D23 Dissapointment

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Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
Yensid1974 said:
This, if all plays out, is another year without any major parks announcements there will be much disgust in the land of the WDW fan.

They want, and deserve, the parks here to be upgraded. No, I'm also not saying they aren't spending any money here, just not in the way most guests would like to see and after all it is about the guests isn't it?
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I guess you are saying that there will be much disgust on this board among WDW fans, yes, among some, but this is a slice of the guests who visit WDW, and not everybody here is enraged that WDW won't get new offerings right away. More guests are visting WDW, spending is up . . . people have voted with their feet, and WDW has bounced back.

D23 attracts a lot of people, I'm guessing the next one will be packed and that most people go because it is a fun convention. Seems like a lot of people like dressing up in costumes and stuff, so I don't think the lack of an announcement on year will mean much in terms of D23.

Assuredly, Disney fans everywhere want their home park to be upgraded. What else is new.

I don't think that will ever change. Not so sure where the "deserve" part fits in. I don't think Disney would do something financially unsound, such as closing Osbourne Lights and 1/3 of DHS to change it into something else to please fans because they don't like the current product. If there is a win-win, build Carsland (or a new land) on de novo (undeveloped) land at WDW, which increases capacity, then I see Disney doing it. Good taste and good business sense often align, but some of the crazier rumors which don't make a lot of sense have stirred up fan anticipation for nothing.

It is not like there aren't construction crews on property building 7DMT. It is not like they aren't planning to do Avatarland.
 
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Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
GiveMeTheMusic said:
The problem with your theory is that Disney isn't paying for more than a fraction of SDL, and doesn't pay for everything at HKDL. WDC is a minority owner in both resorts; financing is a joint venture as well.
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It is not a theory:

The site will cover 963 acres in Pudong, Shanghai, or approximately 3 times the size of the Hong Kong Disneyland Resort, at a cost of 24.5 billion yuan (US$3.7 billion) for the new theme park and an additional 4.5 billion yuan (US$0.7 billion) to build other aspects of the resort. 43% of the resort will be owned by The Walt Disney Company and the remaining 57% will be owned by the Shanghai Shendi Group, itself a joint venture of three companies owned by the Shanghai government[2].

43% of 4.4 billion is 1.9 billion dollars.

That would build about 3 Carslands if the cost was $600 million.

Construction budgets often balloon, too.
 
Next Big Thing

Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
luv said:
I think Dave knows that. He's a big boy and doesn't need me to answer for him, of course. But I think he's aware that Disney isn't just parks.
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I know that he knows too. Which is why I question why he questions the expo when a single panel is gone from years past. We don't know what their plans are until the expo actually happens. I still think there's a chance we see announcements.
 
GiveMeTheMusic

GiveMeTheMusic

Well-Known Member
Pixiedustmaker said:
43% of 4.4 billion is 1.9 billion dollars.

That would build about 3 Carslands if the cost was $600 million.

Construction budgets often balloon, too.
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Parts of the SDL investment are loans as well, so it's not all coming out of the P&R pot. Still less than the cost of NextGen, which has ballooned to over $2 bil - that $2 bil that could go a long way in actual improvements at WDW that would contribute to the bottom line.

Your capex argument makes no sense. Even with Shanghai and HKDL, P&R could have chosen to actually invest in WDW and its crumbling infrastructure, and chose to spend $2 bil on wristbands and wi-fi.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Like I said on MiceChat, not Imagineer allowed to speak publicly will ever divulge real information. I have a hard time getting worked up over this at this time. And while it makes sense to leverage the D23 Expo, it is not law that announcements must be made at the Expo.
 
Yensid1974

Yensid1974

Well-Known Member
Pixiedustmaker said:
I guess you are saying that there will be much disgust on this board among WDW fans, yes, among some, but this is a slice of the guests who visit WDW, and not everybody here is enraged that WDW won't get new offerings right away. More guests are visting WDW, spending is up . . . people have voted with their feet, and WDW has bounced back.

D23 attracts a lot of people, I'm guessing the next one will be packed and that most people go because it is a fun convention. Seems like a lot of people like dressing up in costumes and stuff, so I don't think the lack of an announcement on year will mean much in terms of D23.

Assuredly, Disney fans everywhere want their home park to be upgraded. What else is new.

I don't think that will ever change. Not so sure where the "deserve" part fits in. I don't think Disney would do something financially unsound, such as closing Osbourne Lights and 1/3 of DHS to change it into something else to please fans because they don't like the current product. If there is a win-win, build Carsland (or a new land) on de novo (undeveloped) land at WDW, which increases capacity, then I see Disney doing it. Good taste and good business sense often align, but some of the crazier rumors which don't make a lot of sense have stirred up fan anticipation for nothing.

It is not like there aren't construction crews on property building 7DMT. It is not like they aren't planning to do Avatarland.
Click to expand...

