Disney has been raising prices to reduce attendance to avoid overcrowding. It didn't work. They still haven't found the tipping point that will drive away guests. And so, the Park Reservation System established during pandemic distancing protocols is staying around. And how do I know this? Because two CEOs have said as much during quarterly business calls, during which, misleading their investors can result in huge fines and/or jail. But you know, the *believers* still believe they lie.

The *believers* say that Disney execs are "shaking in their boots!" Oh, really. And they know that... how? They don't. They have no inside contacts to the C Suite. Someone *presumes* they surely must be shaking in their boots and the echo chamber takes that as the gospel truth and repeats it over and over again... without any evidence.

In fact, our insiders here tell us Disney isn't worried. But the believers scoff at that because... because of what? They have no inside information to counter with. They're just presuming they're right because the echo chamber keeps saying it.

I know this little rant won't change the minds of the believers. But for all you rational folk out there, keep in mind that they don't have the facts to back them up.

 

[Jrb1979]

This is for all the people who don't latch onto the whispers of an echo chamber as truth, and who aren't ready to believe the worst out of aggrieved schadenfreude, and who question sources and want facts:

Epic Universe is not a threat to WDW

Yeah, there are people who *believe* it. But there are people who *believe* the earth is flat. And repeating a belief over and over again is not the same as reality.

Don't get me wrong. I think EU will be great (hopefully, we don't want another F&F). It will be great for Universal, and it will be great for Disney.

But it doesn't have the ability to make a dent in WDW overall attendance, and most importantly for Disney execs: It won't make a significant dent in its profits. And the dent will be smoothed out in just a few years. WDW will still make billions of dollars each year.

EU is a park with 11 rides. You know what WDW fans call WDW parks with that many rides? "A half-day park." Will it give Universal guests an extra day in their parks and hotels? Yes... A day.

"But it will take away a day from WDW!!" Sure. Or, it will take away a day from Islands of Adventure or Universal Studios or SeaWorld.

Disney has been raising prices to reduce attendance to avoid overcrowding. It didn't work. They still haven't found the tipping point that will drive away guests. And so, the Park Reservation System established during pandemic distancing protocols is staying around. And how do I know this? Because two CEOs have said as much during quarterly business calls, during which, misleading their investors can result in huge fines and/or jail. But you know, the *believers* still believe they lie.

The *believes* say that Disney execs are "shaking in their boots!" Oh, really. And they know that... how? They don't. They have no inside contacts to the C Suite. Someone *presumes* they surely must be shaking in their boots and the echo chamber takes that as the gospel truth and repeats it over and over again... without any evidence.

In fact, our insiders here tell us Disney isn't worried. But the believers scoff at that because... because of what? They have no inside information to counter with. They're just presuming they're right because the echo chamber keeps saying it.

I know this little rant won't change the minds of the believers. But for all you rational folk out there, keep in mind that they don't have the facts to back them up.

Of course it's not threat. It's mainly due to the fact that the group Disney caters to is not interested in Universal. Those with kids under 36 inches and those who bring their entire family to Disney who can't ride the rides Universal has. That's a big group.

 

[WolverineInMichigan]

Strategic yes, but there are lots of complicated reasons behind these announcement decisions, all the way through to the current business climate and the economy. Even something as simple as announcing a data for Tron, can disrupt bookings. If business is good today, and demand is exceptionally high, there's no need to announce anything just yet.

Additionally the cost to borrow money right now is high, and while they have abated a bit, recession fears and supply chain issues still persist. Disney typically won't want to announce new attractions until they are ready to turn on the money (and usually even after that). It makes sense that they are not ready to turn on the money right now.





I don't know if this is necessarily true and it might even be a dangerous place for fan thinking to go. We've sort of been here a couple times before: people thinking that IOA was going to sink WDW and that Potter was going to force their hand, and netiher of those instances really played out the way people thought they would. Epic Universe could be a great thing for Universal, but make almost no noticeable impact on WDW.

Although I support one could argue that the doubling down on IP in the parks might be somewhat related to that. Maybe.

But all indications are that WDW wants to pare down attendance and stop pushing so many people through. There definitely won't be a fifth park anytime soon, and it's doubtful they will want to make any commitment on attractions to drive attendance until attendance has significantly decreased (of their own accord).



Please, do try to remember that there are multiple definitions of theme park fans. Yes some of them just want more attractions and environments and yet some of them are simply content with character meet and greets and IP content. Not everyone was disappointed and the key for Disney to keep making profits, is to keep the majority of people happy and coming back, even if that spurns the people on the edges.

