Covid Vaccine Updates and General Discussion About Vaccines

[Shouldigo12]

The AstraZeneca Covid Vaccine Data Isn't Up to Snuff

There's been even more good news this week, this time from the Oxford-AstraZeneca trials. But a closer look reveals some very shaky science.

www.wired.com

This article lays out some possible issues with the Oxford vaccine trial, and why we may to be a little more cautious with this one than the Pfizer and Moderns vaccines.

 

[Shouldigo12]

The side effects are similar to a flu shot, but people do need to be made aware of that. You don’t want to scare off too many people, but at the same time if people get the first shot and then have a reaction and because of that don’t go back for the second shot the vaccine won’t be effective and we will have wasted it. It’s tough to strike a balance between preparing people for the short term negative reaction and scaring them away, but I think they need a good PR campaign to say you may feel a little unwell, but not anywhere close to as bad as you would with actual covid.

Adverse reactions you aren't expecting are a little terrifying. I got the pneomonia vaccine a few years back, and the nurse messed up the shot. Instead of the slight fatigue and tenderness I was told I would experience, I could barely move my arm, had a lump the size of a tennis ball on my arm, and felt like I was hit by a dump truck. I still have scar tissue where I got the vaccine, big enough that it can easily be felt through the skin. I was a mess while this was happening; this was not at all what I was told what would happen, and I worried something really terrible had gone wrong. It actually put me off vaccinations as a whole for awhile. Not because I thought they didn't work or weren't necessary, but because I was worried it would get botched again.

Obviously, my case is a little different since it wasn't the actual vaccine that caused the side effects, but the application. But I do know what it's like to have unexpected, unpleasant side effects. People need to know how they should expect to feel after that vaccine, or they're going to be ever more against it than they already are.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Adverse reactions you aren't expecting are a little terrifying. I got the pneomonia vaccine a few years back, and the nurse messed up the shot. Instead of the slight fatigue and tenderness I was told I would experience, I could barely move my arm, had a lump the size of a tennis ball on my arm, and felt like I was hit by a dump truck. I still have scar tissue where I got the vaccine, big enough that it can easily be felt through the skin. I was a mess while this was happening; this was not at all what I was told what would happen, and I worried something really terrible had gone wrong. It actually put me off vaccinations as a whole for awhile. Not because I thought they didn't work or weren't necessary, but because I was worried it would get botched again.

Obviously, my case is a little different since it wasn't the actual vaccine that caused the side effects, but the application. But I do know what it's like to have unexpected, unpleasant side effects. People need to know how they should expect to feel after that vaccine, or they're going to be ever more against it than they already are

Agreed, one of the problems is that it's such a delicate balancing act on so many fronts. First, us darn humans are so different it's virtually impossible to cover every side effect that could possibly occur. Next unfortunately because this is pretty virulent pademic we've suspended some of the normal routines on drug research. I'm in research and development and I can only imagine the man power and money these companies have dished out to get us to this point.
Next of course is the fear of the unknown and human nature. for some reason people tend to see the glass "half empty" when it comes to new drugs and medicine and then there is the "I knew a person who" syndrome that lends to wariness.

LOL, I'm african american and I can't tell you the number of friends and family who say they are not getting the shot because of the Tuskegee syphillis experiment. they all swear that the government is "experimenting" on us. when I mention that was 1934 and that we've come a bit further they look at me like I've lost my marbles.

I think your fears are pretty normal and understandable.

 

[Disney Experience]

I could be off base, but I thought there was something in the warp speed program that shelters companies from liability due to adverse reactions to the vaccine and has the federal government take that liability. Not sure if that applies to a company that would require its employees to get the vaccine too. I agree it’s unlikely that vaccines will be required anywhere except maybe medical and first responders and possibly schools, but so much of what has happened in 2020 was unlikely yet here we are. Anything could be on the table.

Vaccine (even without warp speed) have special laws in the USA. In order to promote vaccine development, people cannot generally sue a pharmaceutical company for vaccine after 1988.

