DisneyFan32
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
I just got both Flu and COVID-19 booster shot last month. Soon I'll won't wear mask on riding train next year.
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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
- Thread starter Parker in NYC
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Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
The government needs to balance upholding individual liberties while at the same time avoiding a "tragedy of the commons" situation. In this case, during the times of a deadly contagious pandemic, if you want to maintain free and unfettered access to the commons, measures that mitigate harm you can inflict on others, such as vaccination and masking, are a very fair trade-off. And because some have insisted that having full access to the commons without helping to protect others is their unfettered right (despite ample Supreme Court precedent to the contrary), we now need to resort to mandates.
Protecting yourself is all well and good (and necessary), but in the midst of this virus, it isn't sufficient if others are not doing their part. If people insist on an unprecedented absolute right of "individual physical sovereignty", don't be surprised at a pushback from others to deny them access to the commons.
Things like diabetes, blood pressure and high cholesterol are a matter of individual health. Contagious disease, though, that's a matter of public and individual health.
yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
It is not quantifiable how long natural immunity lasts, nor how well it protects.
It's not the same as getting vaccinated, which has been thoroughly tested and has quantifiable metrics.
Mstr Gra-c
Active Member
Nope. Not knowing something is not really ignorance. It just means you don't know. Refusing to learn, is ignorance.
I claimed the CDC's definition of vaccine had been changed. You can define a word many ways. I was simply stating that it was odd that the CDC decided to change their defined use of the word.
Before calling someone ignorant, you should really try to at least have some grasp on their point.
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
The fact still remains that the CDC did update the definition on their website. That is specifically what the poster is referring to, right? I don't think there was really anything nefarious about the CDC doing so, but they did do it. And according to some internal emails, it seems to have been done for two reasons. One, it was just out of date and needed to be updated appropriately. Two, some anti-vaxxers were using the CDC definition to undermine the COVID vaccine. Publicly they said, just changes to wording but the definition remains the same? Well that is debatable. What is also debatable is the poster's overall interpretation of the change, which seems reasonable to discuss IMO, but not the fact that the CDC did update the definition on the site.
Mstr Gra-c
Active Member
First off I agree with you. I support vaccines 100%. I have been fully COVID vaccinated and support the use of vaccines for this virus. A vaccine at this point is more easily quantifiable. However, more info is coming in from multiple studies...
Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
Except, we have this study published in MWWR this week that shows vaccination to be 5-fold more effective than natural immunity:
Laboratory-Confirmed COVID-19 Among Adults Hospitalized ...
This report describes mRNA COVID-19 vaccine recipients as having greater immunity from COVID-19 infection than previously infected, unvaccinated persons.
www.cdc.gov
Mstr Gra-c
Active Member
Yup. You're exactly right...saw that study, very intriguing. It supports my point. Even though we seem to have been going through this pandemic forever...we are really very early on in comparison to other viruses that we have studied over decades. So we need to be open to as many points of data as possible. Thank you.Except, we have this study published in MWWR this week that shows vaccination to be 5-fold more effective than natural immunity:
Laboratory-Confirmed COVID-19 Among Adults Hospitalized ...
This report describes mRNA COVID-19 vaccine recipients as having greater immunity from COVID-19 infection than previously infected, unvaccinated persons.
Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
BTW... nothing we do in medicine is 100% guaranteed, and nothing is absolutely without any risk. Even taking a blood pressure can theoretically dislodge a blood clot and cause a pulmonary embolism, for example.
It's all about trying to stack the odds in a patient's favor as best we can, then hoping for the best outcome.
ArmoredRodent
Well-Known Member
I've been just skipping many posts for a bit and skimming others. Still, I caution other commenters that the best way to handle newbies whose positions and arguments are more reminiscent of "Groundhog Day" (where everything repeats), is not to raise the temperature. That only leads to more heat -- and eventually the Mom must step in. Calm and simple usually wins, if the arguments are sound. As lawyers say: "if all you have are the facts, use the facts. If all you have is the law, use the law. If you don't have the facts or the law, pound the table." (And if you're in New York, you curse a lot. j/k)
If your goal is to educate, you do not have to overwhelm both your antagonists and everyone else. Simply state what you mean clearly and let trolls lose traction. Don't rinse and repeat. Assume that your fellow readers are smarter than the trolls. They probably are. For example, no one is going to be swayed by "I'm not really anti-vax. I'm vaxxed anyway." That only works for so long. Just ask Aaron Rodgers.
Of course, the opposite is true as well: allowing those who are the most vehement to control the tempo of the argument is a good way to lose the whole thread. It's a "heckler's veto," which benefits no one as the arms race escalates. It's light, not heat, that prevails.