Some of us are just super excited about Porto's being announced for Downtown Disney for the simple reason that maybe the lines in Buena Park will go down... maybe.

I mean no disrespect. Yet the bottom line is, for lack of better terminology, the bottom line. For Today's Disney, the bottom line is profits to drive Bonuses, Wall Street stock price and that is all. The days of profits driving the company to "grow the company"and "create more content" are long over. And while there are always multiple variants to any decision, (your point in re: Bookings...) the thought that drives the decisions behind the ordering of the variables and the relative importance or lack thereof is ALWAYS based on Corporate Goals. What is most important? In the end...in today's Disney-- all decisions reflect the CEO's requirements. MORE profits above all else. And if that is to the detriment of everything else, it doesn't matter.

I concur with you. There will NEVER be a fifth park. And the response to Epic will be a delayed one. They will ride Epics increase in tourism (unless there is a massive depression) and accept the extra scraps at their parks. The response will be built by 28/30. (For all the witty posters out there-- that is 2028/2030 not 2830! lol.) However they will start announcing thing by 24/26. Epic is not going to sink Disney. As I noted, I am sure Disney will be okay with a 5% market share loss just to keep pricing high. And will be more than happy to Not invest 5 Billion or so in the parks.

And last, of course they are various strata of customers. Just because 20% of your customers who were not paid plants are overjoyed and happy with nothing more than an upgraded HEA refit does not mean the panel was a "success". They were the home team's fans. The Boo's for Bob were telling. Josh's song and dance minstrel show was not a good look. There are things in life that are evident. Disney just puts value on profits and bonuses more.

 

[LSLS]

This is for all the people who don't latch onto the whispers of an echo chamber as truth, and who aren't ready to believe the worst out of aggrieved schadenfreude, and who question sources and want facts:

Epic Universe is not a threat to WDW

Yeah, there are people who *believe* it. But there are people who *believe* the earth is flat. And repeating a belief over and over again is not the same as reality.

Don't get me wrong. I think EU will be great (hopefully, we don't want another F&F). It will be great for Universal, and it will be great for Disney.

But it doesn't have the ability to make a dent in WDW overall attendance, and most importantly for Disney execs: It won't make a significant dent in its profits. And the dent will be smoothed out in just a few years. WDW will still make billions of dollars each year.

EU is a park with 11 rides. You know what WDW fans call WDW parks with that many rides? "A half-day park." Will it give Universal guests an extra day in their parks and hotels? Yes... A day.

"But it will take away a day from WDW!!" Sure. Or, it will take away a day from Islands of Adventure or Universal Studios or SeaWorld.

Disney has been raising prices to reduce attendance to avoid overcrowding. It didn't work. They still haven't found the tipping point that will drive away guests. And so, the Park Reservation System established during pandemic distancing protocols is staying around. And how do I know this? Because two CEOs have said as much during quarterly business calls, during which, misleading their investors can result in huge fines and/or jail. But you know, the *believers* still believe they lie.

The *believers* say that Disney execs are "shaking in their boots!" Oh, really. And they know that... how? They don't. They have no inside contacts to the C Suite. Someone *presumes* they surely must be shaking in their boots and the echo chamber takes that as the gospel truth and repeats it over and over again... without any evidence.

In fact, our insiders here tell us Disney isn't worried. But the believers scoff at that because... because of what? They have no inside information to counter with. They're just presuming they're right because the echo chamber keeps saying it.

I know this little rant won't change the minds of the believers. But for all you rational folk out there, keep in mind that they don't have the facts to back them up.

I will say, I don't think it's a threat to take over Disney as the top place in the world, but I do think it could sway some folks to change plans. Not by itself, but for the people who think Potter looks cool, but doesn't think that is enough to justify spending almost the same money to go to Universal over Disney, this could push them over.

Now, from what you and others with knowledge say, they don't think that number will be nearly enough to justify a response. I have 0 reason to question what everyone is saying (just because I of course believe companies respond to others doesn't mean I think that always happens, or that WDW ever does). I do wonder if there is a number where there would be concern, or if they aren't even following Universal. I will say, 11 rides seems small, but it also does depend on what else they have. Are there other things like Meet and greets, shows, etc. If they have those things, the number of rides pretty much lines up with everything other than MK.

