News Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Nobody can exactly quantify that number so you can't fairly determine if the economic trade-off is equitable, it's just based on hope.
This goes for your position also. Since we have no way of knowing which course of action would be economically more damaging, you too are simply assuming things. At least we know that the current approach is helping to save lives at the present time.
 

TheDisneyDaysOfOurLives

Well-Known Member
Worst case scenario is hundreds of thousands dead. When that’s brought up it usually hit with.. why do you guys always go to the worst case scenario? Either we go to the worst or leave it out if both arguments. Can’t have it both ways.
Not saying it’s going to be easy at all. We will get through it. Long road ahead and it may take time but it will work out. This is coming from someone that just had to retire 8 years early about 6 months ago and can no longer do the job I had. Wife got terminated beginning of February before this all happened. I get it. Stay positive, it always works out.
Worst case scenario with COVID-19 is millions upon millions dead. The efforts being put in place today is around 250K and that's the high end of the estimate. Those lives are valuable. No mistake. We as a society may not get through it. 10 million have already filed unemployment benefits. There are stories that many more haven't even been able to file yet. That number is going to continue to climb before it gets better. There is a real question to be asked around this because we might not even end up with 3 million people infected in the US. If 47 million people are unemployed, is that a reasonable sacrifice to save 250K people? 1 million people? 2 million people? It's not an unfair question to ask. If the economy rebounds strongly in the next 12 months, maybe it's a question that's not even asked. If it takes 10 years to recover? It's a fair question to ask because this situation will come up again. It's perfectly okay to question the decisions made and if the price is worth it. I don't want anyone to die, but either way you slice it, people will die know matter what decisions are made.

The assumption is it will work out. There's no guarantee as you've placed it.

But what is the end result? Millions homeless?! That is really scary
Very possible. I'd like to think there will be programs put in place to ensure that doesn't happen and people are made whole, but I'm not holding my breath.

I suspect we'll see a return to multi-generational homes in a lot of cases. (Personally, I've always felt them to be beneficial in more than just financial ways, as much as I hate the idea of living under the same roof with my mom again.)
For those that have that kind of support system in place, very possible. Not everyone does.

It's definitely possible to make people whole during all of this and 'restart' everything in a way that is fair across the board. I just don't know if that will be put in place. The America we've seen has been rather cutthroat and 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' approach. What if you've already done that and are now decimated by a pandemic? Or if you're stuck? Shouldn't you have some expectation that in these scenarios, your fears are resolved in a way that you don't have to sit there, panicking because you don't know what tomorrow brings? We already are doing that because of the risk of catching the virus or a loved one catching the virus. That fear has exploded.
 

Jwink

Well-Known Member
This goes for your position also. Since we have no way of knowing which course of action would be economically more damaging, you too are simply assuming things. At least we know that the current approach is helping to save lives at the present time.
economically more damaging is obviously shutting businesses. Most of the people affected are the elderly who are not working any longer. Not saying we should leave them to get sick but your point isn't valid
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
I suspect we'll see a return to multi-generational homes in a lot of cases. (Personally, I've always felt them to be beneficial in more than just financial ways, as much as I hate the idea of living under the same roof with my mom again.)
After the 2008 recession, some with great reluctance and stubborn like an ox moved back in with their parents or in-laws residences due to losing jobs and eventually foreclosing on their homes and 2008 is tame considered what we are going through right now.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
For those that have that kind of support system in place, very possible. Not everyone does.
I certainly don't. I was within inches of having a job that would pay more than I need and offered my mother $200 a week to come and get my boys off the bus and just hang out at the house until I got home. Even though she has no obligations and constantly gripes about money and possibly having to get a job, she virtually yelled at me when I made the offer.
 

TheDisneyDaysOfOurLives

Well-Known Member
It isn’t just a hope—these measures work.

And it’s not just “something” (what is it with some of you and scare quotes?). The aim is to keep people safe and alive.
They might work. They might not. We're all basing this off of models. If in a year's time, we have a vaccine and only 500K have died in the US, but there are a million dead because of other items attributable to the economic shut down, will it have worked? Some peopel are safe and alive while now others are dead. It's a horrible thought, but there are no models that show the impacts of the other side of it, by shutting down the economy. It's easy to point to the hundreds of thousands, maybe a million or so, whose lives were saved. If a model comes out tomorrow that we project ten million will die due to the economic impact of the decisions made if we stay shut down through end of May, would you feel the same?

This goes for your position also. Since we have no way of knowing which course of action would be economically more damaging, you too are simply assuming things. At least we know that the current approach is helping to save lives at the present time.
We don't know either way. We're relying on faulty data in many ways. They're saying 240K if we keep on the path we're going. What if it's 500K with the path we're going? No one knows for certain.
 

