Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Heppenheimer]

Does anyone know if the vaccine mandates for these other diseases were controversial when they were first introduced?

Hard to say. Vaccination was controversial in the 1800s, when we didn't even yet have an understanding of the Germ Theory of infectious diseases, much less how the various arms of the immune system function, but gradually died down as we learned more about the underlying science and the efficacy became impossible to dispute (I guess they didn't have Facepoop back then...). Once vaccines against particularly awful diseases like smallpox, diphtheria and polio became widespread, they were largely considered miracles. It was only in the 80s when alternative medicine starting gaining popularity that vaccines started to become controversial (for some) again. The now infamous and retracted Lancet article from 1998 that linked autism to the MMR vaccine set off shockwaves that still reverberate even today.

 

[Timmay]

Does anyone know if the vaccine mandates for these other diseases were controversial when they were first introduced?

Without doubt, given that even the medical field found hand washing to be controversial when introduced as a way to eliminate germs. I don’t think anyone can point to any specific instance in history where everyone simply did something because they were told it was beneficial.

 

[October82]

We are not talking about measles or tuberculosis, but you know that already.

But we are talking about something that is as or more communicable than both of them with comparable or worse health outcomes for large parts of the population. What do you think makes measles or tuberculosis special? Why should we be more concerned about them than Covid?

 

[hopemax]

May I break up this line of discussion with news that my FIL is in the ER with breakthrough Covid?

He and MIL were vaccinated with Pfizer in March. They had not gotten their boosters because "they were waiting on Kaiser." On Tuesday, they started not feeling well and got tested. At first MIL seemed worse off and she was advised to get the monoclonal antibodies, which she received on Saturday. By Sunday she was feeling much better. Doctor did not advise FIL to get them, and then when he started going downhill late on Sunday they were told it was now too late for him to get them. MIL is unhappy with the advice she was getting from his doctor and called the Covid nurse who advised her to take him to the ER so someone could actually see him. FIL has Type 1 diabetes and relied on medication and so he is also generally not in good health (obese, etc.). WA is doing contract tracing and since they don't go a lot of places, they think they got it at church on Sunday.

This is not a good way to be feeling, waiting for news. Don't do it to your family members. Get vaccinated, get boosted, especially if you are immunocompromised. Be proactive. Be honest with your kids. MIL didn't share she didn't feel well enough to watch a tv program before she got the monoclonal until just today. You aren't protecting anyone by downplaying how poorly you feel.

*sigh*

 

[seascape]

May I break up this line of discussion with news that my FIL is in the ER with breakthrough Covid?

He and MIL were vaccinated with Pfizer in March. They had not gotten their boosters because "they were waiting on Kaiser." On Tuesday, they started not feeling well and got tested. At first MIL seemed worse off and she was advised to get the monoclonal antibodies, which she received on Saturday. By Sunday she was feeling much better. Doctor did not advise FIL to get them, and then when he started going downhill late on Sunday they were told it was now too late for him to get them. MIL is unhappy with the advice she was getting from his doctor and called the Covid nurse who advised her to take him to the ER so someone could actually see him. FIL has Type 1 diabetes and relied on medication and so he is also generally not in good health (obese, etc.). WA is doing contract tracing and since they don't go a lot of places, they think they got it at church on Sunday.

This is not a good way to be feeling, waiting for news. Don't do it to your family members. Get vaccinated, get boosted, especially if you are immunocompromised. Be proactive. Be honest with your kids. MIL didn't share she didn't feel well enough to watch a tv program before she got the monoclonal until just today. You aren't protecting anyone by downplaying how poorly you feel.

*sigh*

My heart and prayers go out to you, your wife and entire family. I have encouraged everyone to get vaccinated but do understand why some do not agree with that. In fact my brother's doctor has told him to to take the shot due to his medical condition. The thing is I really can understand why some refuse and why would anyone allow a religious exception and not one for other beliefs? Those who insist everyone should receive the vaccine have a big confict. Anyway, no one has the right to determine what someone does with their own body.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Anyway, no one has the right to determine what someone does with their own body.

Yet we do that every single day with other vaccines. I think that soundly invalidates your assertion.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Does anyone know if the vaccine mandates for these other diseases were controversial when they were first introduced?

Yes. That's why there's a Supreme Court precedent that the state can mandate vaccines on the entire populace (and not just their government workers or a backdoor OSHA rule). The mandated vaccines were challenged in court and lost.

Just about every recent court challenge to vaccine mandates has failed because of that decision.

