Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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ABQ

Well-Known Member
Not sure I've been able to put must trust into India's reported numbers in a while, but who knows. Curious about France. Makes me wonder when I see some of the European issues as of late. I see much criticism about how the US handled covid "Could of done better" and the like, yet I don't think, outside of island nations who can literally cut themselves off from the rest of the world, who did well? Who can be compared, apples to apples with the US that did well with Covid? I haven't been able to find a success story that the US could have been similar to really.
 
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Nubs70

Well-Known Member
Oh geez, that's about the worst thing to say in reply to the poster. Makes zero sense too if you look at more temperate weathers. Florida rose and fell with higher temps.

France isn't doing what Germany is. Nor is Spain.

Best answer is we don't know yet.
Indoor transmission has been found to be the predominate location for transmission. Germany is cooling off thus closing windows with people spending a higher fraction of time indoors.

I just returned from Mexico and 1 thing I noticed from 2 years ago is the much lower use of AC. It appears that institutions are focusing on grater indoor air turnover at the expense of cooling off the indoor air. At Mc Donalds this morning in the upper Midwest, I found it was just about the same temperature inside as it was outside thus the observation of a trade off in air flow at the expense of heating.

Sorry for hypothesizing if there is a correlation between surges and deviation from median atmospheric temperature in different geographical locations because, as we know, vaccines are safe and effective... kind of.
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
Indoor transmission has been found to be the predominate location for transmission. Germany is cooling off thus closing windows with people spending a higher fraction of time indoors.

I just returned from Mexico and 1 thing I noticed from 2 years ago is the much lower use of AC. It appears that institutions are focusing on grater indoor air turnover at the expense of cooling off the indoor air. At Mc Donalds this morning in the upper Midwest, I found it was just about the same temperature inside as it was outside thus the observation of a trade off in air flow at the expense of heating.

Sorry for hypothesizing if there is a correlation between surges and deviation from median atmospheric temperature in different geographical locations because, as we know, vaccines are safe and effective... kind of.
See my reply above. It has far less to do with temperatures over there than you seem to think. There's another much more glaring correlation.
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
Look what is happening in Germany. Cases are climbing as temperature is falling. Another factor in Germany is the degree of post construction insulation, as this further lowers indoor air turnover.

It would be interesting to see a time series graph with surges superimposed against deviation from 72F.


The Süddeutsche Zeitung (South German Times, basically, the main newspaper for Munich) has some interesting graphics (scroll down to "Das Wichtigste zum Coronavirus"):


The "Übersicht" shows a map of Germany, and breaks down case by Kreis, which is roughly equivalent to a county in the US. Most of the dark red areas are clustered in the Bundesländer (roughly equivalent to a US state) in Bayern (Bavaria), Thüringen and Sachsen (Saxony). Baden-Württemberg and Brandenburg also aren't doing so hot.

Now....click on the heading "Impfung" (vaccination), and low and behold, look who occupies 5 of the 6 lowest positions for percentage of the population? Why, it's those same 5 Bundesländer, plus Sachsen Anhalt, who also is mostly pink, red and dark red on the map. The most vaccinated Bundesland is Bremen, and although this small state is a little hard to find on the map if you don't know German geography well, they are currently in yellow. The other most vaccinated Bundesländer, Saarland, Schleswig-Holstein and even densely-populated Nordrhein-Westfalen, all contain mostly yellow (Hamburg is in pink, though).

So, when you look at vaccination rates and what we saw over the summer in the US, none of this should be a surprise. If Germany is now getting hit by delta for the first time, delta is hitting hardest first where vaccination rates are the lowest (Sachsen is particularly low). Being a smaller, more densely populated country, though, I suspect this wave of the virus will probably spread throughout Germany quicker than it did in the US, unless the worsening numbers in other Bundesländer really motivates some of the hold-outs to get vaccinated quickly.

Also, if you can understand German, one of the articles on this page notes that 57% of Germans favor a vaccine mandate ("Mehrheit der Deutschen für Impfpflicht").

As to the last point, except maybe in the dead of winter when a few areas get very cold, but most of the country stays rather mild (unless you're from the southern US and you consider temps in the 40s icy cold), Germany has much less regional variation in temperatures than the US. And having lived in Germany for awhile, I can report that people generally stay outside for as long as possible throughout the year. Dining outdoors is far more common for most of the year than in the US. Even the Biergartens of Munich will fill up in the middle of the winter if it isn't too cold or rainy outside.

