Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyCane]

True! Will forever regret my name now. Maybe as a joke I should add something to my signature!

Maybe it is from living so long in south Florida (with a good portion in Miami) but from the first time I saw your name I saw it as "Helena." Maybe capitalize the "b."

 

[correcaminos]

Maybe it is from living so long in south Florida (with a good portion in Miami) but from the first time I saw your name I saw it as "Helena." Maybe capitalize the "b."

Back when I created it decades ago there were no capitalizations in names like that. This truly is a decades old name of mine. Would be weird to see it even with capital letters tbh. I'll deal but truly it wasnt until this forum did I realize how more see it. Likely regional as you implied. I'm more laughing at myself for not knowing how it would be read. I'll just keep saying I'm not a bear

 

[Andrew C]

Back when I created it decades ago there were no capitalizations in names like that. This truly is a decades old name of mine. Would be weird to see it even with capital letters tbh. I'll deal but truly it wasnt until this forum did I realize how more see it. Likely regional as you implied. I'm more laughing at myself for not knowing how it would be read. I'll just keep saying I'm not a bear

Helena (not a bear)

 

[dreday3]

Back when I created it decades ago there were no capitalizations in names like that. This truly is a decades old name of mine. Would be weird to see it even with capital letters tbh. I'll deal but truly it wasnt until this forum did I realize how more see it. Likely regional as you implied. I'm more laughing at myself for not knowing how it would be read. I'll just keep saying I'm not a bear

I always read it as Helena! And our cat of many names is also called Bear.

 

[mmascari]

That just increases the gap between the number of excess deaths and the number of confirmed COVID deaths. It doesn't necessarily mean that there weren't also undercounts of COVID deaths.

It's possible that it was miscounting some deaths that happened with COVID as opposed to from COVID, that would lead to lower risk groups have a larger miscount.

From the links posted here, it sounds like they're adjusting how the attributes on the death records are counted. So, all the times the "had COVID" attribute was missing before, it's still missing now. That's the original undercount, and it's still there. So, no change to that first difference.

The links seem to say, in the past when the stat included COVID on the record it was included more "generously" than what they're changing too. If that's time, or other situation based, it could be lots of stuff. It feels like the original measure was trying to not miss anything while the new measure is trying to draw a more strict cutoff.

It looks like someone who caught COVID and it pushed some other condition over the top, or contributed to some other condition being worse, these are the likely differences. How they draw the line between COVID was the direct and primary cause, COVID was a significant contributing factor, COVID wasn't significant but it made some other condition appreciably worse, COVID wasn't significant but just an additional straw on the pile, to something more removed.

The impression is they're trying to shift where that line is drawn. From a public health and reporting standpoint, you have to draw the line somewhere. Most of these are not clean lines, otherwise most people would die from stopping breathing or their heart stopping. Everything else just contributed to one of those. From a single person personal standpoint, it doesn't matter if COVID is "the one" or just "the last straw". The personal impact is the same.

Most complex stats like this are fuzzy and not black and white. Which is also one of the reasons the excess deaths number is cited often. It doesn't try to call out "the one cause" but just that circumstances changed and the number is way higher the last few years. We then infer that COVID is the largest changed circumstance without trying to tell if it's direct or indirect. It's the bolder thrown in the pond even if the ripple on the edge is what is noticed.

 

[correcaminos]

From the links posted here, it sounds like they're adjusting how the attributes on the death records are counted. So, all the times the "had COVID" attribute was missing before, it's still missing now. That's the original undercount, and it's still there. So, no change to that first difference.

The links seem to say, in the past when the stat included COVID on the record it was included more "generously" than what they're changing too. If that's time, or other situation based, it could be lots of stuff. It feels like the original measure was trying to not miss anything while the new measure is trying to draw a more strict cutoff.

It looks like someone who caught COVID and it pushed some other condition over the top, or contributed to some other condition being worse, these are the likely differences. How they draw the line between COVID was the direct and primary cause, COVID was a significant contributing factor, COVID wasn't significant but it made some other condition appreciably worse, COVID wasn't significant but just an additional straw on the pile, to something more removed.

The impression is they're trying to shift where that line is drawn. From a public health and reporting standpoint, you have to draw the line somewhere. Most of these are not clean lines, otherwise most people would die from stopping breathing or their heart stopping. Everything else just contributed to one of those. From a single person personal standpoint, it doesn't matter if COVID is "the one" or just "the last straw". The personal impact is the same.

Most complex stats like this are fuzzy and not black and white. Which is also one of the reasons the excess deaths number is cited often. It doesn't try to call out "the one cause" but just that circumstances changed and the number is way higher the last few years. We then infer that COVID is the largest changed circumstance without trying to tell if it's direct or indirect. It's the bolder thrown in the pond even if the ripple on the edge is what is noticed.

I've been spending time reading today and came to the same thoughts. There is a lot of gray and while some people will point to "see this happened to make it sound worse" I just point it to shades of gray.

I always read it as Helena! And our cat of many names is also called Bear.

You totally get me!!!

 

[Patcheslee]

10 airlines have submitted a letter to the White House requesting the mask mandate be removed for transportation.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

10 airlines have submitted a letter to the White House requesting the mask mandate be removed for transportation.

I just was watching that on a news program. They want it to end when the mandate is up in April.

 

[willtravel]

But can the unions say they want to keep masks even if the WH lifts mandate?

 

[correcaminos]

10 airlines have submitted a letter to the White House requesting the mask mandate be removed for transportation.

