Nubs70
Well-Known Member
Science is a process not an end state.
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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
- Thread starter Parker in NYC
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Incomudro
Well-Known Member
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
Exactly. I remember as a kid in the 80's being fearful that another elementary school student would get a cut, bleed on me, and I'd get AIDS. That fear came from seeing news reports.
They also spread misinformation about the risks from different types of adult activity.
If the media had just reported COVID facts without apocalyptic spin then I wouldn't have driven past somebody walking their dog with no human within 1/2 mile of them wearing an N95 yesterday.
This discussion is definitely Disney related because they own ABC and ABC news has been just as guilty of this type of reporting as any other news organization. They also own ESPN which, until recently, had constant scrolls about what athletes "tested positive for the virus" or were in "virus protocols."
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
Agreed. The word Science and its meaning has been hijacked to push an agenda. "The Science" has been misused so much, so often, it feels meaningless to me now...
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Chip Chipperson
Well-Known Member
If your math is correct, then the US has performed pathetically below the worldwide average since the 991,000+ deaths here is approximately 0.3% of the population. Compared to 0.076% worldwide? Awful and inexcusable considering all of the benefits we have.
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
I haven’t checked your numbers, but assuming it’s true, are you be surprised at that even with the benefits we have?
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
That’s if you can trust the data and reporting.
Chip Chipperson
Well-Known Member
So you don't trust the death total??? Are you aware of the Weekly Excess Deaths report that the CDC generates? You can view it on the CDC's website and it shows a endless string of weeks with excess deaths above the expected totals every week starting in late-March 2020. Prior to that, there were 7 weeks of excess deaths from late-December 2017 into February 2018 - and then nothing above the expected range until March 2020. All of those extra deaths had to be caused by something, so I don't see any reason not to trust the data - unless you think they were also faking the data for all deaths long before COVID-19 was a thing.
Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19
Figures present excess deaths associated with COVID-19 at the national and state levels.
www.cdc.gov
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
I can only assume that the death numbers from certain, very populous countries (like China) have drastically underreported their COVID deaths.
We will also never know (in either the US or worldwide) how many deaths should be completely blamed on COVID vs. people who were on the one yard line, so to speak, and COVID pushed them into the end zone. There is no common guideline being used so it makes it very difficult to compare countries to each other even if they were putting out accurate data.
Chip Chipperson
Well-Known Member
Yes and no. Given the advantages we have with health care and sanitary living conditions compared to underdeveloped nations, we should be performing better than average. On the other hand, given the stubbornness of a large percentage of the population who have refused to admit that COVID-19 was ever a real threat, I shouldn't be surprised at all.
Chip Chipperson
Well-Known Member
True, there is no common guideline throughout the world, but we do have statistical projections that we use that have been very accurate at predicting the approximate number of people who will die in this country each week and those projections have gone out the window for the past 2 years.
Also, you can't make the argument that it's "just 0.076% of the global population" in one post and then question the very data you used in another post when shown how the US has fared. Well, you literally can, but it doesn't help your argument to do that.
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
Two things that stand out for me from a heath perspective for the US population.
1. An aging population. The baby boomers are old now and we know how old people did against COVID, especially prior to vaccines.
2. Unhealthy population. I know people hate when people bring this up, but it is reality and is just silly to ignore. We are way worse off in this area than most (if not all) of the other developed nations...and much of the undeveloped or underdeveloped nations. It is really our Achilles heel.
When people who fall into either the above two categories end up in the hospital, it is going to be tough for them. When they fall into both categories, it will be even tougher. Medicine and treatment will only get you so far. The death data we see aligns with this....
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
Certainly COVID caused a significant number of deaths. The excess death chart is interesting but what will be most interesting about it is what it looks like after COVID becomes endemic with a (hopefully) low baseline of cases. Will there be a dearth of expected deaths in the coming few years. I expect there will be due to the number of elderly people who died from COVID. I predict that the data will show that the data will show that the majority of COVID deaths will turn out to be deaths that were accelerated by 1-3 years and not deaths that took decades of good life from people.So you don't trust the death total??? Are you aware of the Weekly Excess Deaths report that the CDC generates? You can view it on the CDC's website and it shows a endless string of weeks with excess deaths above the expected totals every week starting in late-March 2020. Prior to that, there were 7 weeks of excess deaths from late-December 2017 into February 2018 - and then nothing above the expected range until March 2020. All of those extra deaths had to be caused by something, so I don't see any reason not to trust the data - unless you think they were also faking the data for all deaths long before COVID-19 was a thing.
Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19
Figures present excess deaths associated with COVID-19 at the national and state levels.
There were definitely some percentage of people who died due to COVID who would have lived decades longer if not for the existence of SARS-CoV-2.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
The percentage of severely obese people in the USA certainly made the outcomes worse on average vs. other countries. During the worst parts of the pandemic my wife and other physicians that she spoke with were anecdotally reporting that almost every person under 60 that was in the hospital with a severe case of COVID was morbidly obese. We're not just talking a little heavier than they should be but more like 100 lbs or more overweight.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
If we are trying to compare countries to prove how poorly the US has done compared to other countries, we have to trust accurate reporting from countries like China. I can't do that.So you don't trust the death total??? Are you aware of the Weekly Excess Deaths report that the CDC generates? You can view it on the CDC's website and it shows a endless string of weeks with excess deaths above the expected totals every week starting in late-March 2020. Prior to that, there were 7 weeks of excess deaths from late-December 2017 into February 2018 - and then nothing above the expected range until March 2020. All of those extra deaths had to be caused by something, so I don't see any reason not to trust the data - unless you think they were also faking the data for all deaths long before COVID-19 was a thing.
Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19
Figures present excess deaths associated with COVID-19 at the national and state levels.
I don't think they have subdivided the elderly into those who were in nursing homes - which implies poorer health plus aggregate living - versus the elderly living independently, which implies better health or less exposure to infected people.
The death rate also increased with age, with the numbers increasing at 65+ and the old elderly (80+) faring worse than the younger elderly. But there was a slight drop in the numbers in those 90+ Perhaps fewer people or just hardier than average which allowed them to reach that age?
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Andrew C
You know what's funny?
I imagine that type of information can be pulled...and would likely give a clear indication as to just how highly vulnerable those in nursing homes really were to this virus.
Can’t we all just celebrate? I mean look at this map and all that green! It’s time to kick back, drop your guard, and do things you’ve been holding off on for fear of Covid. Remember, under new guidelines the CDC doesn’t recommend indoor masks unless you’re in an orange county.
Chip Chipperson
Well-Known Member
That's certainly fair. However, in that case the original "just 0.076%" argument becomes invalid since it's accepted that deaths have been undercounted in the most populated country in the world.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
Totally agree.
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