Crowd Control Theories

[Tom 55]

How I see crowd control. Back in the 70's when MK got to crowded then along came EPCOT. When those 2 got crowded the it was HS. When those 3 got crowded them along came AK. Then lets lure crowdes away from the parks with Disney Springs. Now instead of opening a new park they keep making the existing parks larger by adding new rides. Handle more people per park. In my opinion that seams to be working out quite well. With the land they have is there a fifth park in the future? MY first trip to MK was in 1979. My next is this September. I have watch how Disney has handled crowd growth over the years.

 

[ppete1975]

How I see crowd control. Back in the 70's when MK got to crowded then along came EPCOT. When those 2 got crowded the it was HS. When those 3 got crowded them along came AK. Then lets lure crowdes away from the parks with Disney Springs. Now instead of opening a new park they keep making the existing parks larger by adding new rides. Handle more people per park. In my opinion that seams to be working out quite well. With the land they have is there a fifth park in the future? MY first trip to MK was in 1979. My next is this September. I have watch how Disney has handled crowd growth over the years.

mk was pretty full with rides when epcot came along, epcot was humming along nicely, you could even say hs was doing well when ap opened.... now .... epcot is a broken shell, animal kingdom has plenty of space that could be used... imagine if the dinofair was 2 rides that ate people, Hollywood studios... is that even still open? I think star wars is going to really change some dynamics... epcot and ap may be ghost towns.. and for once mk might have its crowds reduced... although the studios will be horrendous.
But its better than whats going to happen to Disneyland.

 

[Bairstow]

mk was pretty full with rides when epcot came along, epcot was humming along nicely, you could even say hs was doing well when ap opened.... now .... epcot is a broken shell, animal kingdom has plenty of space that could be used... imagine if the dinofair was 2 rides that ate people, Hollywood studios... is that even still open? I think star wars is going to really change some dynamics... epcot and ap may be ghost towns.. and for once mk might have its crowds reduced... although the studios will be horrendous.
But its better than whats going to happen to Disneyland.

If past major attraction openings are any guide, Star Wars' opening at the Studios will only increase attendance at the other parks, especially at the Magic Kingdom.

 

[ppete1975]

If past major attraction openings are any guide, Star Wars' opening at the Studios will only increase attendance at the other parks, especially at the Magic Kingdom.

When is the last time we have seen anything like star wars? Universal had harry potter but Disney? I think you are going to bring a whole new crop of first time Disney goers who are only there for star wars.

 

[Chef Mickey]

I'm sure others have said it, but the biggest issue is MK. Everyone gravitates there for 3 reasons:

1) Other parks close earlier than MK
2) Better night activities at MK
3) It's THE park to visit if you're there a short time.

One thing they could do is bolster the offerings and hours at the other 3 parks. They are doing that with the EPCOT revamp and DHS expansion. Avatar helped some. Hours at AK helps some.

More total people come, but Disney has plenty of space and would be a lot better if they distributed the crowds more evenly.

Lastly, they need to increase prices...a lot, particularly at MK. If you want to go to MK, they need a demand based premium or something. I don't love the idea, but people will respond to significantly increased prices. 10% isn't going to move the needle, but 50% would. You would have a lot of upset people, but it's an option.

 

[Bairstow]

When is the last time we have seen anything like star wars? Universal had harry potter but Disney? I think you are going to bring a whole new crop of first time Disney goers who are only there for star wars.

Pandora in Florida, Radiator Springs out west.

Because of the way most people buy multiday, multipark tickets for Disney World, rising tides tend to raise all the ships. Also, Disney has had Star Wars attractions since 1986.

 

[monothingie]

Hello Everyone!

