Covid Vaccine Updates and General Discussion About Vaccines

[MisterPenguin]

I don’t know, or even care much, what the FDA are doing. It doesn’t impact me. I was talking about the MHRA which is the U.K. agency that does much the same thing I guess at the FDA.

What you said was:

1. The FDA reviews a company's raw data which takes more time than what the UK is doing, which is trusting the company.

Incorrect, the MHRA has been doing that since the start with the early raw data, and yes they have been getting the data. As have other EU countries that were contributors to the vaccine development.

2. People complain that they're not going to trust a rushed vaccine and here you are advocating for a rushed vaccine.

Implying that the U.K. is rushing approval, when it just means that the U.K., along with other EU countries, have perhaps had a head start when it comes to analysing the data, since they provided financial backing.

I apologize that I took what you were saying about the MHRA as being related to the FDA.

However, it is disconcerting that you would say you don't care what the FDA is doing because I was responding to someone questioning the difference between the US and UK approaches. And if you're going to wade into a compare and contrast between two things... you should know something about both things.

I said the FDA looks at raw data.

You said the MHRA does the same thing and has been doing it all along.

I can't find anything to support what you say about the MHRA. The New York Times quotes an expert who makes the point that the MHRA trusts the analysis of the raw data given to them in reports by the manufacturer. That is different from looking and analyzing the raw data themselves from scratch. It seems the MHRA is looking at Pfizer's analysis of the raw data and trusting their summaries. The FDA painstakingly looks at every data point and makes their own reports.

American and British regulators also conduct their vaccine reviews differently, Dr. Ward said. American regulators ask vaccine makers for raw data, which the F.D.A. reanalyzes to validate company results. Regulators in Britain and elsewhere in Europe rely more heavily on the companies’ own reports, Dr. Ward said, though they reserve the right to verify their accuracy.​

Britain Set to Leap Ahead in Approving Vaccines (Published 2020)

Regulators may approve the troubled AstraZeneca vaccine and the American-made Pfizer shot weeks before the U.S. does so.

www.nytimes.com

 

[nickys]

I apologize that I took what you were saying about the MHRA as being related to the FDA.

However, it is disconcerting that you would say you don't care what the FDA is doing because I was responding to someone questioning the difference between the US and UK approaches. And if you're going to wade into a compare and contrast between two things... you should know something about both things.

I said the FDA looks at raw data.

You said the MHRA does the same thing and has been doing it all along.

I can't find anything to support what you say about the MHRA. The New York Times quotes an expert who makes the point that the MHRA trusts the analysis of the raw data given to them in reports by the manufacturer. That is different from looking and analyzing the raw data themselves from scratch. It seems the MHRA is looking at Pfizer's analysis of the raw data and trusting their summaries. The FDA painstakingly looks at every data point and makes their own reports.

American and British regulators also conduct their vaccine reviews differently, Dr. Ward said. American regulators ask vaccine makers for raw data, which the F.D.A. reanalyzes to validate company results. Regulators in Britain and elsewhere in Europe rely more heavily on the companies’ own reports, Dr. Ward said, though they reserve the right to verify their accuracy.​

Britain Set to Leap Ahead in Approving Vaccines (Published 2020)

Regulators may approve the troubled AstraZeneca vaccine and the American-made Pfizer shot weeks before the U.S. does so.

www.nytimes.com

I was concerned about your comments about the U.K. approval.

Ironic, perhaps, that the NY Times publishes something containing information about the MHRA which no one in the U.K. can verify because we aren’t allowed to read it.

Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine: MHRA statement

The safety of the public will always come first.

www.gov.uk

MAP – The Market Access Specialists.

Market Access Consultants, Market Access Specialists, Market Access Services, Market Access Experts.

mapbiopharma.com

 

[TheGuyThatMakesSwords]

The Elephant in the room....

Has anyone seen any DATA, regarding the official COVID immunization CARDS, that every airline, Restaurant, and WDW facility, is going to demand, prior to service or entry?

We are going to be pinning these to our shirts . No problem with it.... just asking where the "papers" are .

 

[MisterPenguin]

The Elephant in the room....

