Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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"El Gran Magnifico"

Mr Flibble is Very Cross.
Looks like SCOTUS might be busy soon. This is going to be very, very interesting. And historic.


We've hit the line and are walking on it right now. I personally think the Federal Gov't does have the authority. Many others do not share that view. Looks like we may find out very soon.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Slight change of topic. Maybe this will help calm things a bit.

I work in a lab with other scientists and we've been talking about this for maybe 10 weeks now. One of the less morose/politically charged topics that we've discussed is long term cultural changes here in the U.S. and worldwide. Before I start, feel free to throw out your own and, of course, discuss the likelihood of any of these that strike your fancy. 1) My boss is a world traveler. He's a geophysicist so some of his traveling takes him to places like Antarctica that are truly irrelevant for this discussion. However, his best friend is Japanese and he loves Japanese culture. He wonders if we will wind up being cleaner like the Japanese. I find this incredibly unlikely as a lifelong slovenly American, but maybe he's right and and I'm wrong. 2) A big lifestyle change in my half century on this planet has been the amount I and my fellow countrymen eat out. It has morphed from a special thing to almost daily in some cases. I conjectured at one lunch that people might cook more. I have bias here too. I like to cook. 3) One person predicted less pleasure travel world wide. I find this unlikely. Of course, it wasn't my idea. I predicted 4) less professional conferences. My field (accelerator mass spectrometry) is an extreme case. So few instruments exist on the planet that we have a meeting every 2-3 years and it rotates amongst the continents. Our next one is in Australia. As I've gotten older, I've really come to question the usefulness of the traditional conference except for a younger person networking. In fact, the most useful work travel I've done in 20 years was visiting a lab in California to learn a new technique before hopping on a plane to continue my travels to Nagoya, Japan and go to a conference. My presentation there went OK with the same people agreeing with me who I knew would agree with me and the same people hassling me who I know would hassle me. 5) Lots of TV folk predicting more working from home and teleworking in general. 6) This is huge for me. I'm a fan of almost every team sport you can think of...except for that handball thing I see in the Olympics. I don't get that one at all. But, I digress. Sports. They are artificial in the biggest sense. We care about people, we've never met before and in Kurt Vonnegut's terminology we're all part of a granfalloon (a group of people who affect a shared identity or purpose, but whose mutual association is meaningless). Will sports getting cancelled hurt long term popularity or will our emotional and intellectual ties to our respective teams and individuals cause them to come roaring back with a popularity heretofore unforeseen and eventually lead to the incredibly bloody post game riots after mere exhibition and preseason games?

In the long term, I would hate to see us become less mobile and social as a result of this crisis. I look forward to going back to handshakes, hugs, and kisses on cheeks when it’s safe to do so. Cleanliness is another matter, however, and I’d really welcome a shift in personal-hygiene standards (it always amazes me how many men leave public bathrooms without washing their hands).
 

Frank the Tank

Well-Known Member
Understood and agreed. I'm all for reasonable measures to reduce the outbreak (speed limits, safety belts). I have a problem however when people start talking about extended lockdowns for months on end. I think such measures would lead to a true depression with unimaginable consequences.

I'm going to dip out of this discussion for a little bit. I wish everyone good health and hope we are one day closer to seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

The challenge is that there’s no middle ground. There isn’t a “halfway” measure to slow the spread of the coronavirus. We saw the piecemeal approach earlier this month with states and cities attempting to encourage people to curb social interactions on their own but not actually taking the step to order closures of public gathering places was completely ineffective.

Unfortunately, too many Americans have shown that if you give them an inch in this crisis, they’ll take 2 or 3 inches, whether it was continuing to pack bars for Maris Gras and St. Patrick’s Day despite warnings or hoarding toilet paper, disinfectant wipes and pretty any other vital supplies and food that people need to get through this time. Pretty much the only thing that people will respond to is an actual government order, which is why it’s so frustrating to see the federal government in particular (but also certain state governments such as Florida) giving mixed halfway messages about trying to open back up as soon as possible even though cases are rising exponentially.