Everything said, I did think we would get a lot more from D23. Another crazy conspiracy, did they intentionally completely slight WDW just as a show of "Universal means so little to us, we will show absolutely NOTHING to combat." I doubt it, but no idea.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I will say, I don't think it's a threat to take over Disney as the top place in the world, but I do think it could sway some folks to change plans. Not by itself, but for the people who think Potter looks cool, but doesn't think that is enough to justify spending almost the same money to go to Universal over Disney, this could push them over.

Now, from what you and others with knowledge say, they don't think that number will be nearly enough to justify a response. I have 0 reason to question what everyone is saying (just because I of course believe companies respond to others doesn't mean I think that always happens, or that WDW ever does). I do wonder if there is a number where there would be concern, or if they aren't even following Universal. I will say, 11 rides seems small, but it also does depend on what else they have. Are there other things like Meet and greets, shows, etc. If they have those things, the number of rides pretty much lines up with everything other than MK.

Everything said, I did think we would get a lot more from D23. Another crazy conspiracy, did they intentionally completely slight WDW just as a show of "Universal means so little to us, we will show absolutely NOTHING to combat." I doubt it, but no idea.

But the resorts and restaurants at WDW are full, meaning there are people who want to go but can't.

If Joe decides to cancel his Disney trip and go to Universal instead, that means Stacy (who had been previously unable to book because everything was sold out) can take his place. Stacy's money is just as green as Joe's money, so Disney is no worse off.

 

[dreday3]

This is for all the people who don't latch onto the whispers of an echo chamber as truth, and who aren't ready to believe the worst out of aggrieved schadenfreude, and who question sources and want facts:

Epic Universe is not a threat to WDW

Yeah, there are people who *believe* it. But there are people who *believe* the earth is flat. And repeating a belief over and over again is not the same as reality.

Don't get me wrong. I think EU will be great (hopefully, we don't want another F&F). It will be great for Universal, and it will be great for Disney.

But it doesn't have the ability to make a dent in WDW overall attendance, and most importantly for Disney execs: It won't make a significant dent in its profits. And the dent will be smoothed out in just a few years. WDW will still make billions of dollars each year.

EU is a park with 11 rides. You know what WDW fans call WDW parks with that many rides? "A half-day park." Will it give Universal guests an extra day in their parks and hotels? Yes... A day.

"But it will take away a day from WDW!!" Sure. Or, it will take away a day from Islands of Adventure or Universal Studios or SeaWorld.

Disney has been raising prices to reduce attendance to avoid overcrowding. It didn't work. They still haven't found the tipping point that will drive away guests. And so, the Park Reservation System established during pandemic distancing protocols is staying around. And how do I know this? Because two CEOs have said as much during quarterly business calls, during which, misleading their investors can result in huge fines and/or jail. But you know, the *believers* still believe they lie.

The *believers* say that Disney execs are "shaking in their boots!" Oh, really. And they know that... how? They don't. They have no inside contacts to the C Suite. Someone *presumes* they surely must be shaking in their boots and the echo chamber takes that as the gospel truth and repeats it over and over again... without any evidence.

In fact, our insiders here tell us Disney isn't worried. But the believers scoff at that because... because of what? They have no inside information to counter with. They're just presuming they're right because the echo chamber keeps saying it.

I know this little rant won't change the minds of the believers. But for all you rational folk out there, keep in mind that they don't have the facts to back them up.

And along these lines...Pinocchio was really good!

 

[DCLcruiser]

But the resorts and restaurants at WDW are full, meaning there are people who want to go but can't.

If Joe decides to cancel his Disney trip and go to Universal instead, that means Stacy (who had been previously unable to book because everything was sold out) can take his place. Stacy's money is just as green as Joe's money, so Disney is no worse off.

Yup. I think the prime example is DVC. People love Disney with all their heart and soul. Universal is like SeaWorld and Busch Gardens, it's entertainment, it's not a lifestyle.

 

[Big T 1963]

I guess mentioning when the Magic Kingdom Railroad will be up an running again was no big deal? Try telling that to all those families with children who have never rode the WDW train in MK.. Hey kid tell your parents they aren't buying enough food and merch and will consider to announce a future date for the train to open again...

 

[erasure fan1]

But it doesn't have the ability to make a dent in WDW overall attendance, and most importantly for Disney execs: It won't make a significant dent in its profits. And the dent will be smoothed out in just a few years. WDW will still make billions of dollars each year.

