Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[havoc315]

So potentially BIG news for WDW:

Mayor Demings immediately changes social distancing from 6 feet to 3 feet. If WDW follows suit, that will greatly relieve park congestion, allow for more dining and entertainment

Masks lifted outdoors when 50% of adults vaccinated

All mandates lifted when 70% of adults vaccinated.

Sadly, they are only currently at 36% of adults.

 

[JD80]

So potentially BIG news for WDW:

Mayor Demings immediately changes social distancing from 6 feet to 3 feet. If WDW follows suit, that will greatly relieve park congestion, allow for more dining and entertainment

Masks lifted outdoors when 50% of adults vaccinated

All mandates lifted when 70% of adults vaccinated.

Sadly, they are only currently at 36% of adults.

I doubt WDW moves to 3 feet because it's almost impossible to enforce. Especially in very crowded areas.

Plus Disney won't go around and change all the signage when if they wait 2-3 months it may be completely removed.

 

[hopemax]

One thing that has changed my opinion since are lockdowns. Don't want to de-rail here but lockdowns work of course when they are occurring, but whenever you open up slightly there is always an untick, so long-term we know they don't work.

We knew that from the beginning. That’s why the second half was: until we have...
Followed by a list of things starting with understanding the characteristics of the virus, supplies, testing, tracing, isolation of infected and more. I know I wrote a bazillion of these posts and so did several others.

The problem was people thought they could avoid the work and costs of those enumerated things and just whine about how lockdowns don’t work, in order to get the lockdowns removed. They were never a solution in and of themself. Just to buy time to do the other things. We skipped the other things or did them partway and then wondered why nothing changed.

 

[havoc315]

I doubt WDW moves to 3 feet because it's almost impossible to enforce. Especially in very crowded areas.

Plus Disney won't go around and change all the signage when if they wait 2-3 months it may be completely removed.

No harder to enforce than 6 feet..

And it's not about changing signage necessarily. Means that they can open shows with less space between guests. Means they can now put more tables in the restaurants.

 

[GoofGoof]

I doubt WDW moves to 3 feet because it's almost impossible to enforce. Especially in very crowded areas.

Plus Disney won't go around and change all the signage when if they wait 2-3 months it may be completely removed.

How is 3 feet any harder to enforce than 6 feet? 3 feet actually eliminates most of the ride vehicle restrictions as long as the rows are 3 feet apart.

As far as signs it’s cheap and easy to get a bunch of 3 stickers to just slap over the 6 on all the signs. Problem solved. Not changing means the Parks sell out and they turn away lots of customers. That’s not likely to happen. The extra money they make the first week would cover all of the costs and then some.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

We knew that from the beginning. That’s why the second half was: until we have...
Followed by a list of things starting with understanding the characteristics of the virus, supplies, testing, tracing, isolation of infected and more. I know I wrote a bazillion of these posts and so did several others.

The problem was people thought they could avoid the work and costs of those enumerated things and just whine about how lockdowns don’t work, in order to get the lockdowns removed. They were never a solution in and of themself. Just to buy time to do the other things. We skipped the other things or did them partway and then wondered why nothing changed.

And this is why I'd much rather be the turtle this time around. I'm tired of the virus winning and us having to beat it down again.

 

[Patcheslee]

I doubt WDW moves to 3 feet because it's almost impossible to enforce. Especially in very crowded areas.

Plus Disney won't go around and change all the signage when if they wait 2-3 months it may be completely removed.

I wonder how that applies to restaurants. Are they still expected to be at 6ft or can they increase their capacity there? That could alleviate some crowding and get more CMs back.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Mayor Dennings....clearly a reader here

Can someone get a copy of these displays over to Joe Biden and Fauci. This is exactly the guidelines we need at the national level. Then you put all the pressure on those unvaccinated to get in and get it done. Really solid plan. A+ for Mr. mayor.

I would rather the benchmarks be "X number of people hospitalized" and "Y number of people dying per day."

That's because we only have educated guesses when herd immunity kicks in based on percentage vaccinated. And more infectious variants can alter that number.