They deserve it because they ultimately are the ones who pay for it, period.

As far as the Osbourne Lights, those aren't even an attraction so can we please stop that argument already. It is a very part time show (not that it isn't a good one because I do enjoy it) which doesn't really have a significant effect on the attendance numbers over a full years time. Oh, and I do hope they find a new venue for it so it can live on, so I am not a hater of it in any way at all. I do agree about increasing overall capacity, but I think you are selling short what can be done with the space provided in the existing confines of the park as it is now. Since we don't have a full idea of what they are considering, they could in theory use the same amount of land now and also increase capacity in a real way. It is all about land use and designing in a way to make the most of what you have. The backlot, soa, and lma property could house attractions that would increase capacity in a significant way over what that same amount of land is providing now.
 
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Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
Yensid1974 said:
They deserve it because they ultimately are the ones who pay for it, period.
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Roughly 48 million guests heading into WDW each year "pay" for the resort, and of course Disney makes a profit. But ticket sales are not a charitable contribution, you pay for time in the parks, you get an entertainment experience, same thing as buying a meal at a restaurant.

After you walk out of the restaurant you don't demand that the restaurant build a buffet because you deserve it. You might get a buy 20 sandwiches, get one free, type of card, but that is to keep you coming in, not because you deserve something special.
 
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Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
GiveMeTheMusic said:
Your capex argument makes no sense. Even with Shanghai and HKDL, P&R could have chosen to actually invest in WDW and its crumbling infrastructure, and chose to spend $2 bil on wristbands and wi-fi.
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There is actually only one big pot of money. Disney is so large than they can choose how to move around their budget, there is no rule whereby profits from P&R are put into a pot which can only be used for P&R. The only reason for a major improvement is if they can make more money, secure their brand (DCA 1.0 hurt the brand), or enter into an emerging market, i.e. Asia. If John Carter did blockbuster business, and if all their movies made $100 million more, then yes, there would be more money to expand the parks, plain and simple.

Even securing the brand is just a way to keep the profits coming in. McDonalds is successful in large part not because their food is good, but because you know exactly what you'll get at McDonalds. A Big Mac is a Big Mac. DCA needed to be a Disney experience.

I know that you'll say that DHS is a disaster, well, the only poll that matters is the number of guets who enter the park, plus this is seasoned with satisfaction surveys. But in the end it is attendance and spending, which are up. Spending even more than attendance.

Of course Disney looks at WDW (an increasingly smaller part of the theme park empire), but realize that they are also looking at growth and to see how certain things shake out, like NFL and Avatarland. No need to go running and tripping all over yourself like the Mad Hatter, planning on a Carsland, StarWarsland and Pixar attractions with everything else on the plate.
 
RSoxNo1

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
So in 2011 they had a Parks and Resorts presentation where the most substantial thing announced was the Fantasy Faire for Disneyland. In 2013, they're opting for... nothing? I don't buy it... something isn't adding up.

Having said all that, I'm really excited that Mickey's of Glendale will be there again this year.
 
RSoxNo1

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
In reading the MiceChat article, the Press Release, and the Disney Parks Blog I really don't read this as "these panels are replacing the Parks and Resorts presentation". Dusty says, "it would appear" in his question to Jeff, but Jeff doesn't explicitly say there will be no Parks and Resorts presentation. Look at the schedule from 2011, 1 Arena presentation, 4 presentations in Stage 23, and 7 in Stage 28:

Arena Presentations:
Friday: 3:30-5 PM
Walt Disney Parks and Resorts
Join Tom Staggs, chairman, Walt Disney Parks and Resorts, as he gives D23 Expo guests a special behind-the scenes glimpse into some of the exciting projects currently underway at Disney parks and resorts around the world.

Stage 23
Sunday: 9 AM -9:45 AM
Imagineering the Dream and the Fantasy Designing for Disney Cruise Line
Building on the classic style of the previous two ships in the Disney Cruise Line fleet, the Disney Dream, launched earlier this year, combines classic early 20th-century design with state-of-the-art technology to create one of the most magical ships on the seas today. Up next: the Disney Fantasy. Join Imagineers Joe Lanzisero and Bob Zalk as they talk about charting the design of Disney's latest cruise ships.

Sunday: 1:30 PM - 2:30 PM
Radiator Springs Reality: Imagineering Cars Land for Disney California Adventure
Cars is on Blu-ray, Cars 2 is in theaters, and now Cars Land is coming to Disney California Adventure (in case you haven't noticed that little bit of construction going on behind Pacific Wharf). Opening isn't until next summer, but now's your chance to look under the hood and see what this 12-acre addition to the park is all about with some of the people that are making it happen. John Lasseter and Roger Gould from Pixar Animation Studios join Imagineers Kathy Mangum, Kevin Rafferty, and Jennifer Mok for a lively discussion moderated by Imagineer Dave Fisher.