Kevin_W
Well-Known Member
I know the Germans like their consonants, but 6 in a row with "Impfpflicht " might be going a bit to far.
ArmoredRodent
Well-Known Member
While that was also my first impression, I used "Impfpflicht" on my 3-month old granddaughter, and she understood it perfectly. Smiled right away.
correcaminos
Well-Known Member
The idea that this "new" definition changed before covid in my dictionaries - so it had to be there for a while is my point. That's what the article was about. Combine with putting vaccines in quotes, that posters comments were straight out of anti-vax land. Definition is a more comprehensive idea and yes, debatable on that aspect.
Nubs70
Well-Known Member
The 51 cases per 100k is a weekly number. The daily average daily number must be divided by 7, so the correct number is 7 per 100k a day.
Mark52479
Well-Known Member
CDC has the number a little lower at 50.67 cases per 100k.
DisneyFan32
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/s...ot-immigrant-and-an-absolute-angel/ar-AAQmOLs
New Jersey on Friday reported another 1,205 COVID-19 cases and 20 deaths as the state‘s transmission rate remains just above the key benchmark that indicates the outbreak is once again expanding.
The Garden State’s seven-day average for confirmed positive tests dropped to 1,056, down 8% from a week ago and 30% from a month ago. That’s the lowest seven-day average since Aug. 4.
But the statewide rate of transmission increased Friday to 1.02 from 1.01 on Wednesday. The transmission rate was not reported Thursday. The rate is back above the key benchmark of 1, which suggests the spread of COVID-19 is expanding. Any transmission rate above 1 indicates that each infected person is passing the virus to at least one other person.
The statewide positivity rate for tests conducted Saturday, the most recent day available, was 4.85%.
New Jersey, an early epicenter of the pandemic, has now reported 28,062 total COVID-19 deaths — 25,246 confirmed and 2,816 considered probable — in the more than 20 months since the start of the outbreak.
The state has the third-most coronavirus deaths per capita in the U.S., behind Mississippi and Alabama.
New Jersey has reported 1,047,410 total confirmed cases out of the more than 15.9 million PCR tests conducted since it announced its first case March 4, 2020. The state has also reported 157,730 positive antigen or rapid tests, which are considered probable cases.
Complete hospitalization data was not available Friday. Nine of the state’s 71 hospitals did not report patient counts to the state as of Thursday night. There were at least 79 patients discharged Thursday from the hospitals that did provide data.
The delta variant of the virus, which is more contagious than previous variants, now represents 100% of all cases circulating, state Health Commissioner Judith Persichilli has said.
New Jersey’s numbers have been steadily improving in recent weeks. But officials have warned that weather keeps getting colder and the holiday season is approaching. That will likely force more people to gather indoors and could cause another bump in the numbers.
in the state have received at least one dose, and about 656,000 people have received third doses or boosters.
Doctors, pharmacies, and health facilities around New Jersey began administering the Pfizer vaccine for children between the ages of 5 and 11 on Wednesday after receiving final federal approvals.
New Jersey has 760,000 children in that age group and the state has ordered 203,800 doses of the pediatric Pfizer vaccine, which is one-third the dose for those 12 and over.
Murphy on Monday also updated the state’s breakthrough numbers. There have been a total of 42,358 cases among fully vaccinated people leading to 911 hospitalizations and 241 deaths, though those represent a small percentage total cases.
From Oct. 11 to 17, the state had 11,450 positive tests. Of those, 2,199 were from fully vaccinated people and those cases led to 24 hospitalizations (out of 725 total) and two deaths (out of 123 total).
Eleven of New Jersey’s 21 counties are listed as having “high” rates of coronavirus transmission, while 10 are listed with “substantial” transmission, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The CDC is recommending that all people in the high and substantial transmission counties wear masks for indoor public settings regardless of vaccination status.
State officials on Thursday also reported 11 additional in-school outbreaks linked to 79 cases among staff and students. Through the first two month of the school year, districts in New Jersey have reported a total of 148 in-school outbreaks, for a total of 794 cases, though that number is cumulative and does not reflect active cases.
The state reported 11 new outbreaks the previous week, as well. Every county except Burlington and Warren have reported at least one in-school outbreak. The total of 715 cases is cumulative and does not reflect active cases.
In-school outbreaks are defined as three or more cases that are determined through contact tracing to have been transmitted among staff or students while at school. They do not include total cases among staff and students.
At least 8,654 of the state’s COVID-19 deaths have been among residents and staff members at nursing homes and other long-term care facilities, according to state data. There are active outbreaks at 132 facilities, resulting in 674 current cases among residents and 563 among staffers.