Airline CEOs urge Biden to end mask mandate, testing requirements - Boston News, Weather, Sports | WHDH 7News

(CNN) — The CEOs of 10 airlines and cargo carriers have signed a letter to President Joe Biden saying he should end the transportation mask<a class="excerpt-read-more" href="https://whdh.com/news/airline-ceos-urge-biden-to-end-mask-mandate-testing-requirements/">Read More</a>

whdh.com

For those who want to read more.

 

[Andrew C]

Airline CEOs urge Biden to end mask mandate, testing requirements - Boston News, Weather, Sports | WHDH 7News

(CNN) — The CEOs of 10 airlines and cargo carriers have signed a letter to President Joe Biden saying he should end the transportation mask<a class="excerpt-read-more" href="https://whdh.com/news/airline-ceos-urge-biden-to-end-mask-mandate-testing-requirements/">Read More</a>

whdh.com

For those who want to read more.

Big guns coming out now...I imagine they feel the benefits no longer outweigh the disturbances it continues to cause.

 

[Ayla]

I always read it as Helena! And our cat of many names is also called Bear.

I always knew it was Helena from the Dis.

 

[danlb_2000]

But can the unions say they want to keep masks even if the WH lifts mandate?

Unions can say whatever they want, the question is would they be able to pressure the airlines into listening.

 

[ToTBellHop]

But can the unions say they want to keep masks even if the WH lifts mandate?

I mean, they could theoretically strike but I doubt they have enough buy-in from their membership anymore. A strike involving 3 flight attendants won’t have much impact. I gather the CEOs are speaking out because they are certain they don’t need to worry about this happening.

 

[Andrew C]

Unions can say whatever they want, the question is would they be able to pressure the airlines into listening.

Is it just me or do others feel like the pilots unions would support dropping masks? And maybe a lot of flight attendants in general?

 

[correcaminos]

Big guns coming out now...I imagine they feel the benefits no longer outweigh the disturbances it continues to cause.

Yup! While all my flights have been good, so many are being jerks about it so it's just not worth it as a whole.

I always knew it was Helena from the Dis.

That's ages ago too. I haven't been active there since my son was an infant and they did the crazy mass ban for posting on another site. My son is now 14

Is it just me or do others feel like the pilots unions would support dropping masks? And maybe a lot of flight attendants in general?

Pilots I'd wager yes. FAs? Maybe too many to know for sure.

 

[Lilofan]

Is it just me or do others feel like the pilots unions would support dropping masks? And maybe a lot of flight attendants in general?

Pilots are locked in their cabin away from the drama of guests. I would venture they would be for dropping masks. My flight attendants buddies at this point are 50/50 on dropping masks. When some crew are exposed to covid , test positive, flights are impacted, delayed, cancelled etc when there is little or no crew to work the flight.

 

[mmascari]

Airline CEOs urge Biden to end mask mandate, testing requirements - Boston News, Weather, Sports | WHDH 7News

(CNN) — The CEOs of 10 airlines and cargo carriers have signed a letter to President Joe Biden saying he should end the transportation mask<a class="excerpt-read-more" href="https://whdh.com/news/airline-ceos-urge-biden-to-end-mask-mandate-testing-requirements/">Read More</a>

whdh.com

For those who want to read more.

The article says, bolding mine:

In a new letter, industry group Airlines for America wrote, “now is the time for the Administration to sunset federal transportation travel restrictions — including the international predeparture testing requirement and the federal mask mandate — that are no longer aligned with the realities of the current epidemiological environment.”

So, it's not just masks, but everyone must be fine everywhere, no concern for even slowing down bringing in new transmission.

Or, is there some other vaccination requirement in there that might replace that? It's not like vaccinations for international travel is a new thing.

Otherwise, it seems like a poor plan to encourage more international travel of unvaccinated and unknown infection status people.

(Yes, yes, I know a vaccinated infected person could still infect someone. But the impacts are all much lower. Less chance of being infected, infectious for less time, likely to spread to less people. It's not about perfect, it's about creating friction to reduce transmission.)

 

[ToTBellHop]

The article says, bolding mine:



So, it's not just masks, but everyone must be fine everywhere, no concern for even slowing down bringing in new transmission.

Or, is there some other vaccination requirement in there that might replace that? It's not like vaccinations for international travel is a new thing.

Otherwise, it seems like a poor plan to encourage more international travel of unvaccinated and unknown infection status people.

(Yes, yes, I know a vaccinated infected person could still infect someone. But the impacts are all much lower. Less chance of being infected, infectious for less time, likely to spread to less people. It's not about perfect, it's about creating friction to reduce transmission.)

Hopefully they follow France’s policy--no testing requirement if you’re vaccinated.

 

[correcaminos]

The article says, bolding mine:



So, it's not just masks, but everyone must be fine everywhere, no concern for even slowing down bringing in new transmission.

Or, is there some other vaccination requirement in there that might replace that? It's not like vaccinations for international travel is a new thing.

Otherwise, it seems like a poor plan to encourage more international travel of unvaccinated and unknown infection status people.

(Yes, yes, I know a vaccinated infected person could still infect someone. But the impacts are all much lower. Less chance of being infected, infectious for less time, likely to spread to less people. It's not about perfect, it's about creating friction to reduce transmission.)

I'm pretty sure the testing requirements are for both vaccinated and not. One of my vaccinated friends got caught with a positive test coming from across the pond during break. Not sick really (a tiny stuffy) so they aren't singling out unvaccinated or vaccinated with testing.