Has anyone seen any DATA, regarding the official COVID immunization CARDS, that every airline, Restaurant, and WDW facility, is going to demand, prior to service or entry?

We are going to be pinning these to our shirts . No problem with it.... just asking where the "papers" are .

It'll be a bar code tattooed to our foreheads.

 

[GoofGoof]

The Elephant in the room....

Has anyone seen any DATA, regarding the official COVID immunization CARDS, that every airline, Restaurant, and WDW facility, is going to demand, prior to service or entry?

We are going to be pinning these to our shirts . No problem with it.... just asking where the "papers" are .

It will be an app...and if you don’t have a smart phone you will be forced to stay at home until you come to your senses and buy one

Sent from my iPhone

 

[danlb_2000]

The Elephant in the room....

Has anyone seen any DATA, regarding the official COVID immunization CARDS, that every airline, Restaurant, and WDW facility, is going to demand, prior to service or entry?

We are going to be pinning these to our shirts . No problem with it.... just asking where the "papers" are .

What data are you looking for? It's a card that shows the date you received each dose, which company and lot it came from and where it was administered.

 

[correcaminos]

The Elephant in the room....

Has anyone seen any DATA, regarding the official COVID immunization CARDS, that every airline, Restaurant, and WDW facility, is going to demand, prior to service or entry?

We are going to be pinning these to our shirts . No problem with it.... just asking where the "papers" are .

Considering we don't know who will all demand things, I don't think anyone knows. An easy option would be a card that could be scanned and an app as well. As a parent I have easy access to records for my kids vaccinations for proof when needed.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Maybe we'll see a return of the little yellow vaccination booklets? These faded away as medical records became more electronic, but it seems now we may once again need an easily portable verification system.

 

[COrunner]

As long as I've been alive if you want to visit a foreign nation(Save pre-9/11 Canada and Mexico), you needed a passport.
You want to drive? In the US you get a license
Want a job? Fill this out with your social security number
Want to fly? Let me see that drivers license/passport/ID
I didn't realize you could book a Disney reservation by mailing cash and not using a credit card which again asks for combos of the information above (And yes I'm sure if we are going down this road you could use a travel agent who will take cash, then book your reservation under your other name and you flash your fake ID at check-in...)

The means of tracking or obtaining information about someone or registering yourself have been around for years. If getting the shot means I carry a booklet, card, app, whatever and doing so allows me to go to the parks or enter a restaurant then so be it. I'm all but assuming if we get to go back for Halloween and take our Holiday Disney cruise in 2021 that having some kind of vaccination record on hand is going to be mandatory.

It does frustrate me that I'm hearing 'When you get injected of course they will mark you... WITH THE SIGN OF THE BEAST' or 'You know that soon they will say wear this tag on your body or clothes to mark you as vaccinated ALONG WITH THE OTHER SHEEP' as if the global pandemic is giving governments/satan/world war III dictator/aliens everything they need to control you.

 

[GoofGoof]

As long as I've been alive if you want to visit a foreign nation(Save pre-9/11 Canada and Mexico), you needed a passport.
You want to drive? In the US you get a license
Want a job? Fill this out with your social security number
Want to fly? Let me see that drivers license/passport/ID
I didn't realize you could book a Disney reservation by mailing cash and not using a credit card which again asks for combos of the information above (And yes I'm sure if we are going down this road you could use a travel agent who will take cash, then book your reservation under your other name and you flash your fake ID at check-in...)

The means of tracking or obtaining information about someone or registering yourself have been around for years. If getting the shot means I carry a booklet, card, app, whatever and doing so allows me to go to the parks or enter a restaurant then so be it. I'm all but assuming if we get to go back for Halloween and take our Holiday Disney cruise in 2021 that having some kind of vaccination record on hand is going to be mandatory.

It does frustrate me that I'm hearing 'When you get injected of course they will mark you... WITH THE SIGN OF THE BEAST' or 'You know that soon they will say wear this tag on your body or clothes to mark you as vaccinated ALONG WITH THE OTHER SHEEP' as if the global pandemic is giving governments/satan/world war III dictator/aliens everything they need to control you.

