Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GoofGoof]

This isn't entirely related, but I've been itching to share this article.

Doctors In Training Are Dying, And We Are Letting Them Down

Doctors in training are facing great risks in the battle against COVID-19. Given the structure of U.S. training programs they are put in an especially vulnerable position.

www.forbes.com

This highlights a big problem with the “let everyone catch it and then we’ll have herd immunity” argument. When the hospitals are overrun it’s not just the sick people lining up to get a ventilator that potentially suffer it’s the healthcare workers too. Doctors, nurses, first responders get run over in the process. A disproportionate number get sick or die. We rely on these people to take care of us and keep us safe. We owe it to them to do our part and stay home. Flattening the curve is not just spreading out the infected over a longer time it’s also reducing the total number infected and that includes the people on the front line.

 

[GhostHost1000]

I was literally having a conversation with a coworker about this earlier. How many people did it take to start this whole thing to begin with? Single digits. So China (and/or we) relax restrictions when the curve is flattened...are people not expecting the numbers just to rise all over again? It’s not going away.

We also have to understand that we can mitigate risk, but never eliminate risk.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Worldometer sometimes gets hacked and the hackers play with the numbers (they have issued notices on their site in the past about the hacking).

One time there were negative numbers. I don’t think we have zombies roaming the earth....yet.

Nice. Let's mess with the number of people who died. Who the hell gets off on that kind of thing?!? I realize that there are some hackers who use their powers for good, but those who don't literally should be hung upside-down by their toenails.

 

[DisneyDoctor]

This highlights a big problem with the “let everyone catch it and then we’ll have herd immunity” argument. When the hospitals are overrun it’s not just the sick people lining up to get a ventilator that potentially suffer it’s the healthcare workers too. Doctors, nurses, first responders get run over in the process. A disproportionate number get sick or die. We rely on these people to take care of us and keep us safe. We owe it to them to do our part and stay home. Flattening the curve is not just spreading out the infected over a longer time it’s also reducing the total number infected and that includes the people on the front line.

Absolutely. There are so many points I could draw upon. I'll mention one: PPE should go to healthcare providers first. Viral load seems to be related to infection severity ie why young healthy docs are dying. Tough to replace these people during such a critical time.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Vaccine is not a metaphor to be used in place of any other treatment or preventive measure. It’s a scientific term with a very specific meaning and use.

1. Other posters have already adequately addressed the first part of your post.

2. We all know what a vaccine is.

In the context of "all possible solutions to the problem of covid-19" (especially in the context of the discussion of businesses re-opening), vaccine is just one potential solution. It is easy to say, and appears to be the most likely to happen quickly.

Another way of expressing the same idea would be to say I take vaccine as shorthand for all of the potential solutions, especially as it is the one that is most likely to happen quickly.

I'm sure if we developed a cure for this virus, WDW would also re-open.

That said, there has recently been promising progress in the vaccine development.

 

[Touchdown]

Which is why you don’t loosen restrictions at the peak, you start doing them (gradually) once you are well and truely on the downward slope. According to the Washington model we will have 1/3rd the amount of hospitalized pts on May 1 as we do during our peak. Slowly letting businesses open up with social distancing will likely start then. Also, Austria is about to try and do it, we will have great data from them about what happens.

 

[The Mom]

Guys - you're starting the we should have, could have, would have argument AGAIN! Please stop. Thank you.

 

[peter11435]

1. Other posters have already adequately addressed the first part of your post.

2. We all know what a vaccine is.

In the context of "all possible solutions to the problem of covid-19" (especially in the context of the discussion of businesses re-opening), vaccine is just one potential solution. It is easy to say, and appears to be the most likely to happen quickly.

Another way of expressing the same idea would be to say I take vaccine as shorthand for all of the potential solutions, especially as it is the one that is most likely to happen quickly.

I'm sure if we developed a cure for this virus, WDW would also re-open.

That said, there has recently been promising progress in the vaccine development.

1. Actually no, they have not. You can not dispute that many viruses do not have vaccines. People have tried to dispute it but it remains a fact. There are viruses besides HIV that kill or infect many people that despite years of scientific effort do not have vaccines. Safe and effective vaccines are not always possible. Hopefully in this case they will be.

2. I would hope all know what a vaccine is but evidence throughout this thread would seem to imply otherwise.

Vaccines are certainly one possible solution to this problem. It would be the most effective but still not a sure thing.

Vaccine can not and should not be used as shorthand to refer to any solution other than a vaccine. A vaccine is a very specific solution that should not be confused with any other type of treatment, prevention, or mitigation.

There has been some promising progress regarding vaccine development. But it is still way to early to become overly optimistic on that front. The point being that we must find ways to deal with this problem now and eventually function again as a society without waiting for something that might never come.

 

[MisterPenguin]

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I have no idea why Disney paid everyone through 4/19, but that's a learning for another time.

I think that even Disney, who has never ever been told to close the parks assumed it would actually be 2 or so weeks. They probably thought it would be best and easiest for all involved to keep people on the payroll so they could get things up and rolling again ASAP.

 

[flynnibus]

I completely agree - that's why the union "negotiated" nothing as they have zero leverage. And call it whatever you want, but not paying you is fired/laid-off/furloughed/unemployed. Yes, you get your token benefits for now, until they officially lay you off when the demand is not there when they reopen. I have no idea why Disney paid everyone through 4/19, but that's a learning for another time.

