Crowd Control Theories

[Po'Rich]

The problem with radical jumps in prices is that one does so at the risk of alienating the consumers. Even now, Disney offers discounts (or free meal plans) to try to get more attendance. If the price jumps too radically, then comsumers may come to believe that the product isn't for them (when was the last time you priced a DeLorean?). At that point, Disney will have lost that consumer forever. When the economy turns (and it will) Disney would have a hard time re-establishing a customer base. Drastic spikes in price might create the current desired outcome (less crowds) but it does so by risking the long-term viability of the parks.

As for the argument that price spikes might actually increase attendance, this is only true for die-hard Disney fans. For more common people, they will just determine that Disney is out of their price range. Disney vacations (if ever taken) will be one-and-done events. The strategy also opens up a real possibilty for someplace else to assume the role of the "family park." Disney spends a lot of money to reinforce the idea that it is the ideal location for families. Yet, if their prices are out-of-reach for most families, then no amount of advertising will convince otherwise.

 

[spock8113]

Construction cones and closing two lanes!


Seriously, I don't know if they have a plan. Kinda like meeting Putin.
They may just think that spreading people out over all the parks, resorts, restaurants and transportation is enough.
Truth is, crowds are here to stay so try and control your "Park Rage"......find a happy place,find a happy place, find a happy place.

 

[Tom P.]

If they could spread people evenly among the parks, crowds would not be an issue. But that is never going to happen.

No matter how much Disney invests in the other parks, the flagship of Walt Disney World will always be the Magic Kingdom. Yes, it also happens to be the best park at the moment. But even if the other parks were built out properly to compare with it, it would still be the first go-to place for most people. It is the iconic symbol of WDW. In fact, when many people say "Disney World," they are thinking about the Magic Kingdom.

I seriously doubt if even building a fifth gate would draw the massive crowds away from Magic Kingdom.

 

[Skibum1970]

Tasers, bobwire fences, and highly themed concrete chutes.

First thing I thought of was really close to this.

 

[Skibum1970]

If they could spread people evenly among the parks, crowds would not be an issue. But that is never going to happen.

No matter how much Disney invests in the other parks, the flagship of Walt Disney World will always be the Magic Kingdom. Yes, it also happens to be the best park at the moment. But even if the other parks were built out properly to compare with it, it would still be the first go-to place for most people. It is the iconic symbol of WDW. In fact, when many people say "Disney World," they are thinking about the Magic Kingdom.

I seriously doubt if even building a fifth gate would draw the massive crowds away from Magic Kingdom.

Agreed. I think that the best way to manage (not control) crowds would be to continue building new rides. I'm in the minority but I would focus a little less on building immersive lands (cost is unmanageable) and focus more on building new rides. As a part of that, the rides need to be spaced out or placed in areas to distribute the crowds more effectively.

 

[larryz]

When the economy turns (and it will) Disney would have a hard time re-establishing a customer base.

Two seasons of 30-40% discounts on lodging fixes that. They've already proved it to themselves.

Agreed. I think that the best way to manage (not control) crowds would be to continue building new rides. I'm in the minority but I would focus a little less on building immersive lands (cost is unmanageable) and focus more on building new rides. As a part of that, the rides need to be spaced out or placed in areas to distribute the crowds more effectively.

That's what they're doing with FP+ -- pushing people out to all the previously underutilized rides by creating an artificial demand for them.

 

[Po'Rich]

Two seasons of 30-40% discounts on lodging fixes that. They've already proved it to themselves.

Only if people are looking for the discount. Again, I'll use my example of the DeLorean. When was the last time you checked the price? Do you know when was the last time they had a sale? Probably not because most people don't consider DeLoreans in their price range. When it comes time to buy a new care, only the elite seriously look at DeLoreans as a possibility. My analogy, of course, only works if Disney radically raises the price of admission. However, there are some who were advocating for such a rise in prices (I believe there as one post that suggested $500 per day). I think raising prices too radically could result in the parks becoming the DeLorean of parks.

 

[larryz]

Only if people are looking for the discount. Again, I'll use my example of the DeLorean. When was the last time you checked the price? Do you know when was the last time they had a sale? Probably not because most people don't consider DeLoreans in their price range. When it comes time to buy a new care, only the elite seriously look at DeLoreans as a possibility. My analogy, of course, only works if Disney radically raises the price of admission. However, there are some who were advocating for such a rise in prices (I believe there as one post that suggested $500 per day). I think raising prices too radically could result in the parks becoming the DeLorean of parks.

Well, somebody's buying them...

 

[widlan]

I don't think that more pricier Disney vacations will help about crowd problem and as Po'Rich said, a company doesn't want to alienate customer base, it will be a very bad decision in long term.

As many said, they need to spread out people in other parks, add more "theater shows" with a lot of people capacity and more rides with lot of capacity. The rides or part of land (example Toy Story Land) should have more capacity.

Some parks, especially Epcot has so much more potential. A park about research, innovation, space and history has so much possibilities that they should use. They'll add a Ratatouille ride (sigh!)... OK, maybe it will be a great ride, I don't know (and I really like Ratatouille character), but how about new interesting themed rides directly in relation to the core themed?

 

[crxbrett]

Well, somebody's buying them...

 

[Rosanne]

Hello Everyone!