Sunday: 3:30 PM - 4:30 PM
The Making of Star Tours — The Adventures Continue
A few years ago in a conference room far, far away (okay, Glendale), Imagineers and George Lucas' Industrial Light & Magic began laying the groundwork
for a new version of Star Tours. If you've been on the attraction (and we know you have), you are well aware the Force was with them. Find out how they did it with Tom Fitzgerald, executive vice president, Creative Development, Walt Disney Imagineering.

Sunday: 5:15 PM - 6:15 PM
MORE of The Wonderful World of Vintage Disneyland and Walt Disney World
While sifting through an old Disney warehouse, Disney archivists came upon a trove of treasures, including hundreds of hours of never-before-seen color footage of Disneyland from the 1950s and 1960s and the early years of Walt Disney World. Ed Hobelman, film preservationist, and Tony Baxter, senior vice president, Walt Disney Imagineering, are back again at the D23 Expo to screen more of this found footage—and provide their always illuminating commentary.

Stage 28
Friday: 9:30 AM - 10:30 AM
History of the Disneyland Hotel
Here’s a Disneyland Hotel history presentation direct from an incredible Hollywood vault! View still pictures (rarely seen by the general public) featuring Walt and
Roy O. Disney, which have been locked away in a vault for almost 30 years. See vintage film footage featuring Walt, the Mouseketeers, the Disneyland Band, Fess Parker, Annette Funicello, the Disneyland Hotel's opening day, the Disneyland Hotel mini-golf course, interiors of Disneyland Hotel rooms, original lobby, and interior restaurants.

Friday: 1:00 PM - 2:00 PM
Now Part of Our World: The Making of The Little Mermaid ~ Ariel's Undersea Adventure
Discover how Ariel and her friends became part of our world at Disney California Adventure with some of the key people who made it happen. Imagineers Lisa Girolami, Larry Nikolai, and Chris Crump take you under the sea and behind the scenes for a look at how this new attraction came together.

Friday 5:00 Pm - 6:00 PM
It's A Small World: Celebrating 45 Years
Join Disney Legends, including Alice Davis (costume designer), Richard Sherman (composer), Walt Disney Imagineering's Tony Baxter and Kim Irvine, and Tony
Perrin from Disney Consumer Products, for a discussion about the art, music, fashion, and more inspired by Disneyland's it's a small world attraction. This session's
attendees will receive a commemorative gift and have the chance to win exclusive It’s a Small World merchandise.

Friday 6:45 PM - 7:45 PM
Voices of the Parks
You may not see their faces, but you certainly know their voices. They're the men and women who announce, talk, sing, chant, and tell you to remain seated, keep your hands, arms, feets, and legs in the vehicle, and permanacer sentados por favor. Meet some of the men and women who provide voices for the Disney parks and the people who cast them. Moderated by Walt Disney Imagineering's Brian Nefsky, senior casting administrator, and featuring the current "voice" of Disneyland Bill Rogers, as well as Brad Abrell, Dee Bradley Baker, Julianne Buescher, Corey Burton, Chris Edgerly, Bob Joles, Stephen Stanton, and Audrey Wasilewski.

Saturday 2:45 PM - 3:45 PM
A Good Look at Buena Vista Street: Sneaking a Peek at the New Entrance to Disney California Adventure
Changes have already come to the entrance of Disney California Adventure, but an even more dramatic transformation begins soon, one that will turn the Golden
Gateway and Sunshine Plaza into Buena Vista Street. Imagineers Lisa Girolami, Ray Spencer, and Coulter Winn provide a preview of this idealized depiction of the
Los Angeles Walt Disney lived and worked in throughout the 1920s and 1930s.

Saturday 4:30 PM - 5:30 PM
Legends of Walt Disney Imagineering
Former Executive Vice President and Imagineering Ambassador for Walt Disney Parks and Resorts and Disney Legend Marty Sklar hosts a whole panel of Disney
Legends, who take a look back at the beginnings of Walt Disney Imagineering, Disneyland, and Walt Disney World—and offer some thoughts about where Imagineering is today. Featuring Alice Davis, Orlando Ferrante, Bob Gurr, and Don Iwerks, along with special guest (and current Imagineer) Kim Irvine, daughter of Disney Legend Leota Toombs and recent recipient of the Themed Entertainment Association's Buzz Price Award, which recognizes a lifetime of distinguished achievement.

Saturday 6:30 PM - 8:30 PM
Imagineering's Guide to Creativity and Innovation
Disney Imagineers are world renowned for turning fanciful and groundbreaking technologies. Go behind the dreams with Marty Sklar and a panel of Imagineers to discover the ways these wizards make the magic real. Joining us for this panel Imagineers Susan Dain, Scot Drake, Josh Gorin, Kim Irvine, Jodi McLaughlin, Kevin Rafferty, Mark Sumner, Dex Tanksley, and Owen Yoshino.
 

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