I don't think you've thought any of this through...

When you work in a seniority system... protecting that is huge. Also, protecting the roles and who can do what is not trivial. Imagine if Disney laid all the people off and then tried to have a smaller group of people do 'many tasks'. I'm sure the unions ensured that only the correct role could do a task.. not a scab. This ensures the union people will do the essential jobs.. with the right people. The people having their benefits and not being forced to pay COBRA are going to disagree with you a lot as well. In addition, by staying in the union, Disney's decision to lay people off in the future still goes through the union.

 

[flynnibus]

I think that even Disney, who has never ever been told to close the parks assumed it would actually be 2 or so weeks. They probably thought it would be best and easiest for all involved to keep people on the payroll so they could get things up and rolling again ASAP.

You do it to buy time to come with the alternates and avoid the labor fights.... plus you can show it as being compassionate.

 

[Tom P.]

I completely agree - that's why the union "negotiated" nothing as they have zero leverage. And call it whatever you want, but not paying you is fired/laid-off/furloughed/unemployed. Yes, you get your token benefits for now, until they officially lay you off when the demand is not there when they reopen. I have no idea why Disney paid everyone through 4/19, but that's a learning for another time.

Well, there is a possibility that I think people are failing to consider, but I actually happen to think it is worth considering. And that is that perhaps, just perhaps, Disney isn't run by caring, unfeeling jerks who don't care about their employees at all. Perhaps back when the passage of the CARES Act was still uncertain, Disney actually tried to do the right thing by stepping up to help keep their employees' families fed in these difficult times. And perhaps now that the CARES Act is in place, Disney is furloughing these employees and having them collect the enhanced unemployment benefits, but not terminating them so that they can keep their medical insurance in the midst of a pandemic.

It doesn't have to be more complicated than Disney's leadership just choosing to do the right thing. It could be more than that, but it doesn't have to be.

 

[Surferboy567]

Disney has just said Disney + now has 50 Million subs.

That’s a huge milestone...and blows every conceivable estimate out of the water.

Disney Plus Hits 50 Million Subscribers

Within five months of initial launch, Disney Plus has signed up 50 million paid subscribers worldwide, the media company said.

variety.com

Source: Variety

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

I completely agree - that's why the union "negotiated" nothing as they have zero leverage. And call it whatever you want, but not paying you is fired/laid-off/furloughed/unemployed. Yes, you get your token benefits for now, until they officially lay you off when the demand is not there when they reopen. I have no idea why Disney paid everyone through 4/19, but that's a learning for another time.

I would think that there is a force majeure clause in the contract that was written in the most favorable light for Disney. Allowing employees to keep their health benefits with an opportunity of placement once they re-open I think was well done by unions.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

1. Actually no, they have not.

2. Vaccines...

Uh, okay.

( - said in my best Pete Davidson voice for the purpose of a little levity)

 

[JoeCamel]

Hmmmmm...interesting theory. Well, the WARN act requires them to pay all of these furloughed people 60 days notice pay UNLESS they invoke their right not to based on an uncontrollable circumstance. I'll leave it to you to decide what they did.

Dude, read the act and stop spouting what you think you know.

elaws - WARN Advisor

Replace the word

webapps.dol.gov

eta:
What if my employer pays me for the 60 days instead of sending me a WARN notice?

WARN requires 60 calendar days' written notice. The law makes no provision for any alternative such as pay in place of a notice. While an employer who pays workers for 60 calendar days instead of giving them proper notice technically has violated WARN, the provision of pay and benefits in place of a notice is a possible option. Because WARN provides for back pay and benefits for the period of the violation, up to 60 days, generally this approach by an employer用ay in place of notice洋eans that the employer has already met the penalty specified in the Act, if the payment is not required to be made. WARN allows voluntary payments of wages and benefits to be offset against any damages that might be awarded. If, however, a payment is required by another law, contract or company policy or practice, it may not be offset against WARN damages.

This approach may make it difficult for workers to receive rapid response assistance, which is usually carried out at the work site. Workers who are given pay in lieu of notice and who need assistance should contact their closest American Job Center by visiting America's Service Locator or calling 1-877-US-2JOBS (V) or TTY.

 

[Lilofan]

I would think that there is a force majeure clause in the contract that was written in the most favorable light for Disney. Allowing employees to keep their health benefits with an opportunity of placement once they re-open I think was well done by unions.

In regards to the subject of opportunity of a placement, the college and international program have been sent home. That leaves a lot of opportunities to fill positions in all areas of Epcot World Showcase. There was a member that posted the parks and resorts will open slowly however Epcot would not open. I cannot envision a World Showcase cast member substitute who does not reflect the look and able to speak the language of their respective country. ( ie Morocco, Japan, China, Norway, Italy) as examples.

 

[peter11435]

I think that even Disney, who has never ever been told to close the parks assumed it would actually be 2 or so weeks. They probably thought it would be best and easiest for all involved to keep people on the payroll so they could get things up and rolling again ASAP.

I don’t think Disney, who already had parks around the world closed, Some of which had been closed for nearly 2 months, thought for one second that the closure would be for only two weeks.

 

[peter11435]

Uh, okay.

( - said in my best Pete Davidson voice for the purpose of a little levity)

Sounds about right.