Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Chip Chipperson]

I understand your point, but there are other factors involved. For one, Florida has an older population than California, which would contribute to more deaths.

Overall, yes CA is "slightly" lower on a few of those metrics, but it still is fascinating to see how completely different approaches almost ended up with similar results. One thing that has changed my opinion since are lockdowns. Don't want to de-rail here but lockdowns work of course when they are occurring, but whenever you open up slightly there is always an untick, so long-term we know they don't work.

This is all really a crazy experiment and I am curious to see the data and studies of the effects of the actions we took after this thing is squashed.

Sure there are other factors. My point was that the poster I replied to ignored all of them - especially total population when discussing the total cases in each state. However, FL having an older population shouldn't make a difference in the cases per million and it is virtually guaranteed that the elevated case count contributed to the higher death count when compared to CA.

Meanwhile, TX has a population density that is less than half of CA's yet they have higher cases per million and deaths per million. Factoring in population density makes TX look much worse than CA (and worse than FL, too, for that matter).

 

[danlb_2000]

Regardless states with no restrictions and wide open should have a massive difference in covid cases vs states with heavy restrictions if we follow the science right?

Unfortunately there are a lot of other variables that figure in making it difficult to judge the effectiveness of a single thing.

 

[Archie123]

Dude he's lied to the public DOZENS of times at this point. The most charitable reading of Fauci is "...yeah but he had really good reasons to lie." I don't accept that.

He has not lied DOZENS of times. Sorry but that is a lie. He has said things that contradicted other things he has said but again the data changed so his recommendations did as well. This is how science works Cap. Was he right every time, nope, but Fauci worked for several administrations and never had to deal with a worldwide pandemic and a boss who never took it seriously.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Regardless states with no restrictions and wide open should have a massive difference in covid cases vs states with heavy restrictions if we follow the science right?

No, because you're ignoring the fact that people don't necessarily follow the recommendations at home, so people holding large family gatherings without masks can still spread the virus but the lockdowns, mask mandates, and social distancing still contributed to curbing the spread in public places. So someone who followed the mask and social distancing mandates/guidelines both in public and at home was safer than someone who followed them when required in public places but completely ignored them at home. The virus doesn't care if you're at home or if you know the people around you, but there was no way to enforce mask mandates at home when having visitors. CA certainly tried to enforce limits on private gatherings, but that's like using just your own 2 hands to try to plug a thousand leaks in a dam at once. But you already knew all that.

 

[hopemax]

In other world news... Brazil has rejected Russia's Sputnik-V vaccine. The reason: The Sputnik vaccine uses a live adenovirus. Normally, when a live virus is used, scientists delete a protein that allows the virus to replicate. They didn't do that.

This has set off a discussion regarding a whole chain of deficiencies observed in the manufacture of Russia's vaccine. And how obvious this situation should have been to anyone paying attention. (It's a lot of biology / chemistry stuff I don't understand, but if you do). So if you want to know what more serious vaccine-related issues are to help evaluate how worrisome Astrazeneca and J&J clotting issues are and the thoroughness of the US/European evaluation process, there is plenty to unpack.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I'm talk about 6 feet in lines and in stores. If you make it 3 feet, you might as well eliminate social distancing.

As far as signage is concerned. Designing them, buying them, lead time on delivery, implementing them, creating documentation and guidance to employees, training them, doing proper messaging to guests and potential guests... it's a lot of work and money for something that may be short lived.

The one thing that Disney has that's an advantage over nearly all other businesses is they have their own sign shop. Design, production, and installation can happen in very short time if they really wanted to push for it. They likely print their own spacing decals for the floor/ground, too. It's just a matter of changing a roll of vinyl and putting another, thicker and clear, vinyl over them after they're printed.

 

[corsairk09]

I doubt WDW moves to 3 feet because it's almost impossible to enforce. Especially in very crowded areas.

Plus Disney won't go around and change all the signage when if they wait 2-3 months it may be completely removed.

I have zero insight, but I disagree. Was there and the congestion caused by the long lines was a huge pain. Changing the signage will make it SOOO much easier to navigate around Disney. I think they change it ASAP. But I am only guessing.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

He has not lied DOZENS of times. Sorry but that is a lie. He has said things that contradicted other things he has said but again the data changed so his recommendations did as well. This is how science works Cap. Was he right every time, nope, but Fauci worked for several administrations and never had to deal with a worldwide pandemic and a boss who never took it seriously.

He didn't make claims that subsequently evolved bEcAuSe ScIeNcE. He made claims that he knew were false at the time he made them in a deliberate effort to mislead the public. He has admitted this.

Just be honest. If you want to say "Fauci had to lie because people are too stupid to be trusted to know what's best for them and their neighbors," say that and own it.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I doubt WDW moves to 3 feet because it's almost impossible to enforce. Especially in very crowded areas.

Plus Disney won't go around and change all the signage when if they wait 2-3 months it may be completely removed.

How is 3 feet any harder to enforce than 6 feet? 3 feet actually eliminates most of the ride vehicle restrictions as long as the rows are 3 feet apart.

As far as signs it’s cheap and easy to get a bunch of 3 stickers to just slap over the 6 on all the signs. Problem solved. Not changing means the Parks sell out and they turn away lots of customers. That’s not likely to happen. The extra money they make the first week would cover all of the costs and then some.

I mean it's sort of moot because they don't really enforce the 6 feet in the first place. They enforce masks, not distancing.

 

[Parker in NYC]

He has not lied DOZENS of times. Sorry but that is a lie. He has said things that contradicted other things he has said but again the data changed so his recommendations did as well. This is how science works Cap. Was he right every time, nope, but Fauci worked for several administrations and never had to deal with a worldwide pandemic and a boss who never took it seriously.

