Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Nemo14]

I am not trying to be argumentative (and I feel uneasy asking this of perhaps the most respected member of this board), but...

What does your statement mean? Why is any honest discussion of numbers taken to be an endorsement of death? Are there really folks on this board who think death is good and should not be combatted? Statements like "one death is to many" or "if we save just one life..." are conversation-enders that, if taken to their logical conclusion, are absurd.

Again, with all due respect!

absurd only if you're not one of those lives actually

 

[trainplane3]

DVC update:

Not sure if @wdwmagic would want this info, but here it is anyways.

Spoiler: Text format

Dear Members, I know the last couple of weeks have been a challenge for all of us. As we navigate the rapidly changing COVID-19 environment, we continue to make decisions focused on the health and wellbeing of our Members, Guests and Cast Members. Today I want to share another update with you. As a result of this unprecedented pandemic and in line with direction provided by health experts and government officials, Disneyland Resort and Walt Disney World Resort will remain closed until further notice. This closure affects all Disney Vacation Club properties, including Disney’s Vero Beach Resort, Disney’s Hilton Head Island Resort and Aulani, a Disney Resort & Spa. During this temporary closure, it is our priority to continue providing you with helpful and efficient service, even as the majority of our Cast Members are working remotely, including those in Member Services and Member Accounting. Until the decision is made as to when the resorts will reopen, all reservations scheduled for arrival during the closure time will be automatically cancelled by Disney Vacation Club on a week-by-week basis. Members do not need to cancel the reservation online or contact Member Services. In light of the unusual circumstances and to provide more flexibility, Disney Vacation Club established a temporary cancellation policy to supplement our existing cancellation rules. Details include: Vacation Points returned due to a cancellation of a resort reservation will not be placed in a holding account and will be returned to the current Use Year. This applies to all reservations checking in within the next 30 days. When a reservation involving Borrowed Points is cancelled, the Borrowed Points will be returned to the Use Year they were borrowed from. This applies to all reservations regardless of arrival date. Please allow up to 15 business days for this process to be completed. The following existing cancellation rules continue to apply: Reservation Points returned due to a cancellation of a Disney Collection Resort reservation will be returned as Reservation Points to the current Use Year. Reservations made with points Banked from the previous Use Year will be returned as Banked Points to the current Use Year. One-time use Points will be returned to the current Use Year as one-time use Points. In addition, some Members may have questions about reservation cancellations involving Points that are set to expire soon. At this time, we are evaluating the banking and expiration policy and the use of certain Points impacted by the closures. As a part of our evaluation process, we need to be considerate of the impact any changes could have on future inventory availability for the Membership overall. A decision will be made when we better understand how long COVID-19 will impact our operations. As we anticipate high call volume in the days ahead, we encourage you to use the Disney Vacation Club website for general information – and we ask that you contact Member Services only if you need assistance with an existing reservation. Any Member who would like to book a new Disney Vacation Club Resort reservation or modify an existing reservation may do so through the Member Online Booking Tool. We realize that disruptions related to COVID-19 are altering your family’s vacation plans, and we thank you for your understanding during this unprecedented time. It is our commitment to stay focused on serving you with ongoing communication and updates. We look forward to “welcoming you home” as soon as we can. Stay well, Terri Schultz Senior Vice President Disney Vacation Club, Guided Adventures & Expeditions and Golden Oak

 

[jmp85]

"Crying" about the economy is not merely a selfish complaint about losing money. It is often a genuine concern about the future of society, really. The "economy" is not just one's pocketbook. It is the sum total of millions of individual human interactions. Life itself, really. It think that is worth being concerned about.

People will change their tunes if we get into a real economic depression.

 

[RobWDW1971]

[/QUOTE]
I'll probably regret saying this, but as society we definitely deem some deaths as an acceptable tradeoff. Something like 6 million people die in auto accidents in the U.S. every year. I bet we could get that number down into the thousands if we mandated a 30 MPH speed limit and strictly enforced it. But we won't. We've implicitly accepted a large number of deaths as a trade off for being able to travel faster.
[/QUOTE]

It's actually about 6 million crashes and 40,000 dead, but your point is still valid, every day society determines the trade off of acceptable (but regretful) deaths.

 

[Andrew C]

And that’s meant to be a good thing?

Anyone belittling this virus or crying about the economy can f@@@ right off so far as I’m concerned.

as someone who was just put on furlough two days ago, I would like my country to fight off the virus so lives can be saved AND get the country up and running again as soon as possible. I don’t think caring about both and wanting the government to deal with both at the same time is an extreme position to hold. I want sick people to get better and I want to work.