As of Friday, there have been more than 248 million positive COVID-19 cases reported across the globe, according to Johns Hopkins University, with more than 5 million people having died due to the virus. The U.S. has reported the most cases (more than 46 million) and deaths (more than 751,700) of any nation.
There have been more than 7.18 billion vaccine doses administered globally.
New Jersey on Friday reported another 1,205 COVID-19 cases and 20 deaths as the state‘s transmission rate remains just above the key benchmark that indicates the outbreak is once again expanding.
The Garden State’s seven-day average for confirmed positive tests dropped to 1,056, down 8% from a week ago and 30% from a month ago. That’s the lowest seven-day average since Aug. 4.
But the statewide rate of transmission increased Friday to 1.02 from 1.01 on Wednesday. The transmission rate was not reported Thursday. The rate is back above the key benchmark of 1, which suggests the spread of COVID-19 is expanding. Any transmission rate above 1 indicates that each infected person is passing the virus to at least one other person.
The statewide positivity rate for tests conducted Saturday, the most recent day available, was 4.85%.
New Jersey, an early epicenter of the pandemic, has now reported 28,062 total COVID-19 deaths — 25,246 confirmed and 2,816 considered probable — in the more than 20 months since the start of the outbreak.
The state has the third-most coronavirus deaths per capita in the U.S., behind Mississippi and Alabama.
New Jersey has reported 1,047,410 total confirmed cases out of the more than 15.9 million PCR tests conducted since it announced its first case March 4, 2020. The state has also reported 157,730 positive antigen or rapid tests, which are considered probable cases.
Complete hospitalization data was not available Friday. Nine of the state’s 71 hospitals did not report patient counts to the state as of Thursday night. There were at least 79 patients discharged Thursday from the hospitals that did provide data.
The delta variant of the virus, which is more contagious than previous variants, now represents 100% of all cases circulating, state Health Commissioner Judith Persichilli has said.
New Jersey’s numbers have been steadily improving in recent weeks. But officials have warned that weather keeps getting colder and the holiday season is approaching. That will likely force more people to gather indoors and could cause another bump in the numbers.
in the state have received at least one dose, and about 656,000 people have received third doses or boosters.
Doctors, pharmacies, and health facilities around New Jersey began administering the Pfizer vaccine for children between the ages of 5 and 11 on Wednesday after receiving final federal approvals.
New Jersey has 760,000 children in that age group and the state has ordered 203,800 doses of the pediatric Pfizer vaccine, which is one-third the dose for those 12 and over.
Murphy on Monday also updated the state’s breakthrough numbers. There have been a total of 42,358 cases among fully vaccinated people leading to 911 hospitalizations and 241 deaths, though those represent a small percentage total cases.
From Oct. 11 to 17, the state had 11,450 positive tests. Of those, 2,199 were from fully vaccinated people and those cases led to 24 hospitalizations (out of 725 total) and two deaths (out of 123 total).
Eleven of New Jersey’s 21 counties are listed as having “high” rates of coronavirus transmission, while 10 are listed with “substantial” transmission, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The CDC is recommending that all people in the high and substantial transmission counties wear masks for indoor public settings regardless of vaccination status.
State officials on Thursday also reported 11 additional in-school outbreaks linked to 79 cases among staff and students. Through the first two month of the school year, districts in New Jersey have reported a total of 148 in-school outbreaks, for a total of 794 cases, though that number is cumulative and does not reflect active cases.
The state reported 11 new outbreaks the previous week, as well. Every county except Burlington and Warren have reported at least one in-school outbreak. The total of 715 cases is cumulative and does not reflect active cases.
In-school outbreaks are defined as three or more cases that are determined through contact tracing to have been transmitted among staff or students while at school. They do not include total cases among staff and students.
At least 8,654 of the state’s COVID-19 deaths have been among residents and staff members at nursing homes and other long-term care facilities, according to state data. There are active outbreaks at 132 facilities, resulting in 674 current cases among residents and 563 among staffers.
As of Friday, there have been more than 248 million positive COVID-19 cases reported across the globe, according to Johns Hopkins University, with more than 5 million people having died due to the virus. The U.S. has reported the most cases (more than 46 million) and deaths (more than 751,700) of any nation.
There have been more than 7.18 billion vaccine doses administered globally.
EpcoTim
Well-Known Member
Except, we have this study published in MWWR this week that shows vaccination to be 5-fold more effective than natural immunity:
Laboratory-Confirmed COVID-19 Among Adults Hospitalized ...
This report describes mRNA COVID-19 vaccine recipients as having greater immunity from COVID-19 infection than previously infected, unvaccinated persons.
Apples, oranges and cherry picked.
From your study:
"The Israeli cohort study assessed any positive SARS-CoV-2 test result, whereas this study examined laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 among hospitalized patients."
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