Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[TrainsOfDisney]

Not a good thing for those on the passenger ships... Coast Guard order basically says "go away, we're full"

https://homeport.uscg.mil/Lists/Content/Attachments/62863/MSIB%2020-001%20COVID-19%20Cruiseship%20Medical%20Capabilities_Signed.29Mar20.pdf

Basically saying, plan to stay offshore indefinately, plan to care for your own, evacs will require you to arrange care and transportation shore-side... oh and if you are a foreign flagged vessel, you should check there first..

So a cruise ship at an American port is not allowed to let American citizens off? That doesn’t seem right at all.

 

[flynnibus]

I'm wondering after this is all done if there will be a shift to "locally" flagged ships. Everything registered to a foreign (to the US) country.

Doubtful...

- Maritime laws about assistance still apply
- Governments will still prioritize their own citizens either way (flagged boat isn't going to change that either way)
- the gains from not being US flagged still are there and probably dominate

Short version is... in these situations US boats aren't in any better shape.. and the critical element of 'protecting our citizens' applies either way. The flagging doesn't change it.

 

[Polynesia]

So a cruise ship at an American port is not allowed to let American citizens off? That doesn’t seem right at all.

This is probably a goofy question. But these ships are full of passengers for much longer than planned. How do the keep feeding everyone? I realize all the Disney ships are empty of passengers. That’s not the case unfortunately for other cruise lines.

 

[monothingie]

It does every time I use an English credit card in Publix.

I guess you weren't using American Express.

I'll show myself out now.

 

[MisterPenguin]

This virus beat every safeguard.

1.) Asymptomatic spread - Not only allows transmission without killing the host, but also allows people to be go about their daily lives thinking they are healthy when in fact they are infecting others.
2.) Long incubation period - Allows host to spread disease for long periods of time without symptoms
3.) Human to Human transmission - This is obviously vital to continue the epidemic otherwise if you eliminate the source you stop new infections. Many forget back in Jan. This was still believed to be a disease only found in people who visited the Wuhan wet market.
4.) Droplet transmission - Unlike HIV which is sexually transmitted or Hep A which requires touching a contaminated surface you only need be in vicinity of someone with this to catch it.
5.) Low death rate - While 1 percent isn’t great it is still relatively low in the grand scheme of things. The deadlier something is, the harder it is for the host to transmit as they die before transmitting it to anyone. Hence Part of the reason MERS and Ebola had such a hard time taking off.
6.) Not température dependent - Given outbreaks in warm humid climates, Such as New Orleans, FL, HK, and Philippines it’s safe to say this doesn’t follow a flu seasonal pattern despite everyone at the beginning saying this would be done once spring and summer hit. This allows it to spread unopposed at all times of the year without a break.

To quibble... it missed slightly on #4. If it was also airborne in a additon to droplet-borne, like Measles... well, then, the whole world would have already been infected two months ago.

 

[flynnibus]

So a cruise ship at an American port is not allowed to let American citizens off? That doesn’t seem right at all.

1) most of these boats aren't at the port - they are offshore. There literally isn't space in port for all these boats at the same time
2) a port is a border - it has its own federal constraints vs any normal 'crossing the street'
3) as you've seen in other cases already - just because you are a citizen doesn't mean you can enter the country freely without constraint. Earlier passengers who were abroad were quarantined.

The net of this is normally the coast guard would be a bailout for the cruise ships to get those with medical needs off the boat to shore. Now they are saying 'we don't have the medical capacity, so its on you to arrange that, and on top of that, we still need to assess and approve any evacs'.

 

[flynnibus]

To quibble... it missed slightly on #4. If it was also airborne in a additon to droplet-borne, like Measles... well, then, the whole world would have already been infected two months ago.

I'm starting to think the answer is somewhere in the middle. That maybe it is not fully airborne, but it takes far less than sneezing/coughing to get droplets big enough it can survive in/on. History will let us know after the fact :/

 

[MisterPenguin]

I'm starting to think the answer is somewhere in the middle. That maybe it is not fully airborne, but it takes far less than sneezing/coughing to get droplets big enough it can survive in/on. History will let us know after the fact :/

Respiratory droplets can come about from talking or just breathing. So, yes, it's more than sneezing and coughing. That's why healthcare workers wear masks even though they know not to cough or sneeze on their patients. Simply talking to them is a vector of transmission through respiratory droplets.

Measles don't need no stinking droplets.

 

[lazyboy97o]

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/orders/2020/EO_20-91.pdf

Florida's statewide safer at home order is now online. New Yorkers blamed. Religious services may continue as the first essential activity.

 

[Nemo14]

Many people are reluctant to cancel any pre-paid portion of their trip.
And it isn't just the $, it is also the emotional investment they have made.

Very ill people might even be MORE emotionally invested in getting to see WDW one last time.

As one who faced serious illness just 5 months ago, actually while at WDW, my prayers were more like "please don't let me die here!"

Dad's April 7th lung surgery in Indy was canceled due to needing a ventilator afterwards. The original plan was removing as much of the cancer cells as possible before chemo. Now it's all on pause and waiting on doctors to decide if there will be alternative treatment. My understanding is all surgeries are having to be assessed and approved through the board of directors. All we have now is it will be at least 2 more weeks before surgery would be plausible. So in other words he possibly doesn't get surgery until we are past what they assume is the peak. Even his doctor is angry with the decision to cancel. It's just insane right now that hospitals are even in this position of choosing by odds of long-term survival.

FWIW, my treatment, which is still ongoing , consisted of 3 chemo infusions, 3 weeks apart, then surgery, then 3 more infusions 3 weeks apart. This was the original plan, and has worked out amazingly well for me. I realize we're talking about 2 different types of cancer here (mine is ovarian, stage 4). Don't lose hope about postponing the surgery - the chemo treatments, although not fun, really work wonders Hang in there

 

[Josh Hendy]

T

So a cruise ship at an American port is not allowed to let American citizens off? That doesn’t seem right at all.