Jwink

Well-Known Member
Worst case scenario with COVID-19 is millions upon millions dead. The efforts being put in place today is around 250K and that's the high end of the estimate. Those lives are valuable. No mistake. We as a society may not get through it. 10 million have already filed unemployment benefits. There are stories that many more haven't even been able to file yet. That number is going to continue to climb before it gets better. There is a real question to be asked around this because we might not even end up with 3 million people infected in the US. If 47 million people are unemployed, is that a reasonable sacrifice to save 250K people? 1 million people? 2 million people? It's not an unfair question to ask. If the economy rebounds strongly in the next 12 months, maybe it's a question that's not even asked. If it takes 10 years to recover? It's a fair question to ask because this situation will come up again. It's perfectly okay to question the decisions made and if the price is worth it. I don't want anyone to die, but either way you slice it, people will die know matter what decisions are made.

The assumption is it will work out. There's no guarantee as you've placed it.



Very possible. I'd like to think there will be programs put in place to ensure that doesn't happen and people are made whole, but I'm not holding my breath.



For those that have that kind of support system in place, very possible. Not everyone does.

It's definitely possible to make people whole during all of this and 'restart' everything in a way that is fair across the board. I just don't know if that will be put in place. The America we've seen has been rather cutthroat and 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' approach. What if you've already done that and are now decimated by a pandemic? Or if you're stuck? Shouldn't you have some expectation that in these scenarios, your fears are resolved in a way that you don't have to sit there, panicking because you don't know what tomorrow brings? We already are doing that because of the risk of catching the virus or a loved one catching the virus. That fear has exploded.
Ugh I hope you're right and the government figures out some way to help those most affected.... And yeah...I hate the whole 'ya'll whippersnappers should have prepared better/saved better etc. What's the saying? Ok boomer? That mentality is so dismissive when they don't shoulder the debt and economy that we do. We were told college was the goal and if we didn't go to college we'd amount to nothing. My own mother took out my school loans and I never even signed for them. She did. Now I'm stuck with school loans that I can't pay. If an 18 year old can't even buy alcohol they shouldn't be able to make financial decisions that can impact the rest of their lives.
 

RobWDW1971

Well-Known Member
The economy always, always,always comes back . Throughout history it always comes back. Sure sometimes takes a year, or two or four but it always does. People’s moms and dads, brothers and sisters and daughters and sons don’t.
Using that logic, everybody always, always, always dies. Sometimes it takes a few years, but everybody's mom, dad, grandparents, brothers, and sisters all die.

Not sure the value of that argument, but OK.
 

DisneyDebRob

Well-Known Member
The assumption is it will work out. There's no guarantee as you've placed it.
Im only going by the history of our country. That’s the data I am going by. In time businesses always reopen or other businesses take their place. I’m in no way, as I’ve mentioned before that it will be easy but over the last 245 years it’s worked out.
 

TheDisneyDaysOfOurLives

Well-Known Member
Ugh I hope you're right and the government figures out some way to help those most affected.... And yeah...I hate the whole 'ya'll whippersnappers should have prepared better/saved better etc. What's the saying? Ok boomer? That mentality is so dismissive when they don't shoulder the debt and economy that we do. We were told college was the goal and if we didn't go to college we'd amount to nothing. My own mother took out my school loans and I never even signed for them. She did. Now I'm stuck with school loans that I can't pay. If an 18 year old can't even buy alcohol they shouldn't be able to make financial decisions that can impact the rest of their lives.
I've had this conversation with my grandfather, who has done quite well for himself. Wages have not grown at the rate of other expenses such as rent, mortgages, insurance, food, college, cars, etc. all things that for most people, are part of their daily life. If you took out $100K in school loans and are getting out of school right now, you're screwed. It's sad and heartbreaking, but these people will literally have nothing positive for the next 12-24 months at the very least in terms of job prospects that align with the college degree they sought out because everyone kept telling them they had to have it. Same with those kids in 2008 (hey, I'm one of them). Some will say the same thing happened in the 90s and 80s, but college was much less prohibitively expensive in those times than now and that's just reality and facts.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
economically more damaging is obviously shutting businesses. Most of the people affected are the elderly who are not working any longer. Not saying we should leave them to get sick but your point isn't valid
With all due respect (and leaving aside the fact that the lives of the elderly also matter), you are missing the point entirely if you think that younger people would be minimally affected in a world without the current restrictions. So much has been reported and published on why it’s to everyone’s benefit to flatten the curve, yet somehow the message isn’t getting through.
 