Let’s face it. If Fauci had told us all the thing was over last April, there wouldn’t be this continuing (and tiresome) narrative. But he didn’t agree with the others in charge, so... that’s all there is to it. Anyone who says different is smoking something I would love to try.

Of course, now, the same folks are well aware that COVID is a real thing because they’re keeping tabs on how many cases are still occurring, just under new management. Because, you know, it’s only real when you think it is.

 

[danlb_2000]

So potentially BIG news for WDW:

Mayor Demings immediately changes social distancing from 6 feet to 3 feet. If WDW follows suit, that will greatly relieve park congestion, allow for more dining and entertainment

Masks lifted outdoors when 50% of adults vaccinated

All mandates lifted when 70% of adults vaccinated.

Sadly, they are only currently at 36% of adults.

Being at 36% now, do we think Orange county will ever reach 70%?

 

[DCBaker]

"Disney World is offering up cash to employees who get vaccinated against coronavirus, joining other Central Florida businesses pushing to protect their workforce against the pandemic.

Employees who are fully vaccinated by Sept. 30, either through the single-dose vaccine or both doses of a two-dose vaccine, become eligible for a one-time payment equal to four hours of pay, according to Disney World spokeswoman Erica Ettori.

Disney World has also been offering vaccines to employees by appointment at Disney Health Services and through “pop-up” clinics. The company did not release how many staffers have received the vaccine so far."

Disney World pays staff to get COVID-19 vaccine, as other Orlando companies successfully promote shots

Walt Disney World is offering up cash to its employees who get vaccinated against coronavirus, joining other Central Florida businesses pushing to protect their workforce against the pandemic. Staf…

www.orlandosentinel.com

 

[havoc315]

Being at 36% now, do we think Orange county will ever reach 70%?

Honestly... No. But they may get close enough and cases get low enough, that it becomes "good enough."

Right now, I'm crossing my fingers that they reach 50%. They say they hope to reach that point in 3 weeks.... that seems optimistic considering it took them so long to get to 36%.

 

[Jrb1979]

Being at 36% now, do we think Orange county will ever reach 70%?

Not any time soon unfortunately. I don't share the optimism that some here do. I don't think there will be enough to get to 70 to 80%. When the amount of people vaccinated still isn't that high yet, there shouldn't be as many openings for vaccines as there are.

 

[havoc315]

He has not lied DOZENS of times. Sorry but that is a lie. He has said things that contradicted other things he has said but again the data changed so his recommendations did as well. This is how science works Cap. Was he right every time, nope, but Fauci worked for several administrations and never had to deal with a worldwide pandemic and a boss who never took it seriously.

He has actually been quite consistent. As the knowledge and science evolved, his advice evolved. But there is this re-writing of history, trying to create a narrative that Fauci was wrong/lying constantly. There are false statements that he said it was no worse than the flu, etc. All those things are false.
Fauci has been a very consistent voice.

 

[ABQ]

Being at 36% now, do we think Orange county will ever reach 70%?

Good question. Trying to figure out some of the math though to see if that's possible.
Ex, I think they have about 522k vaccinated (combined 1st and 2nd doses), total population is approx 1.4 million, is that right? Now I think you can subtract the under 16 crowd from that total though? Or does that get left in even if they aren't vax eligible? I don't have the numbers for that specific demographic. I do know that as of 2019, 22% of the county was 18 and under, not sure it's safe to estimate, but could you guess perhaps 19% is 16 and under? That would take 300k out of the 1.4 million in the county total, meaning about 50% of the eligible county population is vaccinated?
All back of the napkin math, so please don't slam me too hard.

 

[Jenny72]

I think it's natural to assume that there is this body of information and predictions about Covid that experts should have been giving us, but we knew so little and there is still so much we don't know. For instance, although there were some warnings, no one really predicted the human catastrophe that is currently occurring in India; in fact, it was largely assumed that they had gotten herd immunity the natural way. No one has a complete answer to what happened/is happening in Michigan. The fact that places that tried to lock down don't look wildly different than those that didn't is also perplexing. Yes, there is a lot of reasoning and speculation about why these things are happening, but the metaphor I read somewhere applies here: it's like trying to build a plane and fly it at the same time. I think it's natural for some experts to err on the side of caution when things are still so unpredictable and unexplained in so many ways.

 

[danlb_2000]

Good question. Trying to figure out some of the math though to see if that's possible.
Ex, I think they have about 522k vaccinated (combined 1st and 2nd doses), total population is approx 1.4 million, is that right? Now I think you can subtract the under 16 crowd from that total though? Or does that get left in even if they aren't vax eligible? I don't have the numbers for that specific demographic. I do know that as of 2019, 22% of the county was 18 and under, not sure it's safe to estimate, but could you guess perhaps 19% is 16 and under? That would take 300k out of the 1.4 million in the county total, meaning about 50% of the eligible county population is vaccinated?
All back of the napkin math, so please don't slam me too hard.

The Orange County criteria is 70% of the 16 and older population.

 

[hopemax]

Being at 36% now, do we think Orange county will ever reach 70%?

I got curious, so I just found out that 11 counties (including mine) in Colorado are above 60% (1st dose, eligible). Mine is at 63.6% One of our mountain counties says they need only 2200 more residents to reach 75% at which point they will drop restrictions. Of our most populous counties there are 3 usual "troublemakers" and they are at 58.3%, 48.8% and 41.4%. It's nice to have confidence that you're going to get close enough. But I can see it now... When some areas reach their benchmarks and start making changes, the areas they don't will be whining about the unfairness of it all. You gotta do the work. Something I thought was a characteristic of "real America" willing to do the hard work instead of trying to weasel their way out of it, but we know how that went...

 

[DCBaker]