(a)General rule
Except as provided in subsections (b), (c), and (e) State law shall apply to a civil action brought for damages for a vaccine-related injury or death.
(b)Unavoidable adverse side effects; warnings
(1)
No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings.
(2)For purposes of paragraph (1), a vaccine shall be presumed to be accompanied by proper directions and warnings if the vaccine manufacturer shows that it complied in all material respects with all requirements under the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act [21 U.S.C. 301 et seq.] and section 262 of this title (including regulations issued under such provisions) applicable to the vaccine and related to vaccine-related injury or death for which the civil action was brought unless the plaintiff shows—
(A)
that the manufacturer engaged in the conduct set forth in subparagraph (A) or (B) of section 300aa–23(d)(2) of this title, or
(B)
by clear and convincing evidence that the manufacturer failed to exercise due care notwithstanding its compliance with such Act and section (and regulations issued under such provisions).
(c)Direct warnings
No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, solely due to the manufacturer’s failure to provide direct warnings to the injured party (or the injured party’s legal representative) of the potential dangers resulting from the administration of the vaccine manufactured by the manufacturer.
(d)Construction
The standards of responsibility prescribed by this section are not to be construed as authorizing a person who brought a civil action for damages against a vaccine manufacturer for a vaccine-related injury or death in which damages were denied or which was dismissed with prejudice to bring a new civil action against such manufacturer for such injury or death.
(e)Preemption
No State may establish or enforce a law which prohibits an individual from bringing a civil action against a vaccine manufacturer for damages for a vaccine-related injury or death if such civil action is not barred by this part.

 

[GoofGoof]

For our friends north of the border or anyone else interested here’s a quick update on Canada’s vaccine plans:

EXPLAINER-How will Canada's COVID-19 vaccine program work?

Canada has ordered more COVID-19 vaccine doses per capita than any other country - at least 194 million and up to 414 million doses for its population of 38 million. With limited manufacturing capacity, six of the vaccines the country has ordered will have to be imported and the first are...

finance.yahoo.com

For anyone who wasn’t aware and thought warp speed in the US was a unique program Canada has contracted to buy enough doses to vaccinate their entire population 5 times over. Similar to the US, UK and EU they plan to donate excess doses to poorer nations if all of the possible vaccine candidates come through. Here’s to hoping the vaccines work out for all of us and we will see each other at WDW as soon as the Spring or this summer

 

[GoofGoof]

Interesting update Steve had on the main page and a thread here on International Flights:

International Air Transport Association developing digital health pass to reopen international air travel without quarantine

https://www.wdwmagic.com/other/walt-disney-company/news/25nov2020-international-air-transport-association-developing-digital-health-pass-to-reopen-international-air-travel.htm

forums.wdwmagic.com

In summary, The International Air Transport Association (IATA) has announced that it is in the final development phase of the IATA Travel Pass, a digital health pass that it says will support the safe reopening of borders without the need for quarantine. This is basically something similar to the Ticketmaster plan for concerts and sporting events. It looks like this type of thing could catch on in order to get travel going again next summer.

 

[correcaminos]

Doctors say CDC should warn people the side effects from Covid vaccine shots won't be 'a walk in the park'

Doctors urge the CDC to be transparent about the side effects people may experience after getting their first shot of a coronavirus vaccine.

www.cnbc.com

I saw this and while it is more than a flu shot (I had mine 2 weeks after last trial shot) it is not a shot one needs to take time off from. Like seriously who writes that crap? I wish they could unblind studies so we can be voices with 100% certainty and tell it like it is.

 

[GoofGoof]

I saw this and while it is more than a flu shot (I had mine 2 weeks after last trial shot) it is not a shot one needs to take time off from. Like seriously who writes that crap? I wish they could unblind studies so we can be voices with 100% certainty and tell it like it is.

I think for the PR campaign they need to pick some celebrity volunteers. High profile media members, pro athletes, actors, social media influencer types and have them get vaccinated in the very beginning and then document their experiences. I think that would go a long way toward showing people exactly what they are in for. The NBA would be an interesting experiment. The season kicks off just before Christmas so maybe have a few high profile stars or even whole teams get vaccinated. If people see guys running up and down the court without issue that could go a long way towards making the public comfortable it won’t be so bad.