Just wanted to see if anyone 'in the know' or elsewhere has any insight on how Disney, WDW especially, is planning on "controlling" the crowds in the coming months/years. The reason I ask is that since I go pretty often, I've noticed there isn't really a slow season. The least crowded it's been for me has been around late August because most people are back to school and have already done something during the summer. November used to be less crowded, but Food and Wine extend to the second week of the month now, so those crowds spill over. Now, I don't mind the crowds, and I always found it to be part of going. That being said, most people don't think like that, and with the growing upsurge of guests year-round with the opening of SWGE, more Marvel in the parks, more kid-friendly IP in EPCOT, will usher in a ton of guests even more so than now.

So my question is, does WDW have a plan to deal with these growing numbers, or will they just wait for the pendulum to swing the other way when eventually crowds thin out?

Thanks!

I agree. The long lines & crowds are crazy, especially during the summer. We only go when the kids are in school. I think its terrible that people have to pay over $ 100 at the gate only to stand in such long lines they only get on 3 or 4 rides. Something should be done. I dont think raising the prices is a good idea. That means the only people that will get cut are low income kids. That's not fair. Walt D wanted all kids to enjoy the parks, not just rich kids. They have 4 parks now. Another idea would be to build a 5th park to disperse the crowds. They have plenty of property, why not use some of the income to build more parks.

 

[Prog]

There have been assertions in this thread that additons to non-MK parks will have no impact on crowding, or even a negative impact. I find these to be absurd.

Perhaps there will be increased demand for WDW overall, but the neglect on Epcot and Disney's Miscellaneous Studios has left much of their potential traffic to the MK. These parks can take so many more guests than they do, plenty enough to offset any induced demand. And, given the nature of Disney Parks, I don't know how much more demand such changes would actually induce. In fact, this is why TWDC neglected to invest anything substantial into the parks for decades; people would fork over cash whether TWDC spent it or not.

I see a lot of encouragement for Disney to keep raising the prices to exorbitant levels. Perhaps the disbelief at the idea of going into debt for a much-needed vacation should have made clear the type of bourgeoisie attitude circulating in this thread. Actually, I blame myself for not anticipating it, given how selfishly the discussions of Fastpass have historically gone on this website. Anyway, the ticket prices could be raised to offset demand. But why would they do that? Only something like 1% of the days hit capacity. It is way more profitable to get guests in the door at a lower price, and nickel and dime the ever-dying spirit out of them. Whatever means of extortion you go for, I worry about the long-term implications of it. Eventually, a generation will become disillusioned at the idea of feeling obligated to bring their kids to a Disney Park, spending multiple thousands of dollars on it, and getting a worse experience than they did a decade before, while constantly trying to be upsold on the experience. I also worry that the company will be more prone to recessions than they were from the 50s through the 00s. As I recall, Spirit discussed that the parks were generally less affected than other luxuries, in part due to modest pricing.

The Disney I recall was a reasonably affordable VIP experience to everyone (excluding actual VIPs, like the Disney family or the President or something). The Disney before my time, by all accounts, was that to a much greater degree. The Disney of today appears to be far more obsessed with focus groups, cost cutting, and conglomerating.

 

[Raynman]

I think they will eventually turn MK into a 2 ticket per day park. Guests will choose day ticket with parade or night ticket with fireworks, but you can't do both on the same day. Each ticket will be capped at a certain crowd level to make for better wait times.
They are already doing this with the holiday evening parties and the Disney after hour tickets.

 

[drizgirl]

I think they will eventually turn MK into a 2 ticket per day park. Guests will choose day ticket with parade or night ticket with fireworks, but you can't do both on the same day. Each ticket will be capped at a certain crowd level to make for better wait times.
They are already doing this with the holiday evening parties and the Disney after hour tickets.

Hah! They could call it a "Signature Park".

 

[Shouldigo12]

I think they will eventually turn MK into a 2 ticket per day park. Guests will choose day ticket with parade or night ticket with fireworks, but you can't do both on the same day. Each ticket will be capped at a certain crowd level to make for better wait times.
They are already doing this with the holiday evening parties and the Disney after hour tickets.

How would they enforce that though?

 

[wdwjmp239]

Hmmm, this didn't quite go the way I had hoped, but thanks to anyone who gave input. I was hoping to read actual ideas rather than the semantics of barbed wire, lol.

I was pretty interested in knowing the semantics of barbed wire. LOL!

 

[larryz]

How would they enforce that though?

Same way they do now for the hard-ticket parties. Close the park at 5 or 6 and clear everyone who doesn't have a night-time ticket (evidenced through MB scan/wristband).

 

[TraderSam]

So my question is, does WDW have a plan to deal with these growing numbers, or will they just wait for the pendulum to swing the other way when eventually crowds thin out?

Based on their recent promotions, I think WDW's plan to deal with the growing numbers is to keep them growing. They're doing everything they can to increase traffic year round with resort specials, dining specials, festivals, and holiday parties. I miss off-peak season as much as anyone, but I don't think it's going to be like it was for quite some time.

At this point I think the only realistic reason the pendulum would swing back would be due to a recession.

 

[TKTC]

I'm not a merchant, I'm a CPA.

Wow.

 

[TKTC]

I agree. The long lines & crowds are crazy, especially during the summer. We only go when the kids are in school. I think its terrible that people have to pay over $ 100 at the gate only to stand in such long lines they only get on 3 or 4 rides. Something should be done. I dont think raising the prices is a good idea. That means the only people that will get cut are low income kids. That's not fair. Walt D wanted all kids to enjoy the parks, not just rich kids. They have 4 parks now. Another idea would be to build a 5th park to disperse the crowds. They have plenty of property, why not use some of the income to build more parks.

So don't raise prices and spend more money on capex. .

OK, got it.