Crowd Control Theories

[Shouldigo12]

Increasing prices will not work. Even if it was raised 50%, people will still book out of fear they are beating the next 60% increase.
Lowering prices would help the parks more, as there will be less urgency, as people will put off a trip until the timing may be better for them. My upcoming trip was booked prior to the parking fees implementation, and while the timing will work for us, it is not perfect. There is a threshold of pricing that will affect crowds, but my point is, it will have, and is having, the reverse effect first.

I think people on this forum forget most people aren't watching Disney-and their prices- like we do. The average Disney goer is not scouring news in search of new price increases and charges. The average Disney goer probably doesn't even spend their time on these forums, except maybe to get some quick tips on planning.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Honestly we spend the least amount of time in the MK. We are Epcot and AK fans. Heck, with my moms favorite ride being Toy Story we would do HS before MK.

I'm with you on that. I've got two small kids and can still somewhat control the movement around the World. In a couple of years it will be a lot harder not to go to MK several times each visit.

MK for me is a half day park. Not because there aren't enough things to do for an entire day...but more so for pace, experience, and peace of mind. I fall in 2 camps (usually...but there are exceptions).

The first is hitting MK in the morning (maybe rope-drop) and spending my time on Main Street, Adventureland, Frontierland, and Liberty Square for a waffle or Presidents. I'm usually out by 3pm at the latest.

The second is arriving late afternoon/early evening - which is exclusively for Main Street, Fantasyland, Tomorrowland, and a dip over to Liberty if I want to go on HM. In that case I'm there through close.

 

[HwdStudio]

Paying CC interest for a vacation? I can't believe there are enough people who would actually do that. Then again. . .

It’s naive to think that there aren’t enough people who pay interest for a vacation. Millions do it everyday.

 

[OneofThree]

It’s naive to think that there aren’t enough people who pay interest for a vacation. Millions do it everyday.

So, my clients typically do not pay for their vacations this way, as it makes little financial sense. Wondering what you were basing this on, I turned to google and found this:

https://nypost.com/2017/06/21/most-americans-will-go-into-debt-to-pay-for-a-vacation/

"Nearly three-quarters of Americans have gone into debt to pay for a vacation, according to the results of a recent survey of 1,000 adults from financial planning platform LearnVest. Contributing to this trend is the fact that people do not financially account for vacations — the survey found that 55 percent of Americans don’t factor these expenses into their annual budgets."

"Millennials are far more willing than other generations to go into debt over a trip (49 percent) than members of Generation X (37 percent) and baby boomers (18 percent.) “People go into a ‘vacation mentality’ where not unlike Scarlett O’Hara, they will ‘worry about that tomorrow’ and then reality hits hard in the form of a credit card bill,” Lauren Lindsay, director of financial planning at Personal Financial Advisors in Covington, La., said in an email."

"Racking up credit card or other forms of debt to pay for a trip has major repercussions, said LearnVest chief executive and founder Alexa von Tobel. “In the short-term, your credit score can suffer — this can affect your ability to rent an apartment or get a good rate on a mortgage or loan,” von Tobel said. “In the long term, you’re impacting your ability to retire financially sound.”

Just wow.

 

[Lucky]

Just wow. View attachment 295995

Yeah, but I’m not sure it makes the top 20 list of Bad Decisions Americans Make.

 

[NelsonRD]

Price increases work on discretionary elastic products because people don't have unlimited money. It would work. Some people would choose to pay, but others could literally not afford it. Inelastic products like gas are less price sensitive because they are commodities with no susbtitutes.

But that is my point. Disney is a luxury, and not treated as a commodity, so those who cannot afford it, will find a way to go now, before prices go higher, and it really becomes outside of their means, resulting in more people going now, even during price increases. Families waiting on an event, anniversary, specific age for children, etc, may alter their plans to go now.

 

[GeoffR]

I think people on this forum forget most people aren't watching Disney-and their prices- like we do. The average Disney goer is not scouring news in search of new price increases and charges. The average Disney goer probably doesn't even spend their time on these forums, except maybe to get some quick tips on planning.

I think this is a brilliant point. While on a job one day I was discussing how I was going to WDW soon. My client's reaction was the typical 'oh the crowds, oh the heat etc.' And i think this brings up a good point that the average park goer is under the assumption that crowds are unbearable, it's too expensive....really the stereotyped negative WDW views. So, the average park goer is almost coerced into thinking the prices and crowds are 'as expected.' However, people who pay attention know this isn't the case. Again, good point here.