I don't think anyone really thinks epic u is a threat to Disney. At least not in the short term. Nintendo is the X factor in all this. It alone could pull a day from Disney. My son, age 13, said he would rather do EU to see Nintendo rather than animal kingdom or the studios. I can't believe he's the only one.

EU is a park with 11 rides. You know what WDW fans call WDW parks with that many rides? "A half-day park." Will it give Universal guests an extra day in their parks and hotels? Yes... A day.

Well 11 rides would beat out half the WDW parks and tie Epcot. So that would make it more than a half day park by this boards standards. The only 2 parks that are called half day are studios and animal.

So it could in fact take a day away. It could also do absolutely nothing if the majority of the rides are mediocre. But if uni hits it out of the park, they take a major step forward in my book.

 

[LSLS]

But the resorts and restaurants at WDW are full, meaning there are people who want to go but can't.

If Joe decides to cancel his Disney trip and go to Universal instead, that means Stacy (who had been previously unable to book because everything was sold out) can take his place. Stacy's money is just as green as Joe's money, so Disney is no worse off.

True, it's very possible that Disney sees no decline for that reason. I honestly have no idea. All I know is the visitor numbers in 2025-2026 could be really fun to watch.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I don't think anyone really thinks epic u is a threat to Disney. At least not in the short term. Nintendo is the X factor in all this. It alone could pull a day from Disney. My son, age 13, said he would rather do EU to see Nintendo rather than animal kingdom or the studios. I can't believe he's the only one.

Most 13 year old boys would already rather go to Universal than Disney. They don't need Nintendo for that, and they didn't need Potter for that. Disney has never been cool, isn't cool now, and will never be cool.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

Was there this week. The ride may be running (we saw the cycles go a few times while on People Mover), but they definitely still have a solid amount of work to do around the outside to make it work for flow. Ton of concrete looks like it needs laid still.

That’s because they need some REAL, Jersey cement guys down there…trust me, THEY know how to pour cement quickly…

 

[Rteetz]

Disney wasn’t worried about Potter initially…

 

[Jrb1979]

Most 13 year old boys would already rather go to Universal than Disney. They don't need Nintendo for that, and they didn't need Potter for that. Disney has never been cool, isn't cool now, and will never be cool.

Agreed. Disney does well with families that have little kids or those families that bring the older generation. They have rides the whole family can enjoy together. That's where Disney excells. Epic Universe isn't going to change that. IMO the impact is going to be felt in the families with teens and older. Adding Epic Universe those families might opt for Universal for 5 days and Disney for 1-2 days.

 

[DCLcruiser]

Most 13 year old boys would already rather go to Universal than Disney. They don't need Nintendo for that, and they didn't need Potter for that. Disney has never been cool, isn't cool now, and will never be cool.

I think it depends on when they first went. If they went to WDW as a kid, then as a Teen, WDW has some cache. Yes, Uni is way cooler for teens/adults, but so is Busch Gardens. Nostalgia and details are what separates WDW from the others.

 

[Rteetz]

I think it depends on when they first went. If they went to WDW as a kid, then as a Teen, WDW has some cache. Yes, Uni is way cooler for teens/adults, but so is Busch Gardens. Nostalgia and details are what separates WDW from the others.

Agreed. As a 13 year old I would’ve chosen Disney over Universal.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I think it depends on when they first went. If they went to WDW as a kid, then as a Teen, WDW has some cache. Yes, Uni is way cooler for teens/adults, but so is Busch Gardens. Nostalgia and details are what separates WDW from the others.

Cachet*

I think the normal trajectory is: Loves Disney as a child... gets "too cool" for Disney as a teenager... comes to re-appreciate Disney as an adult.

*I'm so sorry... pet peeve.

 

[DCLcruiser]

Cachet*

I think the normal trajectory is: Loves Disney as a child... gets "too cool" for Disney as a teenager... comes to re-appreciate Disney as an adult.

*I'm so sorry... pet peeve.

I think I've made that mistake a zillion times on here. Thank you.


You are probably right for many on that timeline. Luckily, adults pay for the trips/merch/food.

Then add in Disney shows/movies/toys and they are hooked. My nieces have a ton of disney toys and watch the tv shows. They will be hooked for a very long time.

 

[Nubs70]

In terms of no expansion announcements, you have to remember the current plan is "less people, who spend more." This does not require expansion to achieve.

"Less people that spend more" is a marketing concept that emerged from B school around 2008 - 2009 as a strategy to increase profit from mature product offering.