I’m ok with being controlled*...just give me my vaccine and some dole whip

* Not by satan...but aliens are OK, that’s where I draw the line

I would have zero issue carrying a card or having an app or whatever to do certain things. I miss concerts and pro sports games as well as travel and WDW. I’d gladly follow whatever it takes to get to those things again after being vaccinated. I’m not sure why anyone would worry about hiding the fact they were vaccinated.

 

[correcaminos]

As long as I've been alive if you want to visit a foreign nation(Save pre-9/11 Canada and Mexico), you needed a passport.
You want to drive? In the US you get a license
Want a job? Fill this out with your social security number
Want to fly? Let me see that drivers license/passport/ID
I didn't realize you could book a Disney reservation by mailing cash and not using a credit card which again asks for combos of the information above (And yes I'm sure if we are going down this road you could use a travel agent who will take cash, then book your reservation under your other name and you flash your fake ID at check-in...)

The means of tracking or obtaining information about someone or registering yourself have been around for years. If getting the shot means I carry a booklet, card, app, whatever and doing so allows me to go to the parks or enter a restaurant then so be it. I'm all but assuming if we get to go back for Halloween and take our Holiday Disney cruise in 2021 that having some kind of vaccination record on hand is going to be mandatory.

It does frustrate me that I'm hearing 'When you get injected of course they will mark you... WITH THE SIGN OF THE BEAST' or 'You know that soon they will say wear this tag on your body or clothes to mark you as vaccinated ALONG WITH THE OTHER SHEEP' as if the global pandemic is giving governments/satan/world war III dictator/aliens everything they need to control you.

I need to find temporary tattoos with the mark to put on now.
Maybe say some keloids on my arm are really microchips.
Just to show how ridiculous it all is.

 

[Dog Ate Mouse]

I just read this on Fox news today:

Moderna states it's vaccine is going to give us immunity for three months from the time the second injection is given to you. Now I read this again to make sure that I did not misread. So what good is this Vaccine if we only get 3 months off immunity. This is very disappointing to hear. So how in the world would this work. Lets say NJ get everyone inoculated in three months and other parts of the country in 7 to 12 months. Does this mean New Jersey is on the hook to possibly contract the virus again. I am not a Doctor or claim to be. I can only go by what I read and have questions answered by true medical professionals. I was hoping to hear a year so we could start to get back to normal. At this rate it will take quite a few years if ever again. Just ranting here. Like I said I am like everyone else and not a health care professional or a doctor.

 

[danlb_2000]

I just read this on Fox news today:

Moderna states it's vaccine is going to give us immunity for three months from the time the second injection is given to you. Now I read this again to make sure that I did not misread. So what good is this Vaccine if we only get 3 months off immunity. This is very disappointing to hear. So how in the world would this work. Lets say NJ get everyone inoculated in three months and other parts of the country in 7 to 12 months. Does this mean New Jersey is on the hook to possibly contract the virus again. I am not a Doctor or claim to be. I can only go by what I read and have questions answered by true medical professionals. I was hoping to hear a year so we could start to get back to normal. At this rate it will take quite a few years if ever again. Just ranting here. Like I said I am like everyone else and not a health care professional or a doctor.

Two reasons not to be concerned about this. First, they said AT LEAST three months, because they tested people who got their second shot three months ago and they still had antibodies. The vaccine hasn't been around long enough to do a longer study. Even if the antibodies do drop off, that is normal, even from a natural infection. You body learns how to rapidly produce new antibodies if there is re-infection.

 

[GoofGoof]

I just read this on Fox news today:

Moderna states it's vaccine is going to give us immunity for three months from the time the second injection is given to you. Now I read this again to make sure that I did not misread. So what good is this Vaccine if we only get 3 months off immunity. This is very disappointing to hear. So how in the world would this work. Lets say NJ get everyone inoculated in three months and other parts of the country in 7 to 12 months. Does this mean New Jersey is on the hook to possibly contract the virus again. I am not a Doctor or claim to be. I can only go by what I read and have questions answered by true medical professionals. I was hoping to hear a year so we could start to get back to normal. At this rate it will take quite a few years if ever again. Just ranting here. Like I said I am like everyone else and not a health care professional or a doctor.