Reading between the lines, this is the US gov telling the cruise line owners, "you make huge profits and pay not a single dime of taxes to support the coast guard, medicare, or any other US government service, you purposefully avoid all US regulations regarding wages, working conditions, health and safety and insurance, and you hire practically zero US citizens ... so kindly take some of your tax sheltered, money laundered profits out of the Caribbean banks where you hide them and take care of your passengers with appropriate medical care and evacuation."

 

[The Mom]

I am also confused. As WDW is in the state of FL, the Governor's own words regarding the lack of a state order. Seem both A. Factual B. Relevant to WDW's situation. Which I thought were the guidelines we were supposed to be following.

The statement itself is relevant. Additional comments were drifting into the political category.

 

[JohnD]

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/orders/2020/EO_20-91.pdf

Florida's statewide safer at home order is now online. New Yorkers blamed. Religious services may continue as the first essential activity.

BUT, not large gatherings in public spaces. I would suspect most religious organizations in Florida will continue streaming services with only those participating in putting on the service being inside.

 

[lazyboy97o]

BUT, not large gatherings in public spaces. I would suspect most religious organizations in Florida will continue streaming services with only those participating in putting on the service being inside.

Putting on a service is not usually described as "attending."

 

[Patcheslee]

FWIW, my treatment, which is still ongoing , consisted of 3 chemo infusions, 3 weeks apart, then surgery, then 3 more infusions 3 weeks apart. This was the original plan, and has worked out amazingly well for me. I realize we're talking about 2 different types of cancer here (mine is ovarian, stage 4). Don't lose hope about postponing the surgery - the chemo treatments, although not fun, really work wonders Hang in there

Thanks, I've been sharing a few updates here because while he doesn't have covid-19, the results of hospitals have to prepare for a surge in cases are causing a ripple effect for other treatments.
I know he's frustrated with not receiving answers about what they plan next. Luckily he has a great doctor and care specialist working to get what answers they can.

 

[fngoofy]

If you keep preparing for the “worst”, eventually you’re just going to make that outcome a reality.

That is actually the exact opposite of how science works.
I'm not being snarky. We just can't ever afford to go back to this type of thinking. Stay at home orders, pandemic projections, they should be based on the facts available, the scientific understanding, and the intent to do good.
Science is the first to say they don't know if they don't know, it is part of the scientific method.
But the decisions made need to be on the best understanding rather than platitudes and gut feelings like "preparing for the worst make it a reality."

Never again.

 

[willtravel]

The early recommendations to not wear masks were intended to keep people from hoarding them and thereby not leaving enough for healthcare workers to use.

This is a good piece that outlines the issues with those recommendations:

Opinion | Why Telling People They Don’t Need Masks Backfired (Published 2020)

To help manage the shortage, the authorities sent a message that made them untrustworthy.

www.nytimes.com

We are likely going to hear new recommendations once masks are more available. It's about reducing risk. Not eliminating it. Look at Hong Kong. Mask wearing has greatly reduced/slowed this there:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/01/asia/coronavirus-mask-messaging-intl-hnk/index.html

More useful reading:

It's Time to Face Facts, America: Masks Work

Official advice has been confusing, but the science isn't hard to grok. Everyone should cover up.

www.wired.com

I expect people will be regularly wearing masks when Walt Disney World opens again.

The early recommendations to not wear masks were intended to keep people from hoarding them and thereby not leaving enough for healthcare workers to use.

This is a good piece that outlines the issues with those recommendations:

Opinion | Why Telling People They Don’t Need Masks Backfired (Published 2020)

To help manage the shortage, the authorities sent a message that made them untrustworthy.

www.nytimes.com

We are likely going to hear new recommendations once masks are more available. It's about reducing risk. Not eliminating it. Look at Hong Kong. Mask wearing has greatly reduced/slowed this there:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/01/asia/coronavirus-mask-messaging-intl-hnk/index.html

More useful reading:

It's Time to Face Facts, America: Masks Work

Official advice has been confusing, but the science isn't hard to grok. Everyone should cover up.

www.wired.com

I expect people will be regularly wearing masks when Walt Disney World opens again.

Then you have this article. https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...isk-of-coronavirus-infection-expert-says.aspx
This article makes sense to me. But I am sure I can read another article that says differently.

I do not remember, how did Disney treat H1N1 when it broke out? Or no comparison to Covid-19

 

[JohnD]

Putting on a service is not usually described as "attending."

I agree. But I can see your concern. A church could read the EO to mean the entire congregation could return. I can personally tell you my church doesn't see it that way. Everyone stays home with the exception of those in front and behind the camera doing the streaming.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I agree. But I can see your concern. A church could read the EO to mean the entire congregation could return. I can personally tell you my church doesn't see it that way. Everyone stays home with the exception of those in front and behind the camera doing the streaming.

Exactly. And as we've seen, there are some less than "leaderly" religious leaders who will do exactly that.

 

[Nemo14]

Thanks, I've been sharing a few updates here because while he doesn't have covid-19, the results of hospitals have to prepare for a surge in cases are causing a ripple effect for other treatments.
I know he's frustrated with not receiving answers about what they plan next. Luckily he has a great doctor and care specialist working to get what answers they can.

It's definitely a scary time for any patients out there(and their families), and it can be difficult to get answers when things are changing so fast. But in my experience anyway, I've learned to trust the judgement of the doctors, nurses, and specialists who really are doing what's best for me. As I mentioned before, my cancer markers went from 4000+ down to 20 just from my first 3 infusions. Feel free to PM me about any of this if youdon't care to discuss it on an open forum.