News Crazy fight in Toontown

[DanielBB8]

Between the crazy litigious society we currently live in and the apparent unwillingness of most people to help someone who’s being attacked, I truly fear for the future.

I don't hear those women asking strangers for help or try to escape. You might fear what your reaction might be. Are we okay this this? That's scary because reality has a way of changing natural expectations. I recalled a 1970s movie where a woman screamed for help and no one offered to help. A person finally called the police much later and too late to save her. Well, the circumstances isn't exactly the same here. These women didn't ask. The men subdued the perpetrator when it should be Disney's job. Nor did Disney tell the crowd to stand aside. There was a lot of hair pulling and slapping. No one was bleeding. So it's bad, but not serious. These men were huge. The women are just as big. These women are bigger than me.

 

[erasure fan1]

Are you willing to pay the salaries of hundreds more security guards or police? Because that’s what you’re asking for, in effect. And you’ll pay for it, not Disney

We already do pay for it. Last I checked Disneys had record profits. So asking for competent security isn't asking for too much. You wouldn't need hundreds of extra security to have someone able to respond within a couple minutes. Heck, I've crossed the magic kingdom in less time than it took them to respond. And I was just getting my paper fastpasses.

 

[aw14]

If the giant had really wanted to hurt anyone he could have seriously injured someone with his closed fists and fast hand speed. There was always that danger if one of the bystandres had physically intervened. Notice how the 300 lbs offensive lineman guy bystander with the blue hat and "football" on his T-shirt would not lay a hand on the giant. He knew he would get lit up if he had touched the giant.

I am not going to respond to the comments about hand speed or the like...thats kind of silly in this case. Especially when the two guys "squared off". There was no hand speed on display. Just very, VERY sloppy striking between two out of shape guys. That said, a much smaller guy put the "giant down" with a poorly placed RNC. Had that been placed properly, the giant is asleep in seconds. That has nothing to do with size, its about technique and appropriate skill.

The issue isn't the desire to physically cause the stop in the action. Its more to try to intervene to help. That can be done in a multitude of ways.

 

[Amidala]

I think we need to be more pc and careful of these people’s feelings. That’s more important than ensuring this never happens again.

If I had a nickel for every time someone unironically used the term "PC" in this thread I'd be a billionaire and I could pay out of my own pocket to bulk up Disneyland's security team. No one is saying this and you know it...just asking that you think critically about what you say before you say it.

 

[bclane]

I don't hear those women asking strangers for help or try to escape. You might fear what your reaction might be. Are we okay this this? That's scary because reality has a way of changing natural expectations. I recalled a 1970s movie where a woman screamed for help and no one offered to help. A person finally called the police much later and too late to save her. Well, the circumstances isn't exactly the same here. These women didn't ask. The men subdued the perpetrator when it should be Disney's job. Nor did Disney tell the crowd to stand aside. There was a lot of hair pulling and slapping. No one was bleeding. So it's bad, but not serious. These men were huge. The women are just as big. These women are bigger than me.

We just feel different about this and that’s fine. We have different life experiences. Here’s the thing, I used to teach at a public high school in Hawaii. Three different schools actually but one in particular was a really rough school. I broke up fights between very large students more often than people would believe there. People may say breaking up fights between high school kids is no big deal and doesn’t compare to this, but some of those kids were 250 to 300 lb Samoans on the football team. The only time I hesitated to get in the middle of a fight was when it was girls fighting but that is only because I was repeatedly warned about the dangers of getting involved in girl fights because of the added liability due to their being female (because of what could happen when trying to separate them). I still got involved but was MUCH MUCH MUCH more cautious about where I placed my hands. I hated girl fights and definitely felt more comfortable breaking up fights between males. But trust me, when you see a large girl mounted on top of a smaller girl and repeatedly punching her in the face of bashing her head into the ground, you are gonna get involved, regardless of the potential liability. Anyway, I was punched several times in the process of breaking up these fights (not on purpose but as a result of being in the middle of it) by both males and females and honestly you just get used to it after a while and learn to protect yourself. I don’t expect everyone to get involved in these situations but I have been trained and I have actually experience breaking up fights and if you can stay calm and not act like an ...or just pick you entry and go for a submission, you can stay pretty safe while possibly preventing someone from being seriously injured. In the Disneyland incident there were literally women being open fist punched in the face and knocked to the ground. I don’t care that they weren’t asking for help. They needed it. But we also need people to just run and get help or call 911. What bothered me about the video most (other than the jackass attacking people) was all the spectators just standing around and doing nothing like it was some kind of show.