They are not saying it only lasts 3 months. They are saying it lasts at least 3 months (so far) as that’s the longest data they have because the first phase 3 injections were 3 months ago. They are not saying it’s gone after 3 months. Here’s the relevant section:

The jab involves a two-dose regimen, administered 28 days apart. At the 100-microgram (μg) dose, the vaccine "produced high levels of binding and neutralizing antibodies that declined slightly over time, as expected, but they remained elevated in all participants 3 months after the booster [second] vaccination," the doctors wrote. The levels of antibodies among trial participants also "exceeded" that of 41 recovering COVID-19 patients in a control group.

There have been some studies on the SARS outbreak in China that showed 17 years later some of the people who were infected still have a high level of anti-bodies. Covid is a similar coronavirus to SARS. It isn’t known how long these anti-bodies will last or whether they protect you completely from infection but from everything I’ve read, based on the level of decline in phase 1 trial participants and animals studied they can extrapolate out that the outlook is positive that a vaccine may last years or even potentially lifetime. If it’s years we may need a booster periodically if the virus mutates or if a strong infection swells up, but it may not even be an annual shot.

 

[Dog Ate Mouse]

Moderna vaccine confers at least 3 months immunity: study​

The Moderna vaccine will be reviewed by an advisory committee of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) on December 17, and could be green lit for emergency approval soon after
The Moderna COVID-19 vaccine, which the company says was recently demonstrated to have 94 percent efficacy, causes the human immune system to produce potent antibodies that endure for at least three months, a study showed Thursday.

Researchers at the National Institute for Allergies and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), which co-developed the drug, studied the immune response of 34 adult participants, young and old, from the first stage of a clinical trial.
Writing in the New England Journal of Medicine, they said that the antibodies, which stop the SARS-CoV-2 virus from invading human cells, "declined slightly over time, as expected, but they remained elevated in all participants 3 months after the booster vaccination."
The vaccine, called mRNA-1273, is administered in two injections given 28 days apart.
Even though the number of antibodies in the study subjects faded over time, it is not necessarily a cause for concern.
NIAID director Anthony Fauci and other experts have said it is very likely that the immune system will remember the virus if re-exposed later on, and then produce new antibodies.
Encouragingly, the study showed that the vaccine activated a certain type of immune cell that should help out in the so-called memory response, but only longer term study will confirm if this will really be the case.
"Positives from the study include evidence that a relatively strong antibody response remains 90 days after the second dose of the vaccine," said virologist Benjamin Neuman, a virologist at Texas A&M University-Texarkana.
"The amount of vaccine-produced antibodies was higher in younger patients than in older patients, but reasonably strong immune responses were still seen even in patients up to 70 years of age."
The Moderna vaccine will be reviewed by an advisory committee of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) on December 17, and could be green lit for emergency approval soon after.
Like another vaccine produced by Pfizer and BioNTech, it is based on a new technology that uses genetic material in the form of mRNA (messenger ribonucleic acid).
The mRNA is encased in a lipid molecule and injected into the arm, where it causes cells inside our muscles to build a surface protein of the coronavirus.
This tricks the immune system into believing it's been infected with a microbe, and trains it to build the right kind of antibodies for when it encounters the real virus.

 

[HongKongFooy]

Time to get this vaccine circulated 'cause I'm gettin' a bit tired of eating celery, cucumbers and carrots. I've had enough of coffee, too. And walking around J. Rohde style is old also.

 

[Dog Ate Mouse]

They are not saying it only lasts 3 months. They are saying it lasts at least 3 months (so far) as that’s the longest data they have because the first phase 3 injections were 3 months ago. They are not saying it’s gone after 3 months. Here’s the relevant section:



There have been some studies on the SARS outbreak in China that showed 17 years later some of the people who were infected still have a high level of anti-bodies. Covid is a similar coronavirus to SARS. It isn’t known how long these anti-bodies will last or whether they protect you completely from infection but from everything I’ve read, based on the level of decline in phase 1 trial participants and animals studied they can extrapolate out that the outlook is positive that a vaccine may last years or even potentially lifetime. If it’s years we may need a booster periodically if the virus mutates or if a strong infection swells up, but it may not even be an annual shot.

