Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[ArmoredRodent]

What exactly were the plaintiffs claims?

First two (denied relief) were Safe Schools, 3 and 4 (granted relief) were separation of powers, and 5 (dismissed because the plaintiffs didn't actually sue the Dept of Health so the Court couldn't issue an order against them) was against DoH implementation of the Governor's mask ban order.

A nice summary of the claims from WFLA:

• Count 1 — No relief. Plaintiffs sought a declaration from the court that the governor’s executive order and “related actions or threatened actions” violated a state constitutional amendment approved by voters in 1998 that requires the state to provide “a uniform, efficient, safe, secure, and high quality system of free public schools.”
• Count 2 — No relief. Plaintiffs sought a similar declaration from the court as in count one, based on Article 9, Section 4 of the Florida Constitution, which states: “The school board shall operate, control and supervise all free public schools within the school district.”
• Count 3 — Judge granted relief. Plaintiffs argued the executive order “undermines schools’ safety and makes arbitrary and capricious demands on public schools in violation of the Florida constitution.” Attorneys argued the governor’s executive order was gratuitous and exceeded his authority.
• Count 4 — Judge granted relief. Plaintiffs argued the Department of Education exceeded its authority and that “the subject matter of public health matters, such as masking in schools, is appropriately within the authority of the Florida Department of Health.”
• Count 5 — Judge granted motion to dismiss in part. Plaintiffs argued the Department of Health emergency rule implementing the governor’s executive order also violated their rights under the state constitution.
• Count 6 — Judge granted relief. Request for Emergency Injunctive Relief. Plaintiffs sought to enjoin the governor’s executive order and all related directives from state agencies from going into effect.

 

[Heppenheimer]

First two (denied relief) were Safe Schools, 3 and 4 (granted relief) were separation of powers, and 5 (dismissed because the plaintiffs didn't actually sue the Dept of Health so the Court couldn't issue an order against them) was against DoH implementation of the Governor's mask ban order.

A nice summary of the claims from WFLA:

• Count 1 — No relief. Plaintiffs sought a declaration from the court that the governor’s executive order and “related actions or threatened actions” violated a state constitutional amendment approved by voters in 1998 that requires the state to provide “a uniform, efficient, safe, secure, and high quality system of free public schools.”
• Count 2 — No relief. Plaintiffs sought a similar declaration from the court as in count one, based on Article 9, Section 4 of the Florida Constitution, which states: “The school board shall operate, control and supervise all free public schools within the school district.”
• Count 3 — Judge granted relief. Plaintiffs argued the executive order “undermines schools’ safety and makes arbitrary and capricious demands on public schools in violation of the Florida constitution.” Attorneys argued the governor’s executive order was gratuitous and exceeded his authority.
• Count 4 — Judge granted relief. Plaintiffs argued the Department of Education exceeded its authority and that “the subject matter of public health matters, such as masking in schools, is appropriately within the authority of the Florida Department of Health.”
• Count 5 — Judge granted motion to dismiss in part. Plaintiffs argued the Department of Health emergency rule implementing the governor’s executive order also violated their rights under the state constitution.
• Count 6 — Judge granted relief. Request for Emergency Injunctive Relief. Plaintiffs sought to enjoin the governor’s executive order and all related directives from state agencies from going into effect.

Thanks.

Also, I found it intriguing that the very law used by DeSantis to support his executive order (the Parental Bill of Rights) was cited by the judge as actually supporting the plaintiffs case. Is this happen often?

 

[ArmoredRodent]

Also, I found it intriguing that the very law used by DeSantis to support his executive order (the Parental Bill of Rights) was cited by the judge as actually supporting the plaintiffs case. Is this happen often?

Happens all the time, more often as you move up in the appeals process. Part of the problem is that legislatures often/usually aren't very clear in what they write, but also there are often fights that we call "rights vs. rights," where the decision requires a lot of balancing. That's why people who say that Supreme Court cases are "clearly" right or wrong or easy make me laugh. By the time important public policy gets into court, there are, by definition, competing interests and points of view, all of which have to be, at least, first understood, then respected, considered and discussed.