For those that are still somehow skeptical about this being an extraordinary health crisis and trying to compare it to the “normal” flu or car accidents, I just ask how they can ignore what’s happening in New York (much less Italy or China). New York isn’t setting up a makeshift hospital in a massive convention center just for the heck of it in response to a supposedly alarmist media - the health crisis is real and it’s HERE. Chicago (the area where I live) is now doing the same thing with McCormick Place in preparation for the coming wave of patients... and note that the State of Illinois has taken much more stringent statewide measures than Florida over the past few weeks to close off social gatherings and shutting down non-essential businesses. Anyone that thinks that Florida is going to somehow escape this with its Molotov cocktail combination of tourists, vacation home owners and elderly residents without drastic measures (which frankly might be too late to deploy at this point) is probably in for a rude awakening in the next couple of weeks. I really hope that I’m wrong... but pretty much every hope that this wouldn’t turn out to be as bad as it is now has been wrong.

Look - I’m someone with degrees in finance, economics and law. One of my best friends just got laid off this week and my own 401(k) plan has been beaten like a drum. My own employer had financial issues and needed to lay people off even before this pandemic. So, I understand the worries that these measures are causing a huge amount of economic pain. However, what a lot of the people that seem to prioritize the economic argument over the public health argument are missing is that the economic problems won’t be solved until the public health crisis is solved.

When I say “public health crisis”, this isn’t about sheer numbers of death compared to the flu or car accidents or how high the mortality rate might be for COVID-19, but rather the massive influx of patients on our health care system all at one time. Don’t think of this in terms of how many people die per year, but rather what would your hospital system look like if you had *multiple* Hurricane Katrinas or September 11th attacks all at one time. *That* is what we’re facing - it’s the equivalent of multiple massive natural disasters hitting the *entire* world all in a compressed time period. It’s the public health equivalent of an asteroid hitting the Earth.

The problem that I foresee is that federal government and too many locales are still hesitant to rip the proverbial band-aid off for a true nationwide lockdown, which means that once New York gets under control, we’ll see a place like Florida on the upswing of cases... which means everyone the country effectively still has to lockdown even longer and will prolong the economic malaise.

If you want our economy back on track and your stock portfolios replenished (as I do), we should have had a 3-week mandatory *national* lockdown. Our economy would have taken the same massive shock to its system as now, but it would have had the impact of a coordinated national flattening of the curve and give us a chance that this would just be a quarter-long blip to an otherwise healthy economy.

Instead, this piecemeal local approach means that we’ll probably have outbreaks in different locations over a much longer period of time... which means more lockdowns over a longer period of time... which means what should have been a quarter-long economic blip can turn into a years-long economic recession or even depression.

Lockdowns aren’t causing economic pain. It’s the virus that’s causing economic pain, and until that’s under control, the economy can’t function no matter how many people want to believe that we can just magically open up stores and restaurants by a certain date and everything will be magically fine. The only solution to our economic problem is a solution to the public health crisis, NOT the other way around.
 

seascape

Well-Known Member
Trump is also responsible for those deaths. Sucks to be in charge. You get credit for stuff completely out of your control and also get blamed for the bad stuff out of your control.

I thought we were blaming all of this on China anyway;)
I know Trump is. The one thing everyone has to realize is the solution is as bad as the disease and we will we will all pay the price. What we really need to do once this is over is face reality. That means living within our needs and save for a rainy day. This is not political but both parties are to blame and our own stupidity for allowing it. It was so predictable that a disease liike this would happen. New York state even did a study. Cuomo said no state prepared because it would never happen but that the Federal government should have. Yes and in 2015 when the study was done the Obama and Biden Administration should have. But they didn't even get N95 masks stockpiled.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I know Trump is. The one thing everyone has to realize is the solution is as bad as the disease and we will we will all pay the price. What we really need to do once this is over is face reality. That means living within our needs and save for a rainy day. This is not political but both parties are to blame and our own stupidity for allowing it. It was so predictable that a disease liike this would happen. New York state even did a study. Cuomo said no state prepared because it would never happen but that the Federal government should have. Yes and in 2015 when the study was done the Obama and Biden Administration should have. But they didn't even get N95 masks stockpiled.
Eisenhower didn’t prepare for this either. Blame Ike ;). Should we blame Woodrow Wilson too. He should have seen this coming after the Spanish Flu under his watch ;) Nobody saw this coming. Could we have been more prepared? Sure. Could we have had a task force in place to coordinate response to a global pandemic? Sure. Could we have had more medical supplies and equipment ready? Sure. Will we do all that in the future? I’m sure now.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
The challenge is that there’s no middle ground. There isn’t a “halfway” measure to slow the spread of the coronavirus. We saw the piecemeal approach earlier this month with states and cities attempting to encourage people to curb social interactions on their own but not actually taking the step to order closures of public gathering places was completely ineffective.