TheDisneyDaysOfOurLives

Well-Known Member
Im only going by the history of our country. That’s the data I am going by. In time businesses always reopen or other businesses take their place. I’m in no way, as I’ve mentioned before that it will be easy but over the last 245 years it’s worked out.
Fair enough. The only comparison to what we have right now are the 30s. We're already north of 10% unemployment and that number will climb. I've seen 40%. I've seen 50%. If those numbers end up being true, then we will be in unprecedented times and the history of our country can be thrown out because we will be rewriting the book on if we can come out of this or not.
 

RobWDW1971

Well-Known Member
Fair enough. The only comparison to what we have right now are the 30s. We're already north of 10% unemployment and that number will climb. I've seen 40%. I've seen 50%. If those numbers end up being true, then we will be in unprecedented times and the history of our country can be thrown out because we will be rewriting the book on if we can come out of this or not.
Not truly comparable because we didn't intentionally do it to ourselves in 1929. We are in truly unchartered waters.
 

Jwink

Well-Known Member
I certainly don't. I was within inches of having a job that would pay more than I need and offered my mother $200 a week to come and get my boys off the bus and just hang out at the house until I got home. Even though she has no obligations and constantly gripes about money and possibly having to get a job, she virtually yelled at me when I made the offer.
I certainly don't. I was within inches of having a job that would pay more than I need and offered my mother $200 a week to come and get my boys off the bus and just hang out at the house until I got home. Even though she has no obligations and constantly gripes about money and possibly having to get a job, she virtually yelled at me when I made the offer.
Same here. My mom is a narcissist (I said that above) and constantly gaslights me among other things. If we moved in...omg...it would get bad fast. She'd be trying to parent my kids-inject her opinion etc. Right now she says 'I'm not seeing anyone because I can't die'..... yet the other day she was arguing with me and said 'cheer up maybe i'll get the virus and die then you'll be happy'. (eye roll). She just recently came in to some money from the sale of my grandmother's house after she passed and hasn't worked in about 5 months because she doesn't 'need' to...(ps it wasn't a life changing amount...like 160k?) and instead of being frugal and renting or buying a nice condo she decided to buy a house? She didn't need a 3 bedroom house? and she is BLOWING through the money---back in august when she came in to the money she offered to pay off our credit card debt and we'd pay her back so we wouldn't have to continue paying interest. Well....we are still waiting for that help. She keeps coming up with excuses. Now, I'm not entitled-it's HER money but SHE offered the help....we didn't ask. So now we are just twiddling our thumbs. But I'm most annoyed because she hasn't worked in MONTHS...right? because she didn't 'need to'....well now that she heard about the stimulus package and the extra $600 all the sudden she's 'worried' and has to file for unemployment. She hasn't been working? But my husband works 70 hours a week and we get to come up short. yay.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
I've had this conversation with my grandfather, who has done quite well for himself. Wages have not grown at the rate of other expenses such as rent, mortgages, insurance, food, college, cars, etc. all things that for most people, are part of their daily life. If you took out $100K in school loans and are getting out of school right now, you're screwed. It's sad and heartbreaking, but these people will literally have nothing positive for the next 12-24 months at the very least in terms of job prospects that align with the college degree they sought out because everyone kept telling them they had to have it. Same with those kids in 2008 (hey, I'm one of them). Some will say the same thing happened in the 90s and 80s, but college was much less prohibitively expensive in those times than now and that's just reality and facts.
Agreed. We grew up poor, in a strict religious household but we were not homeless. We played sports, studied hard in school and fortunately hung out with the good crowd. The one aspect that was instilled in me was a hard work ethic then eventually proper investing long term - young kid until present time ( making your $$ work harder than you do, but not lately ) 😕, and living below your means. But when I went to a school, working multiple jobs allowed me to graduate without loans. Can it be done ? Yes but not without a lot of sacrifice and hard work, some luck and not always keeping up with the Joneses. I just acted like a sponge listening to a lot, reading a lot and setting up a nest egg because you never know when you might need it.
 

John park hopper

Well-Known Member
Agreed. We grew up poor, in a strict religious household but we were not homeless. We played sports, studied hard in school and fortunately hung out with the good crowd. The one aspect that was instilled in me was a hard work ethic then eventually proper investing long term - young kid until present time ( making your $$ work harder than you do, but not lately ) 😕, and living below your means. But when I went to a school, working multiple jobs allowed me to graduate without loans. Can it be done ? Yes but not without a lot of sacrifice and hard work, some luck and not always keeping up with the Joneses.
we are on the same page
 
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