Of course, there was that time, many years ago, when the Chief Justice of the Florida Supreme Court leaned over the bench, peered down at me, and said, "You're not from around here, son, and you don't understand." (But, I won that case anyway. )

 

[MisterPenguin]

It’s like there was an election or something going on.

It's over a year away. So... what was your point?

 

[DCBaker]

Another record caseload -

"Florida on Friday reported to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that 27,584 COVID-19 cases were added Thursday, according to Miami Herald calculations of CDC data.

The state also reported eight new deaths Thursday. In all, Florida has added at least 3,179,493 confirmed COVID cases statewide and 43,640 deaths.

The cases added on Thursday broke the state’s current single-day case total record. On Aug. 24 26,385 cases were added on a single day, according to Herald calculations of data provided by the CDC.

There were 16,457 people hospitalized for COVID-19 in Florida on Friday, according to data reported to the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services from 258 Florida hospitals. That is 376 fewer patients than Thursday’s COVID patient population.

COVID-19 patients also accounted for 28.17% of all hospital patients.

Of the hospitalized in Florida, 3,608 people were in intensive care unit beds, a decrease of 80. That represents 54.22% of the state’s ICU hospital beds from 258 hospitals reporting data."

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article253784623.html

 

[DisneyCane]

Another record caseload -

"Florida on Friday reported to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that 27,584 COVID-19 cases were added Thursday, according to Miami Herald calculations of CDC data.

The state also reported eight new deaths Thursday. In all, Florida has added at least 3,179,493 confirmed COVID cases statewide and 43,640 deaths.

The cases added on Thursday broke the state’s current single-day case total record. On Aug. 24 26,385 cases were added on a single day, according to Herald calculations of data provided by the CDC.

There were 16,457 people hospitalized for COVID-19 in Florida on Friday, according to data reported to the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services from 258 Florida hospitals. That is 376 fewer patients than Thursday’s COVID patient population.

COVID-19 patients also accounted for 28.17% of all hospital patients.

Of the hospitalized in Florida, 3,608 people were in intensive care unit beds, a decrease of 80. That represents 54.22% of the state’s ICU hospital beds from 258 hospitals reporting data."

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article253784623.html

I think the reason the hospitalizations are dropping slightly while the cases are at a plateau is that there is a pretty large lag between when somebody who is positive is tested and when the result is reported whereas the hospitalization data is real time. People hospitalized today won't get reported as cases until some time next week but will be reported as hospitalizations tomorrow.

 

[MisterPenguin]

 

[mmascari]

Even in the highly vaccinated states, there is almost nowhere in the entire USA that has low or moderate spread.

I really wish that have more colors beyond just red. A larger breakdown with many different shades of red. I'm not saying any of the red areas are good, but some of them are much much worse than others.

This just like using whole percentages that give us 100 buckets when all the interesting stuff happens in the last 2 buckets. The 4 buckets of Community Transmission hide the different levels of bad and make them all sound like they're exactly the same.

From the CDC site:

• Blue (Low Transmission): Counties with fewer than 10 cumulative cases per 100,000 population in the past 7 days, and a cumulative NAAT percent test positivity result below 5% in the past 7 days.
• Yellow (Moderate Transmission): Counties with 10-49 cumulative cases per 100,000 population or a cumulative NAAT test positivity result between 5.0-7.9% in the past 7 days.
• Orange (Substantial Transmission): Counties with 50-99 cumulative cases per 100,000 population or a cumulative NAAT test positivity result between 8.0-9.9% in the past 7 days.
• Red (High Transmission): Counties with cumulative cases =100 per 100,000 population or a cumulative NAAT test positivity result =10.0% in the past 7 days.