Unfortunately, too many Americans have shown that if you give them an inch in this crisis, they’ll take 2 or 3 inches, whether it was continuing to pack bars for Maris Gras and St. Patrick’s Day despite warnings or hoarding toilet paper, disinfectant wipes and pretty any other vital supplies and food that people need to get through this time. Pretty much the only thing that people will respond to is an actual government order, which is why it’s so frustrating to see the federal government in particular (but also certain state governments such as Florida) giving mixed halfway messages about trying to open back up as soon as possible even though cases are rising exponentially.

For those that are still somehow skeptical about this being an extraordinary health crisis and trying to compare it to the “normal” flu or car accidents, I just ask how they can ignore what’s happening in New York (much less Italy or China). New York isn’t setting up a makeshift hospital in a massive convention center just for the heck of it in response to a supposedly alarmist media - the health crisis is real and it’s HERE. Chicago (the area where I live) is now doing the same thing with McCormick Place in preparation for the coming wave of patients... and note that the State of Illinois has taken much more stringent statewide measures than Florida over the past few weeks to close off social gatherings and shutting down non-essential businesses. Anyone that thinks that Florida is going to somehow escape this with its Molotov cocktail combination of tourists, vacation home owners and elderly residents without drastic measures (which frankly might be too late to deploy at this point) is probably in for a rude awakening in the next couple of weeks. I really hope that I’m wrong... but pretty much every hope that this wouldn’t turn out to be as bad as it is now has been wrong.

Look - I’m someone with degrees in finance, economics and law. One of my best friends just got laid off this week and my own 401(k) plan has been beaten like a drum. My own employer had financial issues and needed to lay people off even before this pandemic. So, I understand the worries that these measures are causing a huge amount of economic pain. However, what a lot of the people that seem to prioritize the economic argument over the public health argument are missing is that the economic problems won’t be solved until the public health crisis is solved.

When I say “public health crisis”, this isn’t about sheer numbers of death compared to the flu or car accidents or how high the mortality rate might be for COVID-19, but rather the massive influx of patients on our health care system all at one time. Don’t think of this in terms of how many people die per year, but rather what would your hospital system look like if you had *multiple* Hurricane Katrinas or September 11th attacks all at one time. *That* is what we’re facing - it’s the equivalent of multiple massive natural disasters hitting the *entire* world all in a compressed time period. It’s the public health equivalent of an asteroid hitting the Earth.

The problem that I foresee is that federal government and too many locales are still hesitant to rip the proverbial band-aid off for a true nationwide lockdown, which means that once New York gets under control, we’ll see a place like Florida on the upswing of cases... which means everyone the country effectively still has to lockdown even longer and will prolong the economic malaise.

If you want our economy back on track and your stock portfolios replenished (as I do), we should have had a 3-week mandatory *national* lockdown. Our economy would have taken the same massive shock to its system as now, but it would have had the impact of a coordinated national flattening of the curve and give us a chance that this would just be a quarter-long blip to an otherwise healthy economy.

Instead, this piecemeal local approach means that we’ll probably have outbreaks in different locations over a much longer period of time... which means more lockdowns over a longer period of time... which means what should have been a quarter-long economic blip can turn into a years-long economic recession or even depression.

Lockdowns aren’t causing economic pain. It’s the virus that’s causing economic pain, and until that’s under control, the economy can’t function no matter how many people want to believe that we can just magically open up stores and restaurants by a certain date and everything will be magically fine. The only solution to our economic problem is a solution to the public health crisis, NOT the other way around.