 

[aw14]

We just feel different about this and that’s fine. We have different life experiences. Here’s the thing, I used to teach at a public high school in Hawaii. Three different schools actually but one in particular was a really rough school. I broke up fights between very large students more often than people would believe there. People may say breaking up fights between high school kids is no big deal and doesn’t compare to this, but some of those kids were 250 to 300 lb Samoans on the football team. The only time I hesitated to get in the middle of a fight was when it was girls fighting but that is only because I was repeatedly warned about the dangers of getting involved in girl fights because of the added liability due to their being female (because of what could happen when trying to separate them). I still got involved but was MUCH MUCH MUCH more cautious about where I placed my hands. I hated girl fights and definitely felt more comfortable breaking up fights between males. But trust me, when you see a large girl mounted on top of a smaller girl and repeatedly punching her in the face of bashing her head into the ground, you are gonna get involved, regardless of the potential liability. Anyway, I was punched several times in the process of breaking up these fights (not on purpose but as a result of being in the middle of it) by both males and females and honestly you just get used to it after a while and learn to protect yourself. I don’t expect everyone to get involved in these situations but I have been trained and I have actually experience breaking up fights and if you can stay calm and not act like an ***...or just pick you entry and go for a submission, you can stay pretty safe while possibly preventing someone from being seriously injured. In the Disneyland incident there were literally women being open fist punched in the face and knocked to the ground. I don’t care that they weren’t asking for help. They needed it. But we also need people to just run and get help or call 911. What bothered me about the video most (other than the jackass attacking people) was all the spectators just standing around and doing nothing like it was some kind of show.

Couldn't agree more. I have worked in public schools for almost two decades, in varying capacities (coach, teacher, administrator). I have broken up more fights than I can count, and some with weapons. People have to do what they feel is right, and ones personal beliefs and conscious comes into play here. If I saw the guy smacking the woman, I would have to do something. I can't say what that is, because I do not know and I am not in that situation, thankfully.

You are right though, girl fights were the worst.

 

[flynnibus]

I’m rather surprised this many people are saying the Disney cast members “should have been doing something!” Doing what exactly?

If I’m a CM there is no way I’m getting in the middle of that at $15 am hour. Add to that as outlined in this and they other thread on the sites you’re probably getting fired and opening yourself up to litigation.

They should have been on the radio and security should have been able to respond quicker. We can see the one small guy on his radio later.. but the fact there was zero DL security, let alone police response within the timeframe filmed is pretty miserable. I'm guessing because it's toon town area they were further away from their normal staging areas.

But, it's like the drunk in front of ToT a few years ago... pretty slow response there as well. DLR just hasn't learned..

 

[flynnibus]

The response from park management and security present on the scene and their inability to even try to prevent further injury to park visitors from the one minute mark to the four minute mark is a real problem here, folks.

Seriously.. they don't even try to detain or move the people off stage... it's bad.

 

[bclane]

Couldn't agree more. I have worked in public schools for almost two decades, in varying capacities (coach, teacher, administrator). I have broken up more fights than I can count, and some with weapons. People have to do what they feel is right, and ones personal beliefs and conscious comes into play here. If I saw the guy smacking the woman, I would have to do something. I can't say what that is, because I do not know and I am not in that situation, thankfully.

You are right though, girl fights were the worst.

