Cuts coming to every area of parks and resorts - thanks to Shanghai and Paris

John

Well-Known Member
Yes, I know that, but, that isn't reality. His ideals and what the company represented have altered along with the times. The people that currently run Disney, 50 years later, seem to be very successfully doing so. They have no need to be overly concerned about "how Walt would have done it" because it is humming along pretty well without him. Disney is a brand. It's past is the past. New people have no idea that anything was different and those that think they do, have a very distorted memory of how it was anyway. Walt started it yes, but, like others (Henry Ford for example) he no longer has his hand on the wheel. He gave them a base and if we are really honest about it, they have kept to that base fairly close. Look at the parks themselves. They are anything but disasters, they have kept that look and that feel that everyone calls magic. Most of the new visitors have no idea what that means, so what they do see is magic to them.

I think you are wrong....no surprise is it? I think the company is as successful because of what Walt built. The entire place is built on nostalgia. Things that Walt created.....see Mickey Mouse. When CM's go thru training its called "Traditions". Also there are companies that operate true to its late CEO's....Apple is one. It still operates with the same core principles Steve Jobs created.

I think the reason the place is busting at the seems has little to do with what this management team has done. I think its because of what was built over the years. People that say most guest wont recognize changes/cuts are correct. But why do they come? Because of its reputation of what was.....not of what it is. WDW is now geared toward first timers.....once in a life time visitors. Families who have toddlers that now want to take their children to the place where they went as children. The problem is, it isnt the same place.
 

Jon81uk

Well-Known Member
In theory that sounds good, but you will be bored the 2nd time you use your pass. I have done this in the past (from Atlanta too) because we thought there was true value there but simply ran out of things to do.

For me, I can ride the rollercoasters at Busch Tampa over and over again. But at Disney Hollywood Studios I can't sit through Beauty & the Beast or Little Mermaid more than once. Personally I think there is a lot of repeatability at BGT. SeaWorld maybe not quite so much.
 

Brad Bishop

Well-Known Member
For me, I can ride the rollercoasters at Busch Tampa over and over again. But at Disney Hollywood Studios I can't sit through Beauty & the Beast or Little Mermaid more than once. Personally I think there is a lot of repeatability at BGT. SeaWorld maybe not quite so much.

I'm with you on the stage shows. I saw B&tB once and enjoyed it but it's not going to pull me in again.

One thing that the Disney parks have that other parks generally lack is the complete atmosphere of it all. The street performers, the rope-drop song and dance routine, the attention to detail. The whole idea is that you feel like you're on some mid-West Main St in some town and it works really well. You feel like you're in some frontier town. You feel like you're in an 1970s version of the future (haha).

The way I see it, the problem is that those street performers and little details are important. They're the kinds of things that you may not really notice when you're there but you'd miss them if they were gone. Other amusement parks have "Main Streets" and it feels like you're in an amusement park with a bunch of stores on either side of the entrance. Other amusement parks have "old West" areas and it feels like you're in an old West section of an amusement park.

That being said, other major theme park players have been stepping up their game. Universal and Busch seem to have been really trying in this regard. Not Six Flags. They're a thrill park - which is fine. You're not getting any new theming there excepting for a kids version of "Bugs Bunny Land". Even Six Flags has realized that there's more to an amusement park than a bunch of rides on a flat piece of property and they have been stepping up their game making their parks more "park like" with flowers and trees and benches - just generally nicer.
 

Jon81uk

Well-Known Member
I'm with you on the stage shows. I saw B&tB once and enjoyed it but it's not going to pull me in again.

One thing that the Disney parks have that other parks generally lack is the complete atmosphere of it all. The street performers, the rope-drop song and dance routine, the attention to detail. The whole idea is that you feel like you're on some mid-West Main St in some town and it works really well. You feel like you're in some frontier town. You feel like you're in an 1970s version of the future (haha).

The way I see it, the problem is that those street performers and little details are important. They're the kinds of things that you may not really notice when you're there but you'd miss them if they were gone. Other amusement parks have "Main Streets" and it feels like you're in an amusement park with a bunch of stores on either side of the entrance. Other amusement parks have "old West" areas and it feels like you're in an old West section of an amusement park.

That being said, other major theme park players have been stepping up their game. Universal and Busch seem to have been really trying in this regard. Not Six Flags. They're a thrill park - which is fine. You're not getting any new theming there excepting for a kids version of "Bugs Bunny Land". Even Six Flags has realized that there's more to an amusement park than a bunch of rides on a flat piece of property and they have been stepping up their game making their parks more "park like" with flowers and trees and benches - just generally nicer.

and all of this is reflected in their pricing as well. Disney is most expensive, they provide a full day park (as in open past 7pm) with themed lands and a firework show at the end of the day. Universal is a little cheaper, still immersive well-themed attractions but no fireworks. SeaWorld/Busch are cheaper, they offer less theming but great coasters and animal exhibits. Then there is Six Flags.