Just wanted to see if anyone 'in the know' or elsewhere has any insight on how Disney, WDW especially, is planning on "controlling" the crowds in the coming months/years. The reason I ask is that since I go pretty often, I've noticed there isn't really a slow season. The least crowded it's been for me has been around late August because most people are back to school and have already done something during the summer. November used to be less crowded, but Food and Wine extend to the second week of the month now, so those crowds spill over. Now, I don't mind the crowds, and I always found it to be part of going. That being said, most people don't think like that, and with the growing upsurge of guests year-round with the opening of SWGE, more Marvel in the parks, more kid-friendly IP in EPCOT, will usher in a ton of guests even more so than now.

So my question is, does WDW have a plan to deal with these growing numbers, or will they just wait for the pendulum to swing the other way when eventually crowds thin out?

Thanks!

Raise Prices higher.

 

[ppete1975]

I don't think cost is the issue. Disney sitting on their hands way too long and letting the parks get to this point is the issue. Disney is getting close to where your middle class is going to go elsewhere, it wont happen all at once but like global warming there will be a moment that it becomes evident and it will be a huge issue that will be hard to fix. Yes MK is Disney to most people and I understand that.. and if I have a little kid with me how much do they care about epcot, ak or the studios when compared to princesses the castle and characters everywhere... the parks are Spartan as far as rides (outside of mk), epcot has so much potential but was left to rot, so was the studios (and a lot of what was still there was removed for star wars and tsl). Fix those issues and publicize whats in the other parks, there are still people who don't understand whats at any of the parks outside of mk.
Another fix is to expand mk make it bigger.
At least they didn't take out a bunch of MK and add star wars to it..... that would be a disaster....

 

[ppete1975]

Pandora in Florida, Radiator Springs out west.

Because of the way most people buy multiday, multipark tickets for Disney World, rising tides tend to raise all the ships. Also, Disney has had Star Wars attractions since 1986.

Pandora is not star wars
Cars is not star wars

I don't think anyone came to Pandora because they are fans of the franchise...
cars fans are fans of disney
star wars is comic con, nerds, people who have no interest in Disney but are star wars nuts....
Harry potter is the only comparison that I can come up with
star tours never brought in the crowds that a star wars land with the millennium falcon parked inside is going to bring. And then theres the hotel...

 

[monothingie]

I don't think cost is the issue. Disney sitting on their hands way too long and letting the parks get to this point is the issue. Disney is getting close to where your middle class is going to go elsewhere, it wont happen all at once but like global warming there will be a moment that it becomes evident and it will be a huge issue that will be hard to fix. Yes MK is Disney to most people and I understand that.. and if I have a little kid with me how much do they care about epcot, ak or the studios when compared to princesses the castle and characters everywhere... the parks are Spartan as far as rides (outside of mk), epcot has so much potential but was left to rot, so was the studios (and a lot of what was still there was removed for star wars and tsl). Fix those issues and publicize whats in the other parks, there are still people who don't understand whats at any of the parks outside of mk.
Another fix is to expand mk make it bigger.
At least they didn't take out a bunch of MK and add star wars to it..... that would be a disaster....

Disney does not want anymore middle class guests. They are quite happy with the current levels. They want more higher spending wealthier guests. That’s were the money is made. Sell them on VIP tours, upcharge events, parking fees, dining packages, etc. The people staying at Value resorts are filler for them to drive the higher end into premium experiences and more $$$ spending.

 

[ppete1975]

Disney does not want anymore middle class guests. They are quite happy with the current levels. They want more higher spending wealthier guests. That’s were the money is made. Sell them on VIP tours, upcharge events, parking fees, dining packages, etc. The people staying at Value resorts are filler for them to drive the higher end into premium experiences and more $$$ spending.

I don't believe that. I complain about a lot of the upcharges and ticket prices, but I believe they care about the middle class (honestly that's what Disney is made on.. making the middle class buy 20 dollar ear hats). I think we just become a bit jaded on this message board because all we hear is the price increases and the gouges.
I don't think they have meetings about how we get rid of the poor people and make sure its only for the wealthy.

my opinion only.