Hence why I said I am not a doctor or a medical professional. I honestly hope this is all true and could possibly one and done or requires a booster shot much later down the road. I did post on what I was reading. I do not comprehend medical all that well and always ask my doctor questions

 

[GoofGoof]

Hence why I said I am not a doctor or a medical professional. I honestly hope this is all true and could possibly one and done or requires a booster shot much later down the road. I did post on what I was reading. I do not comprehend medical all that well and always ask my doctor questions

I’m no doctor or scientist either and I know way more now (since Covid) about vaccines than I ever wanted to know . I take it to be generally good news on the virus front that we haven’t seen major mutations or variations in the virus that would make it less susceptible to a vaccine. With its asymptomatic infections, long incubation period and general ease of spread Covid has seemed to be almost the perfect bug to turn into a worldwide pandemic. The good news is that we finally found a flaw, it appears to be very susceptible to vaccination, at least in clinical trials. The 90-95% efficacy is well beyond what most people hoped for and could be a good sign for the additional vaccine candidates. Some viruses like HIV aren’t easily vaccinated against. Let’s hope this one is. I think worst case scenario is Covid becomes an annual shot similar to the flu vaccine which I can definitely live with.

 

[Disney Experience]

I’m no doctor or scientist either and I know way more now (since Covid) about vaccines than I ever wanted to know . I take it to be generally good news on the virus front that we haven’t seen major mutations or variations in the virus that would make it less susceptible to a vaccine. With its asymptomatic infections, long incubation period and general ease of spread Covid has seemed to be almost the perfect bug to turn into a worldwide pandemic. The good news is that we finally found a flaw, it appears to be very susceptible to vaccination, at least in clinical trials. The 90-95% efficacy is well beyond what most people hoped for and could be a good sign for the additional vaccine candidates. Some viruses like HIV aren’t easily vaccinated against. Let’s hope this one is. I think worst case scenario is Covid becomes an annual shot similar to the flu vaccine which I can definitely live with.

Yes it is good that there are not new vaccine resistant mutation of the virus. The spike proteins that the vaccines are targeting is a critical key to the virus's ability to enter human cells. If it changes too much it may not work as a key to enter the cells. So a virus will have to change the spike protein enough for the body to no longer recognize it, but not in a way to make it dysfunctional.

Sooner we get the World vaccinated, the less virus will exist that can have a chance to mutate in an effective (For the virus) way. The vaccine will be causing a selective bias to a mutation that can deal with the vaccine, but if we are lucky and get a lot of people vaccinated we may win the race and effectively eliminate the virus (We did this for smallpox, and have almost done it for polio). If not and it mutates in an effective way often enough, or we leave a reservoir of the virus by not getting a high level of vaccination around the globe, then we may have to adjust and revaccinate at times.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Yes it is good that there are not new vaccine resistant mutation of the virus. The spike proteins that the vaccines are targeting is a critical key to the virus's ability to enter human cells. If it changes too much it may not work as a key to enter the cells. So a virus will have to change the spike protein enough for the body to no longer recognize it, but not in a way to make it dysfunctional.

Sooner we get the World vaccinated, the less virus will exist that can have a chance to mutate in an effective (For the virus) way. The vaccine will be causing a selective bias to a mutation that can deal with the vaccine, but if we are lucky and get a lot of people vaccinated we may win the race and effectively eliminate the virus (We did this for smallpox, and have almost done it for polio). If not and it mutates in an effective way often enough, or we leave a reservoir of the virus by not getting a high level of vaccination around the globe, then we may have to adjust and revaccinate at times.

Sometimes, the virus mutation actually works to our advantage, if it weakens the protein function. In addition to the effective measures taken by public health agencies (including that evil WHO!), it is speculated that SARS-CoV-1 disappeared by basically mutating itself into extinction.