Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[mikejs78]

What other parts of the CDC response do you feel they have gotten wrong?

A few:
* They were too slow to change the guidance around isolation. Five days was reasonable but the whole 5 days + 5 with a mask doesn't make sense from a scientific standpoint. (5 days + negative antigen would make sense).
* Their intial messaging around masks was very muddled. The intention was correct (save high quality masks for hospitals that needed it) but the way the messaged it hurt the credibility of masks.
* Not so much the CDC, but the FDA has been ridiculous when it comes to kid vaccines. They keep alterning the parameters of the trials (adding more kids, etc) in a way that's not statistically significant (i.e. the additional participants in the trial would not be likely to uncover additional rare adverse affects.
* They messed up the mask guidance change in May of 2021.
* CDC should have had a better approach to bringing kids back to school in a safe way, earler. There was early evidence that it could be done safely (with masking, 3 feet distancing, etc.). The CDC was slow to adapt.

To name a few.

 

[mikejs78]

Yes, it is creeping up, but we need to use the proper lens (and, “it has increased 42% over last week” isn’t that). Where I love, Yale reports wastewater levels daily. Compare what we are seeing to Christmas:

View attachment 628129
You can barely see the increase.

Yes, which is why I hope this is just a bump, not a real surge. I just don't think we can completely rule out a surge.

Believe me, I hope it's just a bump. I have a trip to WDW in less than a month.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Yes, which is why I hope this is just a bump, not a real surge. I just don't think we can completely rule out a surge.

Believe me, I hope it's just a bump. I have a trip to WDW in less than a month.

Of course. This has been an unpredictable 2 years. All I’m seeing presently is the usual alarmists with no actual data in support. The fact that countries with actual BA.2 surges are dropping masks anyway is also telling.

 

[Tom P.]

I know this is going to be a controversial statement, and it will likely get me a lot of hate replies, but I am just being honest in my assessment here: I don't think a majority of the country *cares* if we get a surge or not. After 2+ years, the population is just done with Covid, whether or not Covid is done with them. I don't think you're going to see mitigation measures coming back even if we do have a surge. I just don't think the people will accept it again this time. Even Dr. Fauci said as much in his recent interview that I quoted in one of these threads. We are just not at the same place, in terms of public opinion, that we were a year ago. IMHO, the public now feels that they have the tools necessary to protect themselves and they are ready to move on, surge or not.

 

[mmascari]

I know this is going to be a controversial statement, and it will likely get me a lot of hate replies, but I am just being honest in my assessment here: I don't think a majority of the country *cares* if we get a surge or not. After 2+ years, the population is just done with Covid, whether or not Covid is done with them. I don't think you're going to see mitigation measures coming back even if we do have a surge. I just don't think the people will accept it again this time. Even Dr. Fauci said as much in his recent interview that I quoted in one of these threads. We are just not at the same place, in terms of public opinion, that we were a year ago. IMHO, the public now feels that they have the tools necessary to protect themselves and they are ready to move on, surge or not.

That was true 2 months ago too. I don't think you're wrong reading the room here. It's still sad. (The public, not you specifically.)

If I was going to fault "go forward" actions that are being done now, it would be the dismantling of testing and vaccination infrastructure that's starting to happen. It goes hand in hand with that public opinion that everyone is done and it doesn't matter what reality is going on, so there's no need for it. But, that's the thing with having the infrastructure in place, having it and we get another surge then we can respond. Dismantling it and we have another surge, and we'll be flatfooted and slow to respond. If we don't have a surge, we end up with some underutilized infrastructure. But since COVID is still simmering along, it's not useless infrastructure. Even if it it does become useless, better to be useless for a few months than removed prematurely.

Likewise, if we dismantle everything, we're not going to see a surge coming at all until after it's way to late.

I hope for the best too (and we're clearly trending that way today), but plan for the worst so we're ready would be prudent.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I know this is going to be a controversial statement, and it will likely get me a lot of hate replies, but I am just being honest in my assessment here: I don't think a majority of the country *cares* if we get a surge or not. After 2+ years, the population is just done with Covid, whether or not Covid is done with them. I don't think you're going to see mitigation measures coming back even if we do have a surge. I just don't think the people will accept it again this time. Even Dr. Fauci said as much in his recent interview that I quoted in one of these threads. We are just not at the same place, in terms of public opinion, that we were a year ago. IMHO, the public now feels that they have the tools necessary to protect themselves and they are ready to move on, surge or not.

From what I've read it's in the 50% range of people wanting to just "move on", so pretty evenly split. I think overall most people are probably okay either way, and it's a vocal minority who are very outspoken.

I was in Los Angeles for two weeks before the mask mandate lifted, including five days at Disneyland. Wearing a mask didn't bother me. I don't really get the people who hate them with an intense passion. It's more of a minor nuisance to me. I was also fine with them still being in place because it's an extra later of protection and I don't want to be sick while on vacation (I swear every time I go to WDW I get a cold the second I step off the airplane).

I also wasn't overly concerned about which way the rules would fall one way or another. I knew the rules could change at any time and I went knowing this was the case. I accepted there's that element of risk when going to a crowded theme park and made the decision to go with the understanding that a rule change could impact that risk factor.

As always, my frustration lies with the people who have prolonged this by not getting vaccinated and not following the rules.

From what I read here, around Christmas time WDW was busy, mask compliance was iffy at best, and people were openly sick. If I were to argue that WDW should be closed it would be due to the lack of vaccinations, the prohibition against vaccine passports, and people not following the rules.

 

[Tom P.]