 

[danlb_2000]

The side effects are similar to a flu shot, but people do need to be made aware of that. You don’t want to scare off too many people, but at the same time if people get the first shot and then have a reaction and because of that don’t go back for the second shot the vaccine won’t be effective and we will have wasted it. It’s tough to strike a balance between preparing people for the short term negative reaction and scaring them away, but I think they need a good PR campaign to say you may feel a little unwell, but not anywhere close to as bad as you would with actual covid.

I haven't seen anything yet about what percentage of people suffer these side effects. I know some people have side effects when they get the flu vaccine, but I personally don't recall ever having any side effects in all the years I have been getting it.

 

[GoofGoof]

I haven't seen anything yet about what percentage of people suffer these side effects. I know some people have side effects when they get the flu vaccine, but I personally don't recall ever having any side effects in all the years I have been getting it.

I never have either but I know a few people who swear that they got the flu from the shot. No matter how many people tell them it’s not possible they believe it anyway because they felt the immune response. Before this year I always got mine at the office and finished out the work day no issues. I sometimes worry there’s something wrong with my immune system because I don’t have a reaction, but I’ve also not had the flu since I started getting shots so I guess it’s working, who knows. For the Covid vaccine I can’t imagine the reaction could be worse than the last 9 months (plus probably 6 more before I actually get it) of living through this pandemic.

 

[danlb_2000]

I never have either but I know a few people who swear that they got the flu from the shot. No matter how many people tell them it’s not possible they believe it anyway because they felt the immune response. Before this year I always got mine at the office and finished out the work day no issues. I sometimes worry there’s something wrong with my immune system because I don’t have a reaction, but I’ve also not had the flu since I started getting shots so I guess it’s working, who knows. For the Covid vaccine I can’t imagine the reaction could be worse than the last 9 months (plus probably 6 more before I actually get it) of living through this pandemic.

I had pretty much the same experience, I used to get the flu a lot but since I have been getting the vaccine I only remember one year when I had a bad flu. My office normally provides flu shots but was not able to this year since we were working remote, so they gave everyone who submitted proof of vaccination a Amazon gift card.

 

[IanDLBZF]

Seminole, Osceola leaders discuss COVID-19 vaccine distribution plans

There is promising news of a COVID-19 vaccine on the horizon but Central Florida emergency management leaders said there are also plenty of unanswered questions.

www.clickorlando.com

 

[GoofGoof]

Updated timeline on the vaccine development:

Here are the key milestones ahead before vaccines reach the public​

• By Friday: The FDA is expected to release a Federal Register notice with details about its upcoming meeting to discuss Pfizer's EUA request. At that time, the public is invited to submit comments.
• End of November: Moderna is expected to submit its EUA request any day now. When announcing its results, Moderna said to expect an EUA application "in the coming weeks." Given the speed of Pfizer's filing, it's reasonable to assume that Moderna will do so by the end of the month.
• December 8: The FDA will release briefing materials for its meeting about Pfizer's vaccine.
• December 10: An FDA advisory committee made up of independent scientific experts will meet to evaluate Pfizer's EUA request. The meeting will be streamed on the FDA website and on its YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter channels. Pfizer will present its safety and efficacy data, then answer questions. After that, the advisory committee will make a recommendation on whether to greenlight the vaccine. The FDA is likely to follow the committee's advice, and the vaccine could be authorized within the same day.
• December 11-12: Once Pfizer's vaccine is authorized, Americans could start receiving shots within 24 to 48 hours. An advisory committee to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is expected to finalize guidelines about which Americans will get priority access. First in line will likely be frontline healthcare workers and people at highest risk of becoming critically ill, such as elderly Americans with preexisting health conditions.
• Mid-December: Assuming Moderna files its EUA request by the end of November, an FDA advisory committee will likely meet to evaluate it in mid-December. The vaccine could be authorized that same day, with Moderna shots going into people's arms 24 to 48 hours after that.