 

[jmp85]

I'll probably regret saying this, but as society we definitely deem some deaths as an acceptable tradeoff. Something like 6 million people die in auto accidents in the U.S. every year. I bet we could get that number down into the thousands if we mandated a 30 MPH speed limit and strictly enforced it. But we won't. We've implicitly accepted a large number of deaths as a trade off for being able to travel faster.

It's actually about 6 million crashes and 40,000 dead, but your point is still valid, Every day society determines the trade off of acceptable (but regretful) deaths.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the correction. Just trying to get across what you stated. We make trade offs all the time, even if we don't realize it.

 

[marni1971]

as someone who was just put on furlough two days ago, I would like my country to fight off the virus so lives can be saved AND get the country up and running again as soon as possible. I don’t think caring about both and wanting the government to deal with both at the same time is an extreme position to hold.

That’s what governments are for - to get their countries through the worst of times.

 

[Polynesia]

Trump is also responsible for those deaths. Sucks to be in charge. You get credit for stuff completely out of your control and also get blamed for the bad stuff out of your control.

I thought we were blaming all of this on China anyway

I don’t blame anyone. The other countries are facing the same crisis we are. The US maybe should have been better prepared. But we weren’t prepared under Bush or Obama either. Time to put the blame game to bed. Let’s just all do our part now to make things better. Most of the state governors are doing a good job to get us all through this.

 

[solidyne]

I'll probably regret saying this, but as society we definitely deem some deaths as an acceptable tradeoff. Something like 6 million people die in auto accidents in the U.S. every year. I bet we could get that number down into the thousands if we mandated a 30 MPH speed limit and strictly enforced it. But we won't. We've implicitly accepted a large number of deaths as a trade off for being able to travel faster.

That's what I mean. If "one death is too many"

The worldwide economy is crashing. That is not a reason to want to back off on life saving measures.

Actually, this expresses the two problems (economy crash and disease) quite well. And this is what all leaders are trying to balance. Fighting one almost necessarily means retreat in the other. No one really knows where the right middleground is, as both problems are unpredictable. This board shows that some people at 60/40, some 30/70, some 50/50, and know one can be sure.

 

[hopemax]

I'll probably regret saying this, but as society we definitely deem some deaths as an acceptable tradeoff. Something like 6 million people die in auto accidents in the U.S. every year. I bet we could get that number down into the thousands if we mandated a 30 MPH speed limit and strictly enforced it. But we won't. We've implicitly accepted a large number of deaths as a trade off for being able to travel faster.

If we are going to start to compare COVID-19 with auto accidents we would have to start with the "do nothing" case for automobile accidents. Which means comparing the current deaths with how many deaths we would have had if we did nothing. And then figure out what percentage we have eliminated. So we have speed limits, we have seatbelt laws, we have traffic lights and stop signs, we have child restraint systems, we have rules about making sure auto bodies are strong enough, engines are safe enough, brakes are safe enough, and so on. So go ahead, predict how many auto deaths we would have if we didn't have any of those things? Then compare it to your 6 million. Then compare this to the top line number in the models, and the "stay at home" modeling numbers.

The reality is we DO eliminate millions of automobile accident deaths every year, but we can't eliminate them all. Just like this was never an attempt to eliminate all COVID-19 deaths.

 

[solidyne]

absurd only if you're not one of those lives actually

By absurd I meant, to use the example of a few posts back, if one death truly is too many, there would be more extreme restrictions placed on driving, alcohol would be banned, etc., etc.

(My point has been made many times over. I'm saying nothing new. Just explaining my choice of the word "absurd.")

 

[solidyne]

If we are going to start to compare COVID-19 with auto accidents we would have to start with the "do nothing" case for automobile accidents. Which means comparing the current deaths with how many deaths we would have had if we did nothing. And then figure out what percentage we have eliminated. So we have speed limits, we have seatbelt laws, we have traffic lights and stop signs, we have child restraint systems, we have rules about making sure auto bodies are strong enough, engines are safe enough, brakes are safe enough, and so on. So go ahead, predict how many auto deaths we would have if we didn't have any of those things? Then compare it to your 6 million. Then compare this to the top line number in the models, and the "stay at home" modeling numbers.

The reality is we DO eliminate millions of automobile accident deaths every year, but we can't eliminate them all. Just like this was never an attempt to eliminate all COVID-19 deaths.

No one (that I know of) is saying "do nothing" to fight CV19.