Just gonna leave this here:

CDC reports fewer COVID-19 pediatric deaths after data correction

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported 966,575 deaths from COVID-19 on Friday after it corrected the data earlier this week, which reduced the death tallies in all age-groups, including children.

www.reuters.com

So the CDC just quietly removed over 72,000 Covid deaths from the count last week because they were wrong. The revised death counts lower pediatric deaths by nearly 24%.

Alrighty, then.

 

[Andrew C]

Just gonna leave this here:

CDC reports fewer COVID-19 pediatric deaths after data correction

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported 966,575 deaths from COVID-19 on Friday after it corrected the data earlier this week, which reduced the death tallies in all age-groups, including children.

www.reuters.com

So the CDC just quietly removed over 72,000 Covid deaths from the count last week because they were wrong. The revised death counts lower pediatric deaths by nearly 24%.

Alrighty, then.

So I assume these children have still died, but from other things?

 

[Tom P.]

So I assume these children have still died, but from other things?

Good question. I know that this is separate from the overall re-evaluation of how Covid deaths are categorized that CDC is undertaking. This Politico article makes that clear. Toward the end, it states, "To better understand how Omicron and its subvariant impact transmission and severe disease, the CDC is reevaluating Covid-19 hospitalizations to decipher how many people are seeking care for the virus and how many tested positive upon arrival." So that re-evaluation is not a part of this 72,000 reduction in reported deaths.

CDC email: Let’s do better with ‘our data’

Agency leadership seeks to improve how it collects and sifts through information to get at better outcomes.

www.politico.com

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Just gonna leave this here:

CDC reports fewer COVID-19 pediatric deaths after data correction

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported 966,575 deaths from COVID-19 on Friday after it corrected the data earlier this week, which reduced the death tallies in all age-groups, including children.

www.reuters.com

So the CDC just quietly removed over 72,000 Covid deaths from the count last week because they were wrong. The revised death counts lower pediatric deaths by nearly 24%.

Alrighty, then.

I, for one, feel much better now that the total is "just" 966k so far. I can't wait for all the COVID deniers to cite this as proof that it's never been a big deal and their conspiracy theories were right all along.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

I, for one, feel much better now that the total is "just" 966k so far. I can't wait for all the COVID deniers to cite this as proof that it's never been a big deal and their conspiracy theories were right all along.

I was listening to npr today and they were saying that a new reort just released says the deaths were way under counted and the the 6 million that have died could be half or more of the actual deaths. They had mentioned John Hopkins so i was just on their site and cant find the report. I came in halfway through the conversation so not sure if its been released or im just not finding it.
The one thing that i did hear was that during the pandemic(dont have the actual timeframe they used…again i was late hearing everything) that there was 18 million more people died then any other time during the same timeframe at anytime. There conclusion,from what i gathered, was with that amount of more deaths then ever, millions probably should be attributed to COVID.
Hoping that they release it soon so we can all dig in and offer opinions.

 

[Nubs70]

I was listening to npr today and they were saying that a new reort just released says the deaths were way under counted and the the 6 million that have died could be half or more of the actual deaths. They had mentioned John Hopkins so i was just on their site and cant find the report. I came in halfway through the conversation so not sure if its been released or im just not finding it.
The one thing that i did hear was that during the pandemic(dont have the actual timeframe they used…again i was late hearing everything) that there was 18 million more people died then any other time during the same timeframe at anytime. There conclusion,from what i gathered, was with that amount of more deaths then ever, millions probably should be attributed to COVID.
Hoping that they release it soon so we can all dig in and offer opinions.

And it all started with a bat.

 

[TikibirdLand]

And it all started with a bat.

Oh, I thought you said RAT

 

[danlb_2000]

I was listening to npr today and they were saying that a new reort just released says the deaths were way under counted and the the 6 million that have died could be half or more of the actual deaths. They had mentioned John Hopkins so i was just on their site and cant find the report. I came in halfway through the conversation so not sure if its been released or im just not finding it.
The one thing that i did hear was that during the pandemic(dont have the actual timeframe they used…again i was late hearing everything) that there was 18 million more people died then any other time during the same timeframe at anytime. There conclusion,from what i gathered, was with that amount of more deaths then ever, millions probably should be attributed to COVID.
Hoping that they release it soon so we can all dig in and offer opinions.

The excess death numbers indicated that there was an undercount in the US, I can only imaging how much of an undercount there were in countries with a less developed public health system.

 

[Tom P.]

The excess death numbers indicated that there was an undercount in the US, I can only imaging how much of an undercount there were in countries with a less developed public health system.

Yet the CDC has already revised numbers down by a significant amount and have said they are working on another reclassification that will likely lower official death totals even more significantly.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Wow…still hammering away here, are we?

 

[danlb_2000]

Yet the CDC has already revised numbers down by a significant amount and have said they are working on another reclassification that will likely lower official death totals even more significantly.

That just increases the gap between the number of excess deaths and the number of confirmed COVID deaths. It doesn't necessarily mean that there weren't also undercounts of COVID deaths.

 

[danlb_2000]

The excess deaths in younger ages occurred AFTER the vax. Hmm...

Also, the number of excess deaths in people under 25 is quite small and pretty consistent through the whole pandemic...

but it is much more apparent in an older age group...

So I am not even sure if I buy the claim that there has been an increase in excess deaths amongst children.

 

[Andrew C]

Yet the CDC has already revised numbers down by a significant amount and have said they are working on another reclassification that will likely lower official death totals even more significantly.

The decrease in the child deaths was what was striking to me with the revised counts. Significant decrease. Not saying anything nefarious going on. Just really stands out.

 

[danlb_2000]

The decrease in the child deaths was what was striking to me with the revised counts. Significant decrease. Not saying anything nefarious going on. Just really stands out.

It's possible that it was miscounting some deaths that happened with COVID as opposed to from COVID, that would lead to lower risk groups have a larger miscount.