Right on man. I don’t think people understand unless they’ve been in that environment. Of course we also had the teachers that would just go in their room and lock the door when fights broke out but most of us were willing to intervene in some way or another until security got there to take over. One of the most intense days of my life was when the bell rang early after a Friday assembly and so you had well over a thousand kids just hanging out by the gym with no where to go. A fight broke out and this turned into probably 20 to 30 fights all across the area. Every teacher, administrator, janitor, security guard, you name it, that was at the assembly was involved in some way and it took what felt like FOREVER for the cops to arrive. I watched one of the janitors literally body slamming kids. It was crazy. He was almost fired but there was video showing him being attacked by multiple students so he just got off with a warning. The whole thing was over in like 20 minutes but it felt like hours and I had to lay down afterwards because I was so exhausted. I never want to go through that again which is why I feel things things like this need to be stopped as fast as possible before it spreads.

 

[flynnibus]

They dont have the utilidors or what ever they call those tunnels at DL do they?

I assume the reaction time would be alot quicker at MK because of those tunnels.

No utilidors... but toon town is also very close to backstage and BOH.

 

[Monorail_Orange]

20 years ago, I had the privilege of attending a Traditions course as a brand-new college program CM in WDW. Of all the things we were taught in that course, there is one message that stood out above and beyond everything else: If you're a CM, and you get into a fight on property, you will be fired. It does not matter if your on/off the clock, in/out of costume, first punch thrower, or just defending yourself, IN A FIGHT ON PROPERTY = YOU WILL BE FIRED.

The CM's simply cannot get involved, the best they can do is call for help. They did.

Help, in the form of Disney Security (in significant numbers to intervene), arrived and engaged within 2 minutes of the first physical assault. I have no problem with that, and I think those of you who are criticizing the response time are being unreasonable and unrealistic. Yes, it feels like a long time, but you have to get enough manpower...excuse me, lost my PC for a moment....HUmanpower staged and coordinated to overwhelm the chaos and restore order.

However, Disney Security, in today's highly charged atmosphere (this situation is highly charged in numerous ways), cannot just go crazy, and must (and do) show tremendous restraint. Someone earlier said they were sure 95% of us would be ok with a tasering, and they're probably right about that...but that other 5% would shout so shrilly as to cause huge headaches too. A few others have also pointed out, CORRECTLY, that there are massive legal problems associated with any action Disney Security would take too. And sorry to all the wannabe trial lawyers in this thread, but you can't successfully accuse Disney of a failure to act when the laws and court rulings in CA have so limited their ability to act. It's simply doesn't cut both way unless they did absolutely nothing...and that's not what happened here.

There's no good solution here. What ended up happening is about as good as it gets. You don't like it? Fine. If you live in CA, then find some politicians who will change the laws to something you like. It is what it is.

 

[DanielBB8]

In the Disneyland incident there were literally women being open fist punched in the face and knocked to the ground. I don’t care that they weren’t asking for help. They needed it. But we also need people to just run and get help or call 911. What bothered me about the video most (other than the jackass attacking people) was all the spectators just standing around and doing nothing like it was some kind of show.

Before I muster up the sympathy I have for strangers, I care more about my own safety and those I'm with to make the decision to break up fights between strangers. I also don't have the experience you have in breaking up fights between 300 lb Samoans.

It is a show. They can't evacuate the land when the altercation is right in the middle of the plaza. People have to stand around and wait for the place to be cleared out. Most people don't have experience and training in breaking up fights. It's a skill that's of no use to most people except on an occasional visit to Disneyland. Maybe that's why only a few intervened. But you literally don't know if others ran to get help.

 

[aw14]

not that hard for small poor RNC guy
When he was part of The five guys who jumped the preoccupied Giant from behind. It wasnt some one on one face off at some pizza Joint. So lets not pretend small sloppy RNC guy took on The giant straight up.

And i really doubt theres anyone in that video who has The Giants hand speed or punching ability. Theres nobody there who could take on The Giant one on one while avoiding damage.

Hence why it took so long for people to step in. And if there’s that big a size/height/reach differential I seriously doubt you would’ve stepped in one on one against that full grown adult giant. This isn’t some innocent doey eyed kid.

