Right off the bat, any study that compares those who recoved from Covid 19 since March of 2020 through October 2021 to those who took the vaccine from January 2021 to October 2021 is making a huge mistake. The CDC has said the vaccine loses it effecitvenese after 8 monts. How long does natural immunity last? People should take antibody tests and those who still have strong levels don't need the shots but those with none or low levels should get them. However, just taking the shots for no reason is just crazy and wrong.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
- Thread starter Parker in NYC
- Start date
-
- Tags
- coronavirus covid covid-19
- Status
If we get our act together as a county, we could drive the vaccinated percentage high enough for under 5 not to matter. If everyone else (or just about) in the park was vaccinated except for kids under 5, it would be fine.
Hopeful thinking.
DC0703
Well-Known Member
My problem with using natural immunity in lieu of vaccines and vaccine mandates is that it is harder to quantify. Antibody tests can have false positives, and they do not give you an accurate picture of how much immunity you have. In fact, its been argued that antibodies may not automatically imply immunity.
If immunity due to natural infection was to be considered, I believe the only way it could work is if you have doctors document symptomatic individuals with positive PCR tests. Otherwise you will get all of the anti-vax folks claiming they had COVID already.
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
That’s easy enough.
Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
The study accounted for the different time ranges in their subgroup analysis, and the results still held.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
70% of Americans is likely the ceiling, although some states could hit 85-90%.
Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
70% won't be nearly enough, unfortunately. Otherwise, we wouldn't be dealing with the surge we're suffering through in Vermont currently.
I hope you like the choice you've made for our future, America.
DisneyFan32
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
80%-90% most likely we will put pandemic behind us for good.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
All of this whining about natural immunity would only have a point if it were in any way dangerous to be vaccinated after infection. It is not. The idea of having some sort of object to additional, known and studied protection is just nonsense. No harm is done in being vaccinated regardless of prior infection.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
It’s settled then. A first responder was heroic before the mandate and now only heroic based on their vaccination status.
Please be sure to, when a first responder comes to help you, please first ask them their vaccination status so you are free to refuse their help if they are not vaccinated for your safety.
"loses effectiveness" is not the same as "not effective". They have NOT said it's not effective. In fact, through who has been approved for boosters, they've said the opposite. That it's still plenty effective for most people.
It's a relative measure, not an absolute. The statistics are pretty clear that relative to each other, the vaccine provides statistically better protection than prior infection.
We could wait and just study all the options for the next 12-24 months. We'll know better then. Of course if we do nothing for that 12-24 months while we study it, things will get worse and change again. Based on what we know TODAY to get the best outcome for the overall population vaccinating everyone is clearly better than having some people depend on a non-standard prior infection with non-standard results.
For some the prior infection may be fine. For others, not at all. We have no way to tell. Statistically, we know it's worse for most. We could spend time and resources developing a way to determine which it is for a person. Alternatively, people could just get vaccinated instead of trying to determine if their prior infections was "good enough". We know how to do that already and have all the tools to do it quickly and cheaply.
This is like the studies on one, two, or three doses and how far between each one. They picked some likely values based on some initial testing and we went with those. They could have taken another year in the initial studies and tested all the combinations. Tested J&J as two, the mRNA as 3, or all the varied times between doses. Instead of 3-4 weeks, what about 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 or more? Maybe follow the Tetanus or Tdap schedules? Trying all of those different combination would have taken more time. They picked schedules that appeared to look good, went with them and tested out that they were "good enough". They didn't wait to figure out if another dose after 6 months or 12 months would be better before starting. We would still be in trials today.
All those stories saying "boosters indicate we may need one every year" are just speculation. Maybe it's just a last dose after 6 months. Maybe there's a 4th needed a year later before it's done. Maybe it becomes a booster every 10 years. Maybe it's done. Nobody knows today and it would be a worse outcome if we waited for all those scenarios to be studied before taking any action. We'll know the longer term efficacy and how the full dose schedule plays out as we get there. The best we can do TODAY is based on what we know so far TODAY.
GimpYancIent
Well-Known Member
When others run away from danger the First Responders run towards it. First Responders put themselves in harms way consistently saving lives. Now vaccine status interferes with these fine folks doing what they do?
correcaminos
Well-Known Member
Studies and trials do. Just like studies have shown natural infection also may not make antibodies. I'd rather shots vs getting sick and I loathe needles.
I think the smarter thing is to vaccinate all asap and hope for the best.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
So you’d be absolutely fine with the idea of a first responder having measles or tuberculosis? You’d praise them as heroic for sharing such diseases with others?
Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
The name "Typhoid Mary" comes to mind.
GimpYancIent
Well-Known Member
These heroic people would not be exposing anyone to any of the mentioned illnesses due to the fact they know to take care of their own health issues without endangering the public. The First responders are that small sliver of the population that actually cares and do something about it.
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
In the real world, when one group has supported unions and what they represent for decades, it shouldn't be a surprise when they may want to negotiate certain terms with you when it comes to mandates, etc. If natural immunity is on the table as part of those negotiations (I don't know whether it is), then it probably should at least be considered as a way to bridge gaps. If it has not been put on the table by the unions, moving on then...
GimpYancIent
Well-Known Member
She was a cook not a first responder in 1908.
That's a choice not a forgone conclusion.
My county, today:
| November 2, 2021 | |
| Cases | 544 |
| Case Rate per 100k | 51.78 |
| % Positivity | 1.94% |
| Deaths | <10 |
| % of population ≥ 12 years of age fully vaccinated | 91.3% |
| New Hospital Admissions | 24 |
| People Vaccinated | At Least One Dose | Fully Vaccinated |
| Total | 904,427 | 813,851 |
| % of Total Population | 86.1% | 77.5% |
| Population ≥ 12 Years of Age | 904,277 | 813,795 |
| % of Population ≥ 12 Years of Age | 99.9% | 91.3% |
| Population ≥ 18 Years of Age | 820,877 | 740,513 |
| % of Population ≥ 18 Years of Age | 99.9% | 91.6% |
| Population ≥ 65 Years of Age | 181,229 | 164,354 |
| % of Population ≥ 65 Years of Age | 99.9% | 97.4% |
It'll be interesting to see how the numbers change over the next 6 weeks as 5-11 can get vaccinated.
We're hovering just below and above 50/100K cases. Since it's a county not a state and there's lots of interactions with people from outside the county and the surrounding area isn't as highly vaccinated yet. Clearly, county residents have made a choice to overwhelmingly get vaccinated.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
She should have been allowed to not wash her hands! Free the cooks from the tyranny of hand washing!
You can’t stop yourself from spreading something when you don’t know if you are contagious. Rejecting a free and safe vaccine for spurious reasons also doesn’t seem like an example of taking care of one’s health.
- Status