And the case numbers have issues with people self-selecting to be tested and no government-run random testing happening.

However, if the "percent vaccinated" benchmark encourages the vaccine hesitant to become unhesitant, I can live with it.

 

[GoofGoof]

I wonder how that applies to restaurants. Are they still expected to be at 6ft or can they increase their capacity there? That could alleviate some crowding and get more CMs back.

Good question. It says in all setting so I assume it means restaurants as well. There’s nothing saying not indoor dining. I think that effectively would allow most restaurants to reach 100% capacity or near that. Anywhere with tables closer than 3 feet is pretty uncomfortable in normal life.

 

[JD80]

How is 3 feet any harder to enforce than 6 feet? 3 feet actually eliminates most of the ride vehicle restrictions as long as the rows are 3 feet apart.

As far as signs it’s cheap and easy to get a bunch of 3 stickers to just slap over the 6 on all the signs. Problem solved. Not changing means the Parks sell out and they turn away lots of customers. That’s not likely to happen. The extra money they make the first week would cover all of the costs and then some.

I'm talk about 6 feet in lines and in stores. If you make it 3 feet, you might as well eliminate social distancing.

As far as signage is concerned. Designing them, buying them, lead time on delivery, implementing them, creating documentation and guidance to employees, training them, doing proper messaging to guests and potential guests... it's a lot of work and money for something that may be short lived.

 

[sullyinMT]

I doubt WDW moves to 3 feet because it's almost impossible to enforce. Especially in very crowded areas.

Plus Disney won't go around and change all the signage when if they wait 2-3 months it may be completely removed.

As others said: increased capacity with 3 ft vs 6 means shows can be recalled and sat a little closer. It means more tables in outside restaurants. Possibility for normal seating on rides, with the exception of single rider staying away for now. Maybe whatever is going to replace FP+ can be brought back once the increased capacity is consistently hit.

It could mean fireworks in Epcot and HS (I still see HEA as a potential issue with the hub).

The most impactful change to an increase in capacity, should demand follow, is a reopening of shuttered resorts and resort offerings.

 

[disneygeek90]

I personally don't think OC restrictions mean anything for WDW. If WDW chooses to adjust, it will be based on the CDC update. Remember, Disney has had a mask policy since May 2020 when Springs reopened. Orange County itself did not have a mask mandate until June 20. What Orange County ever mandated for its residents and visitors outside of park life had little to no effect on how WDW chose to operate.

 

[JD80]

As others said: increased capacity with 3 ft vs 6 means shows can be recalled and sat a little closer. It means more tables in outside restaurants. Possibility for normal seating on rides, with the exception of single rider staying away for now. Maybe whatever is going to replace FP+ can be brought back once the increased capacity is consistently hit.

It could mean fireworks in Epcot and HS (I still see HEA as a potential issue with the hub).

The most impactful change to an increase in capacity, should demand follow, is a reopening of shuttered resorts and resort offerings.

Sure, but I doubt Disney changes without CDC guidance on it regardless.

In any case, do they 3 foot guidelines include indoor and outdoor? Crowded and not crowded? Once you got a crowd of people for fireworks, can you reasonably enforce 3ft social distancing at that point?

Depends on whether or not Disney wants to have to deal with that.

 

[GoofGoof]

I would rather the benchmarks be "X number of people hospitalized" and "Y number of people dying per day."

That's because we only have educated guesses when herd immunity kicks in based on percentage vaccinated. And more infectious variants can alter that number.

And the case numbers have issues with people self-selecting to be tested and no government-run random testing happening.

However, if the "percent vaccinated" benchmark encourages the vaccine hesitant to become unhesitant, I can live with it.