I just find the fact that people say they run out of things to do at BG strange, you can re-ride a coaster several times and get a buzz each time, but re-watching a Disney show wears out quicker.
 

BubbaQuest

Well-Known Member
Universal is a little cheaper, still immersive well-themed attractions but no fireworks.

Uni does have nighttime fireworks as part of their Cinematic Spectacular. No where near the quality/duration of the Disney fireworks, but I found getting some ice cream and watching the small fireworks from Portofino Bay harbor far more enjoyable than the stroller gauntlet at Disney :)

I just find the fact that people say they run out of things to do at BG strange, you can re-ride a coaster several times and get a buzz each time, but re-watching a Disney show wears out quicker.

I agree. I wish I would have had more time at BG on my last trip. I missed many of the animal exhibits and the rides are great. I am definitely not one to want to watch a stage show more than once.
 

BubbaQuest

Well-Known Member
I know this is a WDW forum so we hear more about cuts at WDW and have more sources there...but even on Twitter and other Disney fan sites it seems like I don't hear about half as many things being cut and reduced at DLR, is that just me? It seems like they're coming out of this without too many cuts. You don't hear about them cutting multiple characters and entertainment options or other things of the like. Or am I just missing something..

I would assume there isn't a need for a lot of cuts at DLR this year because of all the existing closures for SW construction (Rivers, Railroad, Tom Sawyer, Fantasmic). Some of these cast members are still being used for similar jobs -- meet-n-greets at the RR and ships, but I would assume DLR has already had a huge drop in their operating costs because of these closures.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Uni does have nighttime fireworks as part of their Cinematic Spectacular. No where near the quality/duration of the Disney fireworks, but I found getting some ice cream and watching the small fireworks from Portofino Bay harbor far more enjoyable than the stroller gauntlet at Disney :)



I agree. I wish I would have had more time at BG on my last trip. I missed many of the animal exhibits and the rides are great. I am definitely not one to want to watch a stage show more than once.
Best kept Disney secret. The best spot for MK fireworks is at the Polynesian. They even have speakers so you can hear the show.
 

MonorailLover

Well-Known Member
Like others said, DLP is getting a good top to bottom rebuild and the attractions are incredible when they come back out. Its a Small World was gutted and rebuilt from the grounds up and it shows: its even better now than the HKDL and DL versions. Space Mountain will finish its refurbs in 2017 when the trains get new shells with vest restraints. Rock n Roller Coaster closed tonight for 4 months to replace the LSM launch system. Peter Pan's Flight was already a nice ride and it will get the upgrades that Disneyland received. This is not the "tinfoil volcano" version that is drawing huge crowds at the MK. I could go on and on, but this is what WDW should be doing.

As for the French attitude, I am a french canadian who worked at DLP before and I can throw Parisian slang around. Even though I can adopt a slower and clearer french accent so they can understand me more, I still get cute jokes and comments, but they are always in good humor, more like we're happy you're visiting us.

My last trip, I tried "Big Fernand" at the Val d'Europe mall and its a restaurant that prides itself on its french hamburgers called "Hamburge". I had the rude on purpose cashier try to correct me on using "hamburger" and I quickly fired back a french, a quebecois and english insults... This made his coworkers laugh their tail off and made the cashier realize I would not take his arrogance.

I DEFINATELY think I went at the wrong time, and I learned that too late.....
 

JediMasterMatt

Well-Known Member
I know this is a WDW forum so we hear more about cuts at WDW and have more sources there...but even on Twitter and other Disney fan sites it seems like I don't hear about half as many things being cut and reduced at DLR, is that just me? It seems like they're coming out of this without too many cuts. You don't hear about them cutting multiple characters and entertainment options or other things of the like. Or am I just missing something..

I would assume there isn't a need for a lot of cuts at DLR this year because of all the existing closures for SW construction (Rivers, Railroad, Tom Sawyer, Fantasmic). Some of these cast members are still being used for similar jobs -- meet-n-greets at the RR and ships, but I would assume DLR has already had a huge drop in their operating costs because of these closures.

I was waiting for someone to catch on to this thought.

It's a very valid question - if Disney Parks is cutting expenses to the bone, then why is it that WDW is the one that has the long rap sheet of cost cutting moves that have been noticed and DLR, thus far... hasn't?

One could argue as Bubba has that DLR has already "paid the piper" with SWL's closures and no further cuts are necessary.

There has been some cuts (Mad T going down for the count) and penny pinching (overtime and Cast hour reductions) on the West Coast; but, nothing to the level of what is happening in Orlando.

Other factors that could be argued as a reason against the cuts at DLR could be that the Potter-apocalypse Cali style is about to manifest and Luigi's trackless dance floor isn't going to be enough to combat the wand waver.

There's a lot of things that "could" be reasons why WDW is carrying the brunt of Shanghai/MM+ overruns and Walt's park is not getting bruised up like Rocky VIII.