Pfizer and Moderna's 2021 vaccine timeline​

Moncef Slaoui, the chief advisor to Operation Warp Speed, has estimated that 20 million Americans could get a COVID-19 shot before the end of 2020. In each subsequent month after that, another 25 to 30 million Americans could get vaccinated, he said.

That would put the US on track to vaccinate roughly 70 million to 80 million people — as much as a quarter of the population — by the end of February. By April, vaccines could start being distributed to young, healthy Americans.
Moderna CEO Stephane Bancel recently told Business Insider that any American who wants a vaccine should have access to one by Memorial Day. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease, has also said that the general population could have access to shots by late spring and early summer.

Your complete coronavirus vaccine calendar: When Moderna's candidate is likely to get authorized, and when you could receive your Pfizer shot

Pfizer's shot received emergency authorization on Friday. Moderna's shot could be authorized within a week.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[IanDLBZF]

I saw this and while it is more than a flu shot (I had mine 2 weeks after last trial shot) it is not a shot one needs to take time off from. Like seriously who writes that crap? I wish they could unblind studies so we can be voices with 100% certainty and tell it like it is.

This is why CDC requires that Vaccine Information Statements be provided.

 

[GoofGoof]

From the same article above, update on other vaccine trials outside of Pfizer and Moderna:

What about other vaccine candidates?​

Operation Warp Speed has purchased 100 million doses of Pfizer's vaccine and another 100 million doses of Moderna's. The program hopes to distribute 400 to 450 million vaccine doses from now through May.

Slaoui told Bloomberg that "Plan A" is to distribute vaccines from two other companies — AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson — to help reach that goal. Though AstraZeneca's trials in Brazil and the UK showed positive data, the company hasn't yet released findings from its US trial.

Slaoui told Business Insider last month that he expects AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson's US trials to produce results in December or January. That could put them on track for authorization this winter. The US has already purchased 100 million doses from each company.

"Plan B," Slaoui told Bloomberg, is to order additional doses from Pfizer and Moderna. Agreements with the companies allow the US to acquire another 500 million doses from Pfizer and another 400 million doses from Moderna should it so choose.

The remaining two vaccine candidates backed by Warp Speed come from Novavax and a Sanofi/GlaxoSmithKline partnership. If the companies have trouble finding enough Americans to join their trials once a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine hits the market, Slaoui told Bloomberg, the trials might recruit volunteers in other countries. Both are expected to release pivotal data about their vaccine candidates in early 2021.

If those two vaccines get authorized — that would most likely happen in the spring — the US is prepared to distribute 100 million doses of each as well.

 

[correcaminos]

This is why CDC requires that Vaccine Information Statements be provided.

I think you are missing my point. This article is nothing more than a scare tactic. Possibly with a hidden agenda. Who are people going to listen to? By the time they read a statement bad has already been imprinted which will do bad things for developing trust.

I think for the PR campaign they need to pick some celebrity volunteers. High profile media members, pro athletes, actors, social media influencer types and have them get vaccinated in the very beginning and then document their experiences. I think that would go a long way toward showing people exactly what they are in for. The NBA would be an interesting experiment. The season kicks off just before Christmas so maybe have a few high profile stars or even whole teams get vaccinated. If people see guys running up and down the court without issue that could go a long way towards making the public comfortable it won’t be so bad.

I think something like that would be good too! We need lots of people who have had the vaccines be able to be honest about it. I told my hygenist to consider with her job to get it on a Thursday or Friday so the arm thing won't be in the way, but her arms are in less comfortable positions doing work. Someone at a desk job? Nah, they'll likely be fine.

I question that timeline a little. If most have vaccinations in May why so long to reach immunity since it takes one week after 2nd dose to get the 95%...

 

[GoofGoof]

I think you are missing my point. This article is nothing more than a scare tactic. Possibly with a hidden agenda. Who are people going to listen to? By the time they read a statement bad has already been imprinted which will do bad things for developing trust.


I think something like that would be good too! We need lots of people who have had the vaccines be able to be honest about it. I told my hygenist to consider with her job to get it on a Thursday or Friday so the arm thing won't be in the way, but her arms are in less comfortable positions doing work. Someone at a desk job? Nah, they'll likely be fine.