As I've demonstrated, the current pattern in Germany follows vaccination rates much more closely than temperature variations from 72 degrees. I will admit, though that the regions of the country that usually have the coldest winters (southern Bayern and parts of Sachsen) currently show some of the highest COVID rates, but they're currently not in the depths of winter there right now.
When temps drop into the 40's, while not icy cold, one does close up the windows and turn on the furnace. As you deviate from 72F, the furnace and AC turn on more frequently with the windows closed as not spend money conditioning outside air. Heating or cooling homes in less costly with less air turnover.
 

correcaminos

Well-Known Member
Indoor transmission has been found to be the predominate location for transmission. Germany is cooling off thus closing windows with people spending a higher fraction of time indoors.

I just returned from Mexico and 1 thing I noticed from 2 years ago is the much lower use of AC. It appears that institutions are focusing on grater indoor air turnover at the expense of cooling off the indoor air. At Mc Donalds this morning in the upper Midwest, I found it was just about the same temperature inside as it was outside thus the observation of a trade off in air flow at the expense of heating.

Sorry for hypothesizing if there is a correlation between surges and deviation from median atmospheric temperature in different geographical locations because, as we know, vaccines are safe and effective... kind of.
Vaccines are safe and effective. Period. Now if people like you would stop spreading doubts and encourage people to vaccinate we, as a globe, would be better off. Given it's not even 50 here in the lower midwest I doubt they keep it that cold. I dropped my car off when it was 28 to get snow tires. It wasn't 28 inside.

See above for the rest.
 

Communicora

Premium Member
Oh geez, that's about the worst thing to say in reply to the poster. Makes zero sense too if you look at more temperate weathers. Florida rose and fell with higher temps.

France isn't doing what Germany is. Nor is Spain.

Best answer is we don't know yet.
It is logical, because as temperatures go up in Florida, people head indoors where it is air conditioned. In northern climates, it's pleasant to spend time outdoors. As the temperature cools, people spend more time indoors. In both cases, the indoor environments have less ventilation.
 

Communicora

Premium Member
When temps drop into the 40's, while not icy cold, one does close up the windows and turn on the furnace. As you deviate from 72F, the furnace and AC turn on more frequently with the windows closed as not spend money conditioning outside air. Heating or cooling homes in less costly with less air turnover.
We need vaccination and good ventilation. I wish we'd make this a priority -- especially in places like schools. It would have a healthy impact on things beyond COVID.
 

correcaminos

Well-Known Member
It is logical, because as temperatures go up in Florida, people head indoors where it is air conditioned. In northern climates, it's pleasant to spend time outdoors. As the temperature cools, people spend more time indoors. In both cases, the indoor environments have less ventilation.
And still temps were pretty constant in Florida with the surge and drop....
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
And still temps were pretty constant in Florida with the surge and drop....
Looking at Johns Hopkins data base, the last 3 case surges fall generally as July to October, December to March, July to October. Then comparing to Orlando Heating Degree Days (HDD) and Cooling Degree Days (CDD), the coarse number show

1st Surge - July to October - CDD >450
2nd Surge - December to March - HDD >100
3rd Surge - July to October - CDD >450
 

correcaminos

Well-Known Member
Looking at Johns Hopkins data base, the last 3 case surges fall generally as July to October, December to March, July to October. Then comparing to Orlando Heating Degree Days (HDD) and Cooling Degree Days (CDD), the coarse number show

1st Surge - July to October - CDD >450
2nd Surge - December to March - HDD >100
3rd Surge - July to October - CDD >450
Which shows little correlation...
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
Not sure I've been able to put must trust into Indian's reported numbers in a while, but who knows. Curious about France. Makes me wonder when I see some of the European issues as of late. I see much criticism about how the US handled covid "Could of done better" and the like, yet I don't think, outside of island nations who can literally cut themselves off from the rest of the world, who did well? Who can be compared, apples to apples with the US that did well with Covid? I haven't been able to find a success story that the US could have been similar to really.
It depends on how you define well. Despite the recent surge, Germany has outperformed the US, UK, France, Sweden, etc in overall metrics. According to the stats on Worldometers the US is sitting 18th for cases/million pop at 141,238. Germany is 98th at 55,704. Deaths/million pop US is 16th at 2,311, Germany is 70th at 1,150. Canada, BTW is 110th for cases and 91st for deaths. France, even, is at 32nd for cases and 37th for deaths at 1799. So per million population France is about 500 deaths better off. Multiply that out for the size of the United States and that's a difference of 165,000 people. That's a 20% difference over what the US has experienced so far. 1 out of every 5 people who died in the US might not have had to if we had only been more like France. Would that not be some measure of success?
 