While I haven't specifically asked "my friends" in Parks why this is happening, I can take a reasonable guess as to the reasons. It's the same reasons why DLR has continued to operate like history has taught us a Disney Park should operate and WDW keeps steering further and further off course.

First and foremost, no matter what you may hear about "One Disney" - DLR and WDW still are managed very differently. WDW making deeper cuts than DLR is simply another example of this. TDA and TDO don't exist and entities anymore; but, the mindset behind making decisions for them still does.

DLR does get some extra love out of Burbank. Being Walt's park is a part of it and proximity to top of the food chain is another.

DLR also has a different audience than WDW. The locals sway over the resort is tangible enough that it keeps Anaheim honest. It's the difference in having local audience versus long distance vactioners that I think will play in the biggest reason why the cuts won't be as deep in Anaheim.

WDW's being punished because of its success. It is also being punished because its already been proven that cuts haven't negatively impacted attendance. It's also being done because, unlike Anaheim, a cut today won't impact tomorrow's attendance severely. As long as advance reservations at the resort hold, then the ability to cut will be on the table. In many ways, a punch to the gut today (like say, cutting evening EMH) won't be felt for 180 plus days out when many make their advance reservations. If Burbank sees an impact to resort bookings at WDW, it will be easily enough to make a change tomorrow and ease the pain.

If they attempt this in Anaheim, the locals would show up the next day with pitchforks.

So, unfortunately for WDW's sake - it will continue to be carved up like a turkey (even if there is no meat on the bone left), until the queue line to get to the table stops forming.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
Not really. Shanghai and MyMagic have become bottomless pits. Security spending - even now - is pocket change in comparison.

This didn't occur to me when the thread started, otherwise I would have asked this question earlier, but... Back in 2013 (http://articles.latimes.com/2013/ju...-reveals-shanghai-disneyland-details-20130607 ), Shanghai Disneyland was set to open in late 2015. So is it more than, "Shanghai is over budget," but also at this point Shanghai was supposed to be open and the "no revenue in Q1 and Q2" weren't in the original revenue forecast models and P&R can't have that (and so they've been analyzing what could be cut since they pushed the date back in Feb 2015).

I'm just wondering if, when the gates actually do open, we might see some of the craziest cuts walked back? Obviously, not the price increases but some of the labor/hours of operation, things they got the most complaints about stuff. (and then there will be a wave of, "see it was only temporary, WDW is still great!") Unless they don't get the revenues they expected, and then domestic ops gets hit with even more.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
It's a very valid question - if Disney Parks is cutting expenses to the bone, then why is it that WDW is the one that has the long rap sheet of cost cutting moves that have been noticed and DLR, thus far... hasn't?
A simpler reason for less turmoil is that DLR has (approx. 21,000 CM's), Walt Disney World has (approx. 60,000 CM's). So all things being equal and using a fictitious amount of 10% cut would mean that DLR needed to cut 2100 jobs to WDW's 6000 jobs. That is a huge difference and would effect more things then any reductions that DLR would have, so we hear more about it. Sometimes the simplest of answers are the easiest to understand.
 

MichWolv

Born Modest. Wore Off.
Premium Member
The problem with this strategy is it ALWAYS ends in bankruptcy, I'll once again quote the Sage of Omaha "If you manage only for the bottom line, Soon you will not have a bottom line to manage" - Warren Buffet. Disney has done SQUAT to improve top line revenues under Iger relying instead on cuts and accounting tricks.
That you have insufficient knowledge of finance to make such statements is obvious to all. But in this case, you're also factually incorrect, so I thought I'd point it out. From the most recent 10-K.
DisneyRev.JPG

In billions. So, an increase of $11.5 billion (28%) in revenues in 4 years.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Uni does have nighttime fireworks as part of their Cinematic Spectacular. No where near the quality/duration of the Disney fireworks, but I found getting some ice cream and watching the small fireworks from Portofino Bay harbor far more enjoyable than the stroller gauntlet at Disney :)



I agree. I wish I would have had more time at BG on my last trip. I missed many of the animal exhibits and the rides are great. I am definitely not one to want to watch a stage show more than once.
Because Uni's spectacular isnt exactly only fireworks. It looks like a merge of Fantasmic.
The laser effects in the "lake" are very good.

Best kept Disney secret. The best spot for MK fireworks is at the Polynesian. They even have speakers so you can hear the show.

After seeing the videos of the new years fireworks .. I have to say I agree.
 

Horizons '83

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
That you have insufficient knowledge of finance to make such statements is obvious to all. But in this case, you're also factually incorrect, so I thought I'd point it out. From the most recent 10-K.
View attachment 132962
In billions. So, an increase of $11.5 billion (28%) in revenues in 4 years.

Yeah I tried explaining to him some basics of Finance but he continues to wow us with more Finance "knowledge"
 

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