I question that timeline a little. If most have vaccinations in May why so long to reach immunity since it takes one week after 2nd dose to get the 95%...

I have a desk job but can easily type with one hand ...plus if it got real bad I have more PTO days than I know what to do with.

I think the timelines are all over the place. The warp speed guys seem to be overly optimistic on Spring being when everyone will be able to get it, but then you have others saying fall 2021. I don’t know if that’s hedging their bets, assuming issues with distribution or a legit prediction on how long it will take. I think some of the messaging around fall is to set expectations low due to fear of people wanting to abandon all Covid restrictions once the vaccine starts rolling out.

I’m with you that I am hopeful we can effectively reach the point where the R naught is below 1 once we get to around 2/3 of the population vaccinated if not sooner. I believe the technical definition of herd immunity is reducing spread to the point where 1 infected person infects less than 1 new person (or R naught under 1). So while we may reach technical herd immunity we won’t be at zero cases. In theory the number of cases should steadily decline, eventually to zero...see New Zealand which reached that point without a vaccine. It may be fall or winter 2021 until we reach that zero level all over the country and that doesn’t mean we won’t have pockets of outbreak especially in communities that are more resistant to the vaccine.

For practical purposes once we reach technical herd immunity and the vaccine is available to anyone who wants it I think we will see Covid restrictions start being removed. If we don’t get enough people vaccinated for whatever reason that’s the scenario I could see it taking into fall/winter to see restrictions removed. I do think the vast majority of people are very anxious to get out of this pandemic and get back to normal life so once people who are on the fence see millions going before them and hopefully not having serious adverse reactions they will get on board and get the shot.

 

[correcaminos]

I have a desk job but can easily type with one hand ...plus if it got real bad I have more PTO days than I know what to do with.

I think the timelines are all over the place. The warp speed guys seem to be overly optimistic on Spring being when everyone will be able to get it, but then you have others saying fall 2021. I don’t know if that’s hedging their bets, assuming issues with distribution or a legit prediction on how long it will take. I think some of the messaging around fall is to set expectations low due to fear of people wanting to abandon all Covid restrictions once the vaccine starts rolling out.

I’m with you that I am hopeful we can effectively reach the point where the R naught is below 1 once we get to around 2/3 of the population vaccinated if not sooner. I believe the technical definition of herd immunity is reducing spread to the point where 1 infected person infects less than 1 new person (or R naught under 1). So while we may reach technical herd immunity we won’t be at zero cases. In theory the number of cases should steadily decline, eventually to zero...see New Zealand which reached that point without a vaccine. It may be fall or winter 2021 until we reach that zero level all over the country and that doesn’t mean we won’t have pockets of outbreak especially in communities that are more resistant to the vaccine.

For practical purposes once we reach technical herd immunity and the vaccine is available to anyone who wants it I think we will see Covid restrictions start being removed. If we don’t get enough people vaccinated for whatever reason that’s the scenario I could see it taking into fall/winter to see restrictions removed. I do think the vast majority of people are very anxious to get out of this pandemic and get back to normal life so once people who are on the fence see millions going before them and hopefully not having serious adverse reactions they will get on board and get the shot.

On phone as my bigger screen is taken by a family zoom. So short and to the point here... valid points. And maybe why fall. Hope you are right about the stragglers.

 

[GoofGoof]

On phone as my bigger screen is taken by a family zoom. So short and to the point here... valid points. And maybe why fall. Hope you are right about the stragglers.

The stragglers either fall in line or I go door to door and sing until they cave in and get it...I know the theme song for every 80s and 90s sitcom and can’t carry a tune to save my life. We’re heading towards near full participation

Happy Thanksgiving to you and all. Stay safe and enjoy

 

[correcaminos]

The stragglers either fall in line or I go door to door and sing until they cave in and get it...I know the theme song for every 80s and 90s sitcom and can’t carry a tune to save my life. We’re heading towards near full participation

Happy Thanksgiving to you and all. Stay safe and enjoy!

Love this so much! I'll join you and intentionally sing in an awful way along with you!

Thank you and a Happy Thanksgiving to you!