This this this this this!!!!
 

easyrowrdw

Well-Known Member
Anyone who is missing baseball and just bored today and enjoys watching stud pitchers mow down hitters its strikeout Saturday on ESPN. Watching Clemens strikeout 20 right now, next up is Kerry Wood, then Randy Johnson and finally Scherzer from a few years ago. Realizing how much better sports are in HD :)

Nice. According to Bill James's metrics that Kerry Wood game is the best a pitcher ever had (in a 9 inning game). The one hit the Astros got was a dribbler. The break on some of his pitches was insane. It's a shame what happened to his arm.
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
In the long term, I would hate to see us become less mobile and social as a result of this crisis. I look forward to going back to handshakes, hugs, and kisses on cheeks when it’s safe to do so. Cleanliness is another matter, however, and I’d really welcome a shift in personal-hygiene standards (it always amazes me how many men leave public bathrooms without washing their hands).

I agree with your sentiments. I have a feeling that with regards to cleanliness, there will be an increase that will slowly degrade over time. Maybe my two high school kids will be like my parents and use the "cleanliness is next to godliness" line all the time. I remember dusting as a kid and laying out all the knick knacks on the floor in a mirror image of the way they were because if they weren't put back in exactly the same way there would be hell to pay. Not as bad as that Misery movie though.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
This this this this this!!!!

I mean. It was nice to read and he makes a strong argument. But it also included assumptions, false choices, and didn’t take data into consideration or the fact that the virus spreads differently from state to state. It was as strong opinion and I appreciated it but I am going to leave it to the multiple experts to provide fact based opinions to POTUS.
 

easyrowrdw

Well-Known Member
If it spreads like wildfire, nationwide quarantine cannot be ruled out.

Looks like SCOTUS might be busy soon. This is going to be very, very interesting. And historic.


We've hit the line and are walking on it right now. I personally think the Federal Gov't does have the authority. Many others do not share that view. Looks like we may find out very soon.

I think it depends on what he means. From what I've read the feds may have the power to halt movement from one state to another. If that's what he means, then it might be enforceable. If he means restrictions within the states like keeping them inside their residences and such, then I'd say no.
 

MaryJaneP

Well-Known Member
It seems that some are missing the problems, beyond an early death, that this pandemic is currently causing. Some of the problems are time dependent. They include things like overwhelming the current healthcare system. Also the very rapid spike in those catching this virus and suffering severe symptoms. If any other activity, be it driving a car or attending a sporting event, resulted in the mass short-term effects of this pandemic, then maybe limitations should be imposed on that activity. It is a bad comparison to take an annual country-wide death toll from traffic accidents and try to equate that to a much more narrowly focused timeframe of deaths from complications this virus is creating. If deaths from car accidents were of such a volume that they were overwhelming a healthcare system's ability to provide treatment, yeah, there probably would be restrictions implemented. Time is a factor here as is the limitations of affected nation's healthcare systems to provide the care needed. Steps currently underway seem directed to reduce the likelihood of an overwhelming by lengthening the time over which the need for care can be spread out to avoid creating bursting the healthcare system at the seams and by providing more resources to that self same healthcare system. But, it you want to remain opposed to preventing this abomination, please have at it.
 

Polynesia

Well-Known Member
The challenge is that there’s no middle ground. There isn’t a “halfway” measure to slow the spread of the coronavirus. We saw the piecemeal approach earlier this month with states and cities attempting to encourage people to curb social interactions on their own but not actually taking the step to order closures of public gathering places was completely ineffective.

Unfortunately, too many Americans have shown that if you give them an inch in this crisis, they’ll take 2 or 3 inches, whether it was continuing to pack bars for Maris Gras and St. Patrick’s Day despite warnings or hoarding toilet paper, disinfectant wipes and pretty any other vital supplies and food that people need to get through this time. Pretty much the only thing that people will respond to is an actual government order, which is why it’s so frustrating to see the federal government in particular (but also certain state governments such as Florida) giving mixed halfway messages about trying to open back up as soon as possible even though cases are rising exponentially.