Mstr Gra-c

Active Member
Vaccines are safe and effective. Period. Now if people like you would stop spreading doubts and encourage people to vaccinate we, as a globe, would be better off. Given it's not even 50 here in the lower midwest I doubt they keep it that cold. I dropped my car off when it was 28 to get snow tires. It wasn't 28 inside.

See above for the rest.
Yes. Vaccines are...but...

It is healthy and right for folks to try to determine what is the best course of action for their families and themselves. If we are going to enter an era were "vaccine" comes with less certainty (per the CDC) and possibly (note I said possibly) some (note I said some...I said possibly and some both of those...possibly and some...trying really hard to be as delicate and open ended as possible) risk...then we need to understand and support each individuals physical sovereignty. Y
 

ABQ

Well-Known Member
It depends on how you define well. Despite the recent surge, Germany has outperformed the US, UK, France, Sweden, etc in overall metrics. According to the stats on Worldometers the US is sitting 18th for cases/million pop at 141,238. Germany is 98th at 55,704. Deaths/million pop US is 16th at 2,311, Germany is 70th at 1,150. Canada, BTW is 110th for cases and 91st for deaths. France, even, is at 32nd for cases and 37th for deaths at 1799. So per million population France is about 500 deaths better off. Multiply that out for the size of the United States and that's a difference of 165,000 people. That's a 20% difference over what the US has experienced so far. 1 out of every 5 people who died in the US might not have had to if we had only been more like France. Would that not be some measure of success?
Perhaps, just not certain it scales reliably? Might be more apples to apples to compare the EU in its entirety vs the USA. Might make the US even worse, but still.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Indoor transmission has been found to be the predominate location for transmission. Germany is cooling off thus closing windows with people spending a higher fraction of time indoors.

I just returned from Mexico and 1 thing I noticed from 2 years ago is the much lower use of AC. It appears that institutions are focusing on grater indoor air turnover at the expense of cooling off the indoor air. At Mc Donalds this morning in the upper Midwest, I found it was just about the same temperature inside as it was outside thus the observation of a trade off in air flow at the expense of heating.

Sorry for hypothesizing if there is a correlation between surges and deviation from median atmospheric temperature in different geographical locations because, as we know, vaccines are safe and effective... kind of.

When temps drop into the 40's, while not icy cold, one does close up the windows and turn on the furnace. As you deviate from 72F, the furnace and AC turn on more frequently with the windows closed as not spend money conditioning outside air. Heating or cooling homes in less costly with less air turnover.
How much fresh air is exchanged in a mechanical heating and/or cooling system is not a constant. Having the internal Tempe ration match the external temperature doesn’t change that. Depending on how the building is designed not running the air systems could be worse as air is left to stagnate instead of being exchanged.
 
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Nubs70

Well-Known Member
How much fresh air is exchanged in a mechanical heating and/or cooling system is not a constant. Having the internal Tempe ration match the external temperature doesn’t change that. Depending on how the building is designed not running the air systems could be worse as air is left to stagnate instead of being exchanged.

You’re ignorance on the efficacy and risks of all other vaccines doesn’t mean we are entering a new era.
So I shouldn't open my windows when people come over for Thanksgiving?
 

DCBaker

Premium Member
Mayor Demings has announced during his press conference this afternoon that this will be the final routine COVID-19 presser (they won't be pre-scheduled anymore).

The 14-day rolling positivity rate for Orange County via Mayor Demings is 3.15%.

Here is the current vaccination status for Orange County -

FDYHsvnWEAgYLXk.jpg


Demings says the county is still working on getting Barnett Park set up to vaccinate children in the 5-11 range.

OCPS has also announced vaccine clinics at the local schools for ages 5+ - below is the thread for that.

 
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