 

[GeoffR]

I also would like to point out, I believe the success of Universal down the road has done a lot to bolster crowds too. In speaking with several guests, if they are coming from far away, they are likely to visit Universal (for HP, Minions, all the great new stuff) AND stop over to Disney in one trip. If your kid is a huge HP fan, and you go to Universal, the likelihood of you stopping by WDW is very high because of the proximity. The competition between the two has really driven innovation, and a lot more people between them

 

[John park hopper]

So, my clients typically do not pay for their vacations this way, as it makes little financial sense. Wondering what you were basing this on, I turned to google and found this:

https://nypost.com/2017/06/21/most-americans-will-go-into-debt-to-pay-for-a-vacation/

"Nearly three-quarters of Americans have gone into debt to pay for a vacation, according to the results of a recent survey of 1,000 adults from financial planning platform LearnVest. Contributing to this trend is the fact that people do not financially account for vacations — the survey found that 55 percent of Americans don’t factor these expenses into their annual budgets."

"Millennials are far more willing than other generations to go into debt over a trip (49 percent) than members of Generation X (37 percent) and baby boomers (18 percent.) “People go into a ‘vacation mentality’ where not unlike Scarlett O’Hara, they will ‘worry about that tomorrow’ and then reality hits hard in the form of a credit card bill,” Lauren Lindsay, director of financial planning at Personal Financial Advisors in Covington, La., said in an email."

"Racking up credit card or other forms of debt to pay for a trip has major repercussions, said LearnVest chief executive and founder Alexa von Tobel. “In the short-term, your credit score can suffer — this can affect your ability to rent an apartment or get a good rate on a mortgage or loan,” von Tobel said. “In the long term, you’re impacting your ability to retire financially sound.”

Just wow. View attachment 295995

Validates my earlier post. Interesting only 18% of boomers use credit cards for vacations I would suspect the low number is due to post depression parents I'm one of them can still hear my parents say never get yourself into debt

 

[KimAnnFran]

The answer is probably a "no" but do the parks have caps as to how many people they allow in?

 

[GeoffR]

The answer is probably a "no" but do the parks have caps as to how many people they allow in?

Yes they do. It's a safety thing. On days like Christmas and 4th of July they stop letting guests in because of capacity

 

[TechRavingMad]

I don't think the problem in general is crowd count, but just that MK is too crowded (like others have said).

My suggestion would be if you buy park hopper tickets allow you to book fast passes across parks and allow more fast passes. I would recommend something like:
MK - Max 3 fast passes
EP/HS/AK - Max 5 fast passes

I would also suggest changing the fast pass system around so that instead of "levels" like at EP and AK you instead split into rides and shows, and then allow 3 of each.

I also think that just upping the number of fast passes per person per day would help control crowds. But I really wish I could book fast passes across parks and I think that would encourage people leaving MK.

 

[etherius1960]

Hello Everyone!

Just wanted to see if anyone 'in the know' or elsewhere has any insight on how Disney, WDW especially, is planning on "controlling" the crowds in the coming months/years. The reason I ask is that since I go pretty often, I've noticed there isn't really a slow season. The least crowded it's been for me has been around late August because most people are back to school and have already done something during the summer. November used to be less crowded, but Food and Wine extend to the second week of the month now, so those crowds spill over. Now, I don't mind the crowds, and I always found it to be part of going. That being said, most people don't think like that, and with the growing upsurge of guests year-round with the opening of SWGE, more Marvel in the parks, more kid-friendly IP in EPCOT, will usher in a ton of guests even more so than now.

So my question is, does WDW have a plan to deal with these growing numbers, or will they just wait for the pendulum to swing the other way when eventually crowds thin out?

Thanks!

So, here’s a serious reply. I live in the Midwest and rarely plan vacations to Florida. When I do, I avoid Disney... because of the crowds, the rudeness of the crowds, and the lines. I go to Universal, because I can pay extra and buy a VIP Tour that gets me to the front of the line. I can see both parks in one day each, ride everything and then just look look around, shop, and still get front of the line access. Well worth the money. Disney has some of what they call VIP tours, but they have nothing to do with getting guests through the rides... just showing them behind the scenes stuff (like how they collect trash). When I inquired as to whether or not they’d do something like Universal, their response was that EVERYONE is a VIP and that doing such would ruin that idea.... REALLY? Then what do they do when Oprah, Johnny Depp, or Pres. Obama visit? They treat them like VIPs and let them skip the lines...... George Orwell once said in Animal Farm... “Everyone’s a VIP, it’s just that some are more VIP than others.” wink.