 

[Bairstow]

Pandora is not star wars
Cars is not star wars

I don't think anyone came to Pandora because they are fans of the franchise...
cars fans are fans of disney
star wars is comic con, nerds, people who have no interest in Disney but are star wars nuts....
Harry potter is the only comparison that I can come up with
star tours never brought in the crowds that a star wars land with the millennium falcon parked inside is going to bring. And then theres the hotel...

Yeah, I'm sure the Star Wars stuff will bring a lot of people to the parks, the Studios and Magic Kingdom especially.

 

[John park hopper]

What they need to do is make the whole D___ place Club 33- cut the crowds-- make the big bucks and be done with it.

 

[monothingie]

I don't believe that. I complain about a lot of the upcharges and ticket prices, but I believe they care about the middle class (honestly that's what Disney is made on.. making the middle class buy 20 dollar ear hats). I think we just become a bit jaded on this message board because all we hear is the price increases and the gouges.
I don't think they have meetings about how we get rid of the poor people and make sure its only for the wealthy.

my opinion only.

@ParentsOf4 has a lot of data regarding guest spending and it’s importance to the bottom line. Based on this and the overall push towards enchanching spending levels the strategy TWDC has taken is to push more offerings for the higher end customer at the expense of the regular customer. Desert parties, vip tours, Christmas and Halloween parties, festivals, etc are all targeted and priced for the wealthier and at the same time have replaced offerings and events that had been included with standard admission.

 

[NelsonRD]

I'm sure others have said it, but the biggest issue is MK. Everyone gravitates there for 3 reasons:

1) Other parks close earlier than MK
2) Better night activities at MK
3) It's THE park to visit if you're there a short time.

One thing they could do is bolster the offerings and hours at the other 3 parks. They are doing that with the EPCOT revamp and DHS expansion. Avatar helped some. Hours at AK helps some.

More total people come, but Disney has plenty of space and would be a lot better if they distributed the crowds more evenly.

Lastly, they need to increase prices...a lot, particularly at MK. If you want to go to MK, they need a demand based premium or something. I don't love the idea, but people will respond to significantly increased prices. 10% isn't going to move the needle, but 50% would. You would have a lot of upset people, but it's an option.

Increasing prices will not work. Even if it was raised 50%, people will still book out of fear they are beating the next 60% increase.
Lowering prices would help the parks more, as there will be less urgency, as people will put off a trip until the timing may be better for them. My upcoming trip was booked prior to the parking fees implementation, and while the timing will work for us, it is not perfect. There is a threshold of pricing that will affect crowds, but my point is, it will have, and is having, the reverse effect first.

 

[larryz]

Just in case there are some of us who have an upper limit on what we're willing to pay for park admission, here's a poll to roughly gauge how much our wallets and pocketbooks can bear...

 

[larryz]

What they need to do is make the whole D___ place Club 33- cut the crowds-- make the big bucks and be done with it.

I suggested "Club Walt" with a $1,000 annual fee just to be able to buy tickets and make reservations...

 

[Bairstow]

Increasing prices will not work. Even if it was raised 50%, people will still book out of fear they are beating the next 60% increase.

One would have to be pathologically addicted to theme park vacations to make decisions like this. If Disney could raise prices by 5%, let alone 50% without significantly impacting their attendance they would have done it already.

 

[monothingie]

Just in case there are some of us who have an upper limit on what we're willing to pay for park admission, here's a poll to roughly gauge how much our wallets and pocketbooks can bear...

@larryz maybe with an admins assitance you can create a sticky poll or a sub section with polls(with or without the ability to comment) to gauge members expectations for things like ticket costs, hotel prices (deluxe, moderate, value) tours, food, etc.) A lot of what we hear from participants in the forum is speculation regarding the price sensitivity of guests. I would be curious to put some actual data behind it.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

Tasers, bobwire fences, and highly themed concrete chutes.

Or someone summons Babe and he gives the guests the secret word so they all start meandering in a certain direction