Theres a couple of things you are overlooking.

1. watch he video again- when the two guys "fight", the "giant" exhibited no hand speed, no striking accumen, no skill whatsoever.As a matter of fact, his strikes were nothing more than arm strikes, yes they hurt, song more than anything else, but damage wise, his wife bounced up quickly (thankfully)
2. The smaller guy who applies the choke, again, lacked skill and it still took him down with relative ease
3. If you read my other post, I am not going to say what I would or wouldn't do since I am not in that situation. However, never make assumptions about anyone as you have no idea who is on other side of the conversation

 

[bclane]

20 minutes is a long time for a fight. Most actually Fighting is over in minutes if not
Seconds.

What you experienced was riot or mob which is one of The scarieced things ever

Very true. Almost every fight I ever had to break up lasted a couple minutes max. This thing just kept spreading and spreading and as soon as we'd get one group separated something else would open up near by. It was truly scary. Never been a part of anything like it before or since then and hope I never am again. I was literally shaking when it was over and completely exhausted...and I was not out of shape.

 

[Monorail_Orange]

his wife bounced up quickly (thankfully)

Yeah thats Clause ITS «family» (vin diesel Voice). He pulled his strikes agianst The fat guy and his wife.
That other fat lady was barely touched and fell down dead.

Seems to me like youve been making an awful lot of assumptions yourself
But humor me what would you do to The giant.

Why does all this talk of fat and bouncing remind me of that line in Rudolph's Christmas special about the abominable snowman and "blubber bounces!"

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Everyone I know (non Disney people) are watching and talking about this video (and I’m not bringing it up.)

 

[bclane]

Before I muster up the sympathy I have for strangers, I care more about my own safety and those I'm with to make the decision to break up fights between strangers. I also don't have the experience you have in breaking up fights between 300 lb Samoans.

It is a show. They can't evacuate the land when the altercation is right in the middle of the plaza. People have to stand around and wait for the place to be cleared out. Most people don't have experience and training in breaking up fights. It's a skill that's of no use to most people except on an occasional visit to Disneyland. Maybe that's why only a few intervened. But you literally don't know if others ran to get help.

I understand completely where you are coming from. And I assume some people did run for help. Good for them. It's the ones that did nothing and just stood there watching, some with small children even...that bother me. If I was there when my children were small and this happened, I would like to believe that I would have first gotten them to safety in case things got out of hand before even thinking of getting involved. I definitely would not have just stood by and watched though either way. That is just crazy imo. If I was there without my kids, I would have looked for an opportunity to take the guys back (since there were already people calmly speaking to him about cooling down), probably during one of the multiple times he was attacking someone else, and then attempted to submit him which is exactly what it looks like the one guy did. He actually went down pretty quick once the guy got him in the rear naked. And actually, it's hard to tell from the video (especially on my phone) how deep the guy sunk the choke. It could have been that he was just restricting the bully's breathing...which is also effective but also a lot more dangerous. I would not have gotten up in his face and started screaming at him, which thankfully no one did except for the ones that were apparently part of his family. Just my opinion.

 

[CAV]

The fact that it took 3 & 1/2 minutes for security to come is ridiculous. WDW would have had that fight cleared out in 3 & 1/2 seconds.

Maybe if someone would put their camera away long enough to call 911.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

We already do pay for it. Last I checked Disneys had record profits. So asking for competent security isn't asking for too much. You wouldn't need hundreds of extra security to have someone able to respond within a couple minutes. Heck, I've crossed the magic kingdom in less time than it took them to respond. And I was just getting my paper fastpasses.

It would be an additional expense that would need to be offset by higher revenue.

 

[lilypgirl]

They acted like animals probably not the first time and most likely won't be the last time. They are trash to behave in that way and the two fat ladies flopping on the ground after barley being touched are an ambulance chasers dreams ! I wonder how many times they have slipped in Wal Mart or found a hair in their food at In an Out Burger. They are bottom feeders and shame on Disney if they ever let this people back in any of the parks or on their properties.