Seriously... it’s been too long in coming, but the absolute best way to knock down the crowds and still make billions is to build a third US park in the middle of the country.

 

[Dave B]

So, my clients typically do not pay for their vacations this way, as it makes little financial sense. Wondering what you were basing this on, I turned to google and found this:

https://nypost.com/2017/06/21/most-americans-will-go-into-debt-to-pay-for-a-vacation/

"Nearly three-quarters of Americans have gone into debt to pay for a vacation, according to the results of a recent survey of 1,000 adults from financial planning platform LearnVest. Contributing to this trend is the fact that people do not financially account for vacations — the survey found that 55 percent of Americans don’t factor these expenses into their annual budgets."

"Millennials are far more willing than other generations to go into debt over a trip (49 percent) than members of Generation X (37 percent) and baby boomers (18 percent.) “People go into a ‘vacation mentality’ where not unlike Scarlett O’Hara, they will ‘worry about that tomorrow’ and then reality hits hard in the form of a credit card bill,” Lauren Lindsay, director of financial planning at Personal Financial Advisors in Covington, La., said in an email."

"Racking up credit card or other forms of debt to pay for a trip has major repercussions, said LearnVest chief executive and founder Alexa von Tobel. “In the short-term, your credit score can suffer — this can affect your ability to rent an apartment or get a good rate on a mortgage or loan,” von Tobel said. “In the long term, you’re impacting your ability to retire financially sound.”

Just wow. View attachment 295995

So your clients don't use Credit Cards to pay you for their trip? I am confused on your comment

 

[SapphireStorm]

Tasers, bobwire fences, and highly themed concrete chutes.

Pull the lever, Kronk!

 

[OneofThree]

So your clients don't use Credit Cards to pay you for their trip? I am confused on your comment

They may utilize them as a payment method, but would never subject themselves to that sort of interest by carrying the balance for any length of time.

 

[Tom P.]

Paying CC interest for a vacation? I can't believe there are enough people who would actually do that. Then again. . .

You're kidding, right? We are a society absolutely in love with debt. (It's killing us, but that's another debate.) Absolutely people pay credit card interest for a vacation. Heck, people pay credit card interest for a meal from Taco Bell!

 

[Cpt. Sassypants]

Things that will help disburse all these crowds is the upcoming rides and new areas. Star Wars land will be the next land to eat up all the attention and take some of the crowd away from the Kingdom. If the company does it right this will help them for the next decade, if not more. Adding other rides such as Tron in MK and Guardians at Epcot will take even more crowds away at those respective parks and help with line distribution. Especially Epcot since Test Track, Frozen, and Soarin are the biggest drawers of bodies. The new france ride based off the Gordon Ramsay rat will help and help bring more crowds to the other side of the World Showcase.

The Skyway system set to add another transportation option would also alleviate traffic on the watercraft and busses operating between HS and EP.

Things that didn't pan out would be Avatar land, while Flights of Passage draws big crowds the land itself is a little underwhelming and as you can see today, isn't drawing too many people outside of one ride. The same can be said about Toy Story land, personally I think doing that land was a quick and cheap way to get some attention to HS while not breaking backs in terms of imagination. Great filler area till Star Wars comes out.

One suggestion I would have is to finally take the Stitch ride out back and put'er down like Old Yeller. Tomorrowland is a hot commodity area and to have an attraction so underwhelming is just sad. Bringing in another IP attraction would go a long way, at least an attraction that you can put your feet up for a few minutes. I would also take down buzz light year once star wars hits and completely revamp the attraction, with a technologically advanced ride like Toy Story you can surely add some bells and whistles and update it. Keep the theme but just do a good overhaul and upgrade.

This is just me though and I'm sure there are greater minds seeing a bigger picture and budget better than I am.

 

[Dave B]

They may utilize them as a payment method, but would never subject themselves to that sort of interest by carrying the balance for any length of time.

And you know this how? c'mon now, So I am assuming when you take their payment you are asking them if they are paying it off on the next statement

 

[OneofThree]

And you know this how? c'mon now, So I am assuming when you take their payment you are asking them if they are paying it off on the next statement

I'm not a merchant, I'm a CPA.