It makes it look like Orange County FL at 642/100K and 18.51% positivity is exactly the same as Philadelphia County PA at 190/100K and 6.49%. They're both Red and "not good", but Philadelphia is like brick wall Red and Orange County is Screaming Fire Engine Red.

Which makes the map undervalued and deceptive on how bad some areas are.

 

[Smooth]

Antibody tests are not widely available (you can't walk into a drug store and get one, your doctor has to order one up), are expensive when they are, and apparently from my understanding, not terribly accurate.

It's way easier to just get the damn shot, then people know they are covered either way.

Our local Kroger pharmacies offer Rapid Antibody tests for $25. There are some other places in our little corner of the world that can do antibody tests. I had the antibody test done at Kroger. It took about 15 minutes. I am not aware of antibody tests being done only at doctor's orders.

https://www.cvs.com/minuteclinic/services/covid-19-antibody-testing

 

[DisneyCane]

I really wish that have more colors beyond just red. A larger breakdown with many different shades of red. I'm not saying any of the red areas are good, but some of them are much much worse than others.

This just like using whole percentages that give us 100 buckets when all the interesting stuff happens in the last 2 buckets. The 4 buckets of Community Transmission hide the different levels of bad and make them all sound like they're exactly the same.

From the CDC site:

• Blue (Low Transmission): Counties with fewer than 10 cumulative cases per 100,000 population in the past 7 days, and a cumulative NAAT percent test positivity result below 5% in the past 7 days.
• Yellow (Moderate Transmission): Counties with 10-49 cumulative cases per 100,000 population or a cumulative NAAT test positivity result between 5.0-7.9% in the past 7 days.
• Orange (Substantial Transmission): Counties with 50-99 cumulative cases per 100,000 population or a cumulative NAAT test positivity result between 8.0-9.9% in the past 7 days.
• Red (High Transmission): Counties with cumulative cases =100 per 100,000 population or a cumulative NAAT test positivity result =10.0% in the past 7 days.

It makes it look like Orange County FL at 642/100K and 18.51% positivity is exactly the same as Philadelphia County PA at 190/100K and 6.49%. They're both Red and "not good", but Philadelphia is like brick wall Red and Orange County is Screaming Fire Engine Red.

Which makes the map undervalued and deceptive on how bad some areas are.

I'm guessing that from a community transmission standpoint, once a county enters the "high" range they've determined that the risk of an individual catching it isn't appreciably different between the low end and high end. Essentially, you statistically reach a point where you are unlikely to avoid exposure in a given amount of time interacting in public. Once that point is reached it doesn't matter if you are likely to be exposed or really likely to be exposed.

I can only assume that if there was a major difference they'd have more colors.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I really wish that have more colors beyond just red. A larger breakdown with many different shades of red. I'm not saying any of the red areas are good, but some of them are much much worse than others.

This just like using whole percentages that give us 100 buckets when all the interesting stuff happens in the last 2 buckets. The 4 buckets of Community Transmission hide the different levels of bad and make them all sound like they're exactly the same.

From the CDC site:

• Blue (Low Transmission): Counties with fewer than 10 cumulative cases per 100,000 population in the past 7 days, and a cumulative NAAT percent test positivity result below 5% in the past 7 days.
• Yellow (Moderate Transmission): Counties with 10-49 cumulative cases per 100,000 population or a cumulative NAAT test positivity result between 5.0-7.9% in the past 7 days.
• Orange (Substantial Transmission): Counties with 50-99 cumulative cases per 100,000 population or a cumulative NAAT test positivity result between 8.0-9.9% in the past 7 days.
• Red (High Transmission): Counties with cumulative cases =100 per 100,000 population or a cumulative NAAT test positivity result =10.0% in the past 7 days.

It makes it look like Orange County FL at 642/100K and 18.51% positivity is exactly the same as Philadelphia County PA at 190/100K and 6.49%. They're both Red and "not good", but Philadelphia is like brick wall Red and Orange County is Screaming Fire Engine Red.