The last line is exactly the point. By setting a goal based on vaccinations you are relying on the vaccines working. It’s not a guarantee but at some point the risk is worth the reward. I am fully vaccinated and personally find it hard to understand why anyone wouldn’t want the vaccine. I tried to listen to what the vaccine resistant are saying is their reason. Some are a lost cause, but there seems to be a number of people saying they would go in right away if there was a guaranteed reward. It makes no sense to just say once vaccinated you don’t have to follow the rules so the next best thing is a firm target that‘s measurable. You can’t set a target date or people will just wait it out. The best alternative is a percent vaccinated. If it turns out that doesn’t really help and we don’t get to 70% vaccinated we have lost nothing and we have a clear group to blame for not returning to normal. If it works we get what we all want...a return to normal.

 

[Patcheslee]

I'm talk about 6 feet in lines and in stores. If you make it 3 feet, you might as well eliminate social distancing.

As far as signage is concerned. Designing them, buying them, lead time on delivery, implementing them, creating documentation and guidance to employees, training them, doing proper messaging to guests and potential guests... it's a lot of work and money for something that may be short lived.

Most the markings I've seen don't say a distance so it could be just putting a sticker between spaces. The phase 2 & 3 don't mention removing the now 3ft to nothing.

 

[disneygeek90]

The latest CDC recommendation chart never discusses indoor dining. I don't think we'll see much movement on indoor dining capacity for a while yet.

 

[ABQ]

I live in PA and the mom and pop hardware stores have been open since May 2020. Seems you are working off some very outdated information.

Kind of jealous, don't have very many, if any, mom and pop hardware stores left in my neck of the woods.

 

[GhostHost1000]

The death per capita in Texas is 11.3% higher than California. In Florida, it's about 4.6% higher. Maybe to you that's insignificant, but I'm sure the family and friends of those extra dead people wish they weren't among those extra deaths. In Texas, that works out to 5,106 extra deaths vs. what it would be if they had CA's death rate. In Florida, it's 1,530 extra deaths.

Also, saying that CA has the highest cases is a factually correct but intellectually dishonest argument because it ignores the size of the population. TX and FL both outpace CA in cases per million people. In fact, CA's cases per million is better than the national average while both TX and FL are worse than the national average.

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Regardless states with no restrictions and wide open should have a massive difference in covid cases vs states with heavy restrictions if we follow the science right?

 

[sullyinMT]

Sure, but I doubt Disney changes without CDC guidance on it regardless.

In any case, do they 3 foot guidelines include indoor and outdoor? Crowded and not crowded? Once you got a crowd of people for fireworks, can you reasonably enforce 3ft social distancing at that point?

Depends on whether or not Disney wants to have to deal with that.

Fantasmic! is probably easiest; depends on if the cost is worth it at a 3’ distanced theater. Spacing people through WS for an evening Epcot show is feasible, and a lot of evening hours have been added, so perhaps management is hopeful that things are looking positive for a summer debut.

I read the county guidance as outdoor, though park operators could argue the 3’ rule as applied to schools could apply to indoors for attractions queues. Whether they push it remains to be seen, as they’ve been relatively successful so far. Perhaps they just wait for phase 2, when things should be looking a lot better. Dr Pino today said he expects that to take another 3 weeks or so, lining up nicely with Memorial Day.

I don’t think any massive changes are coming next week or anything, but we’ll probably see some incremental changes throughout the summer.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I understand your point, but there are other factors involved. For one, Florida has an older population than California, which would contribute to more deaths.

Overall, yes CA is "slightly" lower on a few of those metrics, but it still is fascinating to see how completely different approaches almost ended up with similar results. One thing that has changed my opinion since are lockdowns. Don't want to de-rail here but lockdowns work of course when they are occurring, but whenever you open up slightly there is always an untick, so long-term we know they don't work.

This is all really a crazy experiment and I am curious to see the data and studies of the effects of the actions we took after this thing is squashed.

Sure there are other factors. My point was that the poster I replied to ignored all of them - especially total population when discussing the total cases in each state. However, FL having an older population shouldn't make a difference in the cases per million and it is virtually guaranteed that the elevated case count contributed to the higher death count when compared to CA.

Meanwhile, TX has a population density that is less than half of CA's yet they have higher cases per million and deaths per million. Factoring in population density makes TX look much worse than CA (and worse than FL, too, for that matter).