The Small Pox vaccines (in their various forms) were also resisted. But the governments insisted and now that scourge of humanity has been eradicated off the face of the earth.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Anyway, no one has the right to determine what someone does with their own body.

But there is a right to spread disease to the body of others?

 

[ArmoredRodent]

Vaccination was controversial in the 1800s

Actually before the 1800's, so you likely meant the 18th Century. Ben Franklin's regret over not vaccinating his son was in 1736. (Note: my father was a scholar of the Founders, including a definitive autobiography of Franklin.) From the Nat'l Library of Medicine, NIH.

Making the right decision: Benjamin Franklin's son dies of smallpox in 1736 - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Franklin's agony has many parallels to today's debate: https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/08/14/ben-franklin-smallpox-son-vaccine/

 

[Heppenheimer]

Actually before the 1800's, so you likely meant the 18th Century. Ben Franklin's regret over not vaccinating his son was in 1736. (Note: my father was a scholar of the Founders, including a definitive autobiography of Franklin.) From the Nat'l Library of Medicine, NIH.

Making the right decision: Benjamin Franklin's son dies of smallpox in 1736 - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Franklin's agony has many parallels to today's debate: https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/08/14/ben-franklin-smallpox-son-vaccine/

I actually meant the 1800s, because that's when mass public health campaigns really started to gain steam, and there was quite a bit of backlash. Even when they figured out that cholera was transmitted via contaminated water, there was pushback against the remedial measures, like building the necessary sewage systems to keep fecal matter out of the drinking water supply.

 

[DCBaker]

 

[Disstevefan1]

How about we just make sure that all first responders are vaccinated before they show up at Nana's house? I'm confused as to why Nana should have to worry about a preventable disease in the first place.

The first responders were probably vaccinated. As we know the vaccine does not prevent the spread nor does it prevent contracting COVID. Let’s hope Nana was vaccinated. The vaccine may prevent Nana from getting really sick, but even then, there is no guarantee, COVID could still kill even the vaccinated.

 

[Disstevefan1]

But we are talking about something that is as or more communicable than both of them with comparable or worse health outcomes for large parts of the population. What do you think makes measles or tuberculosis special? Why should we be more concerned about them than Covid?

I would hope anyone sick with measles or tuberculosis or COVID would stay home and recover.

 

[mikejs78]

The first responders were probably vaccinated. As we know the vaccine does not prevent the spread nor does it prevent contracting COVID. Let’s hope Nana was vaccinated. The vaccine may prevent Nana from getting really sick, but even then, there is no guarantee, COVID could still kill even the vaccinated.

Nana should have known, the internet is deadly when misused

This is wrong.
* Vaccines help to substantially reduce transmission.
* Vaccines substantially reduce the possibility of contracting COVID.

Just like every single other vaccine out there. The degrees may vary from vaccine to vaccine, but that's how vaccines work.

I would hope anyone sick with measles or tuberculosis or COVID would stay home and recover.

Have you heard of presymptomatic transmission?

 

[mikejs78]

Interesting chart that came out of the ACIP meeting today that authorized the vaccine for kids. It shows number of annual deaths deaths from the associated disease for which we vaccinate kids before a particular vaccine was introduced. These are all vaccines that we innoculate children with routinely.

And here's one for hospitalizations:

These numbers are with mitigations in place (masks, social distancing, etc.) - which has an effect that we can see when looking at the flu numbers for the 2020/2021 flu season. Experts extrapolated that the COVID numbers here would likely have been 3x-4x if life was back to normal.

 

[hopemax]

FIL has been admitted. His breathing is labored and O2 stats lower than they would like. But he is only on 3L oxygen and nebulizer treatments. No ICU. Sounds hopeful that he will only need oxygen support for a few days. DH is feeling a little better with this news but still very nervous.

 

[Flugell]

FIL has been admitted. His breathing is labored and O2 stats lower than they would like. But he is only on 3L oxygen and nebulizer treatments. No ICU. Sounds hopeful that he will only need oxygen support for a few days. DH is feeling a little better with this news but still very nervous.

Prayers and good wishes from over the pond.

 

[Touchdown]

FIL has been admitted. His breathing is labored and O2 stats lower than they would like. But he is only on 3L oxygen and nebulizer treatments. No ICU. Sounds hopeful that he will only need oxygen support for a few days. DH is feeling a little better with this news but still very nervous.

That’s how it begins, here’s hoping it ends well. Thoughts and prayers.

 

[October82]

The first responders were probably vaccinated. [...]

So... what's the problem with mandating the vaccine again?

 

[Disney Analyst]

Also a happy milestone for BC. Now let's get kids approved up here also!