Which makes the map undervalued and deceptive on how bad some areas are.

Well, someone at the CDC or my state is really cooking the numbers then. According to my state's COVID website, my county has a positivity rate of less than 5% for the past 7 days, and only just over 18 cumulative cases per 100,000. That should make my county either Blue or Yellow, and the CDC website has us at Red. Hard to know what to believe anymore.

 

[Chi84]

Of course, there was that time, many years ago, when the Chief Justice of the Florida Supreme Court leaned over the bench, peered down at me, and said, "You're not from around here, son, and you don't understand." (But, I won that case anyway. )

See, e.g., My Cousin Vinny. I appreciate the time it takes to explain these matters clearly and concisely.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

See, e.g., My Cousin Vinny. I appreciate the time it takes to explain these matters clearly and concisely.

Agree. Breath of fresh air to have someone speaking in terms I can understand. It’s good to have doctors.. lawyers.. nurses and others in this thread to keep us all a bit grounded.

 

[mmascari]

I'm guessing that from a community transmission standpoint, once a county enters the "high" range they've determined that the risk of an individual catching it isn't appreciably different between the low end and high end. Essentially, you statistically reach a point where you are unlikely to avoid exposure in a given amount of time interacting in public. Once that point is reached it doesn't matter if you are likely to be exposed or really likely to be exposed.

That doesn't seem right. I suppose at some point it would have to be. But at 100/100K doesn't feel like it's that point, seems to low. If if was, every state over 100/100K should be seeing about about the same growth rate and headed for all the same higher numbers. At least for places where people are doing similar mitigation and vaccination. At a glance, different states seem to be more different than that.

I can only assume that if there was a major difference they'd have more colors.

Eh, I'm not confident they would put the nuance into the color scheme. There is some value in not making them different when not everywhere is Red. Since they want to convey that Red is bad. It's only once the entire map is Red that the breakdown becomes more important. It's not like any of the color chart indicators every delivered nuance. This one just feels useless now that it's bad everywhere.

 

[DCBaker]

 

[Chi84]

Sky Could Be the Limit for Surcharges on Unvaccinated Workers — Bloomberg Law

August 27, 2021, 1:51 PM EDT

apple.news

Insurance companies to the rescue!

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

It’s too bad vaccination numbers plummeted after peaking in mid April, had we maintained 3 million doses a day wed have administered about 200 million more doses and be fully vaccinated right now.

This could have been more or less contained already. It would be nice to be dealing with only breakthrough cases right now rather than hospitals full of (90%) unvaccinated people.

 

[DCBaker]

Here is the weekly report from the Florida DOH (data published 5:30pm).

The number of new deaths reported from the report last week to this report is 1,727.

 

[DisneyCane]

Here is the weekly report from the Florida DOH (data published 5:30pm).

The number of new deaths reported from the report last week to this report is 1,727.

View attachment 582978View attachment 582979View attachment 582980View attachment 582981

Compared to last week it looks like 225,459 new FL residents got vaccinated. To make any progress, that needs to be a daily number, not a weekly number. Just barely over 1% of the population in a week during the height of the Delta surge that should be scaring people into finally giving in. There's still 32% of the eligible population that hasn't started the process. The real problem continues to be people under 40.

 

[Kevin_W]

Compared to last week it looks like 225,459 new FL residents got vaccinated. To make any progress, that needs to be a daily number, not a weekly number. Just barely over 1% of the population in a week during the height of the Delta surge that should be scaring people into finally giving in. There's still 32% of the eligible population that hasn't started the process. The real problem continues to be people under 40.

I'm sure some of those look and say: if I get the shot today it will be 5-6 weeks until I'm "fully vaccinated". By then it will be over.

Others will still say the same thing: I'm healthy, I don't need it. This is a hoax. The vaccine itself has killed 13,000 people already, it's too dangerous (I read the last one today).