For those that are still somehow skeptical about this being an extraordinary health crisis and trying to compare it to the “normal” flu or car accidents, I just ask how they can ignore what’s happening in New York (much less Italy or China). New York isn’t setting up a makeshift hospital in a massive convention center just for the heck of it in response to a supposedly alarmist media - the health crisis is real and it’s HERE. Chicago (the area where I live) is now doing the same thing with McCormick Place in preparation for the coming wave of patients... and note that the State of Illinois has taken much more stringent statewide measures than Florida over the past few weeks to close off social gatherings and shutting down non-essential businesses. Anyone that thinks that Florida is going to somehow escape this with its Molotov cocktail combination of tourists, vacation home owners and elderly residents without drastic measures (which frankly might be too late to deploy at this point) is probably in for a rude awakening in the next couple of weeks. I really hope that I’m wrong... but pretty much every hope that this wouldn’t turn out to be as bad as it is now has been wrong.

Look - I’m someone with degrees in finance, economics and law. One of my best friends just got laid off this week and my own 401(k) plan has been beaten like a drum. My own employer had financial issues and needed to lay people off even before this pandemic. So, I understand the worries that these measures are causing a huge amount of economic pain. However, what a lot of the people that seem to prioritize the economic argument over the public health argument are missing is that the economic problems won’t be solved until the public health crisis is solved.

When I say “public health crisis”, this isn’t about sheer numbers of death compared to the flu or car accidents or how high the mortality rate might be for COVID-19, but rather the massive influx of patients on our health care system all at one time. Don’t think of this in terms of how many people die per year, but rather what would your hospital system look like if you had *multiple* Hurricane Katrinas or September 11th attacks all at one time. *That* is what we’re facing - it’s the equivalent of multiple massive natural disasters hitting the *entire* world all in a compressed time period. It’s the public health equivalent of an asteroid hitting the Earth.

The problem that I foresee is that federal government and too many locales are still hesitant to rip the proverbial band-aid off for a true nationwide lockdown, which means that once New York gets under control, we’ll see a place like Florida on the upswing of cases... which means everyone the country effectively still has to lockdown even longer and will prolong the economic malaise.

If you want our economy back on track and your stock portfolios replenished (as I do), we should have had a 3-week mandatory *national* lockdown. Our economy would have taken the same massive shock to its system as now, but it would have had the impact of a coordinated national flattening of the curve and give us a chance that this would just be a quarter-long blip to an otherwise healthy economy.

Instead, this piecemeal local approach means that we’ll probably have outbreaks in different locations over a much longer period of time... which means more lockdowns over a longer period of time... which means what should have been a quarter-long economic blip can turn into a years-long economic recession or even depression.

Lockdowns aren’t causing economic pain. It’s the virus that’s causing economic pain, and until that’s under control, the economy can’t function no matter how many people want to believe that we can just magically open up stores and restaurants by a certain date and everything will be magically fine. The only solution to our economic problem is a solution to the public health crisis, NOT the other way around.
I think you like to paint the worst picture possible. Things will change assuredly. But New York is super jam packed with people on top of each other. California is a huge state but doesn’t have the same numbers as New York. It’s hard to lockdown counties with no cases or very few. There has to be a balance. I’m on lockdown now and follow the rules. I’m trying to stay positive that the measures taken are working. Unfortunately for New York they have a governor who told people to go out to see a show when this was starting. He didn’t know any better. And keeping schools open when many states had already shut them down also hurt. The states are learning as this progresses. Stay healthy everyone.
 

DisneyDebRob

Well-Known Member
as someone who was just put on furlough two days ago, I would like my country to fight off the virus so lives can be saved AND get the country up and running again as soon as possible. I don’t think caring about both and wanting the government to deal with both at the same time is an extreme position to hold. I want sick people to get better and I want to work.
It’s not a extreme position but virtually impossible in a wide spread and moving pandemic.
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
They are already turning to butter? Few stores around here are out of it and the only thing I can think is more kids home so more Mac and cheese and grilled cheese sandwiches?

We got hit hardest on pasta and crushed tomatoes.

Probably has something to do with the fact my town is about 80% Italian background. Probably.


I always have a stockpile of pasta so I was unaffected.
 
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