 

[RobWDW1971]

I don’t blame anyone. The other countries are facing the same crisis we are. The US maybe should have been better prepared. But we weren’t prepared under Bush or Obama either. Time to put the blame game to bed. Let’s just all do our part now to make things better. Most of the state governors are doing a good job to get us all through this.

Yet it is the states, not the federal government, who are accountable for their hospitals, medical supplies, and healthcare of their individual populations. I find it fascinating that the two richest economies in the country, NY and CA, daily waive their accountability.

 

[DisneyCane]

Who in their right mind is taking health advice from social media? Yeah, I know, a lot are.

But that is a very, very, very, very dumb thing to do.

Please, everyone, just go to your state health website for local information. And go to CDC or WHO site for the most up to date medical information.

If your choice of news reporting isn't quoting these sources, turn them off and never go back to them. They are dangerous to your health. Seriously, any social media whether it is a Twitter account, a Facebook repost of some article, a pod cast, a website, a broadcast news channel... if they're not quoting the CDC and actual state health agencies, turn them off (unsubscribe, unfriend, block) and never go back to them again. They're not only not worth it, they can cause you more harm than good.

You're not going to find the CDC telling you to stop taking Advil (Ibuprofen).

And, under a better safe than sorry doctrine. WHO recommended not taking Ibuprofen for a hot minute because of one French doctor's claim, but has since dropped their don't-take recommendation:

Those poor people in Iran that took the horrible advice to drink methanol for a COVID-19 cure should be an example of why this advice is so important. I learned in middle school that methanol was a poison.

 

[hopemax]

No one (that I know of) is saying "do nothing" to fight CV19.

It was more a statement to why we aren't doing more to prevent auto deaths. The reality is we do a ton to prevent auto deaths. You can't just take the current stats as the starting point. The starting point is many, many, many more.

 

[Josh Hendy]

New York City is already starting to breakdown healthcare wise. Also the outbreak wasn't traced to any Chinese workers in Italy

I heard, and tended to believe, the theory that Wuhanese living and working in textile factories in northern Italy might be responsible for helping the initial outbreak get started. I tried to find out more but the official information from Italy has been somewhat obscure and contradictory.

One of the tragi-comic aspects of Italy's response to the potential spread of the disease from China was, before imposing travel restrictions, some local authorities decided that racism was a worse problem than the virus so they launched a "hug a Chinese person" campaign on social media.

Anyways, for those of you who are interested in what went wrong in Italy, it's interesting that Fauci has told CNN the following ... unfortunately without citing sources:

“Italy got hit very badly because they had a large number of importations from China by Chinese tourists,” Fauci said.

“Before they even knew what was going on, there was enough baseline people spreading that it essentially got out of hand, and it became difficult for them, as good as they are, and they’re very good, to be able to contain it in a way that is contact-tracing. It was more mitigation,” the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases continued.

Fauci: Italy ‘Hit Very Badly’ By Coronavirus Due to Prevalence of Chinese Tourists | National Review

Fauci said that Italy has been impacted particularly badly by the coronavirus because the country hosted a high number of Chinese tourists in recent months.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[marni1971]

Are you ok? I've never seen you so upset.

I think I maybe have had a little meltdown. Thanks for asking though.

 

[jmp85]

If we are going to start to compare COVID-19 with auto accidents we would have to start with the "do nothing" case for automobile accidents. Which means comparing the current deaths with how many deaths we would have had if we did nothing. And then figure out what percentage we have eliminated. So we have speed limits, we have seatbelt laws, we have traffic lights and stop signs, we have child restraint systems, we have rules about making sure auto bodies are strong enough, engines are safe enough, brakes are safe enough, and so on. So go ahead, predict how many auto deaths we would have if we didn't have any of those things? Then compare it to your 6 million. Then compare this to the top line number in the models, and the "stay at home" modeling numbers.

The reality is we DO eliminate millions of automobile accident deaths every year, but we can't eliminate them all. Just like this was never an attempt to eliminate all COVID-19 deaths.

Understood and agreed. I'm all for reasonable measures to reduce the outbreak (speed limits, safety belts). I have a problem however when people start talking about extended lockdowns for months on end. I think such measures would lead to a true depression with unimaginable consequences.

I'm going to dip out of this discussion for a little bit. I wish everyone good health and hope we are one day closer to seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Trump is also responsible for those deaths. Sucks to be in charge. You get credit for stuff completely out of your control and also get blamed for the bad stuff out of your control.

I thought we were blaming all of this on China anyway

 

[Clamman73]

Yesterday I was at Home Depot (here on Long Island) getting some landscape stuff and it was very weird and quiet inside. If you time traveled from a past time pre Corona, you would get the feeling “something happened” in the world.