Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Chip Chipperson]

In raw numbers it's probably about the same. Percentage wise, anti-vaxxer.

I'm not sure how you think that a similar number of vaccinated people have died from COVID-19 as anti-vaxxers when the number of deaths in vaccinated people is much lower.

Department of Health | Department of Health | Commonwealth of Pennsylvania

The Department of Health provides programs and services that benefit the health, safety, and well-being of all Pennsylvanians.

www.health.pa.gov

Using the numbers from PA as an example, COVID-19 deaths among fully vaccinated people accounted for just 25% of the COVID-19 deaths in August and 29% in September. In raw numbers, that's 1,802 unvaxxed deaths vs. 685 vaxxed deaths for the 2 months combined. I didn't see this broken down by age group, but it is likely that the elderly account for the largest number of vaccinated deaths.

Texas also saw a wide gap and actually broke the deaths down by age group showing that the majority of deaths in vaccinated people were in people 75 or older (from 1/15/21 - 10/1/21). Across all age groups 18 and older during that time, unvaxxed deaths outnumber vaccinated deaths 24,414 to 2,205 (conservatively assuming that the "<10" for the 18-29 age group is 9) . Among the vaccinated, people 75 and older account for 56.37% of total vaccinated deaths, but among the unvaccinated, they account for 31.99% of deaths (although that age group still has the highest death rate per 100,00). (You can find the breakdowns on page 7 of the file linked below).

https://dshs.texas.gov/immunize/covid19/data/Cases-and-Deaths-by-Vaccination-Status-11082021.pdf

To add to the point of articles like the one you criticized, the vocal anti-vaxxers aren't just impacting themselves. They spread false information and influence others to follow their lead and avoid vaccines themselves. So reporting that a vocal anti-vaxxer died from the virus lets people know that they shouldn't have followed that person's advice. How many minds will be changed as a result is unknown, but anything greater than 0 is a positive. Without news stories about them, others would likely never find out about it and have the opportunity to see real-life consequences that come to those who preach or follow that garbage.

 

[dreday3]

Not to argue just not getting how this is the unvaccinated problem? I feel the unmask would be more a of cause of this than those who choose not to protect themselves with the vaccine.

Because they are clogging up the hospitals. Over 90% of covid hospitalizations are unvaccinated.

We all know this.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Pretty much what Vegas Fan is similar to my current thoughts on it. Also I had it twice and I am surrounded by non vaccinated people who aren't even getting sick much less dying. I did my duty to protect others and well know we know the vaccinated can spread it as well as contracting the virus. It is just exhausting and honestly I am tried of being poked.

That sounds more like an argument to stay up to date on vaccination, not stop.

Not speaking directly for the poster in question, but rather in generality - there is a certain amount of fatigue that various people will encounter.
Everyone has their limits.
Some people are just going to be done with it.
Some after two shots.
Some after three.
Some with no shots, and some will never be done.
This will also vary with the severity of the virus - with Omicron being a relatively easy strain to handle, many more people have reached their level of done.
Should a more deadly strain arise, the opposite effect would take place.

And yet you ridicule people for not doing a lot more when it comes to health and diet.

 

[mmascari]

I shall wait for the condescending reply that tells me that I don't understand anything

Nope, that chart is messed up.

The only explanation I can think of is that fully vaccinated people are doing riskier things without any other mitigations, combined with the vaccine being significantly less effective against infection. That's just a random guess though. Kind of like how people do more dangerous stuff as they wear better helmets.

There's probably a good research paper in figuring out why that chart looks like that. Especially since most others do not.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

If the lockdowns cause more collateral damage, was the lockdown a failure or was there a failure to take measures to limit the collateral damage?

Those are the million dollar questions…

We chose to let many prisoners out of prison to protect them from infection, then watched crime rates soar. The idea undoubtedly saved prisoners lives, but that probably doesn’t make their victims feel any better about it.

Closing schools is another decision that has undoubtedly saved lives, but we also know many students are now years behind and will likely never catch up. The students that won’t end up graduating, and will live difficult lives as a result, probably won’t feel any better about it.

Businesses permanently closed, a lifetime of work lost in months, marriages and families broken up due to stress and anxiety, etc, etc, etc. It’s always the unintended consequences that doom us. I’m not arguing any of the decisions were bad, just pointing out there’s always consequences and in most cases those consequences can’t be prevented.

 

[danlb_2000]

Not to argue just not getting how this is the unvaccinated problem? I feel the unmask would be more a of cause of this than those who choose not to protect themselves with the vaccine.

Masks reduce spread, vaccines reduce spread. What is the difference?

 

[Chomama]

No, it isn't. At least not in a truly free society.

Fundamental difference in world view and a gap that probably cannot be bridged.

 

[danlb_2000]

Nope, that chart is messed up.

The only explanation I can think of is that fully vaccinated people are doing riskier things without any other mitigations, combined with the vaccine being significantly less effective against infection. That's just a random guess though. Kind of like how people do more dangerous stuff as they wear better helmets.

There's probably a good research paper in figuring out why that chart looks like that. Especially since most others do not.

What do you think you are seeing in the chart? The chart shows that fully vaccinated people are getting infected less then unvaccinated. Yes, the fully vax case rate is higher, but that is because that is a much larger population.

 

[Incomudro]

That sounds more like an argument to stay up to date on vaccination, not stop.



And yet you ridicule people for not doing a lot more when it comes to health and diet.

I ridicule the fact that people ignore that aspect of their health and wellness, yet jump all over this one.
I also ridicule the fact that by doing so, many of those same people put themselves at a much higher risk of a more serious encounter with covid.
Personally, I'm all for doing what's best for one's health - I've had three shots.

 

[marymarypoppins]

Because they are clogging up the hospitals. Over 90% of covid hospitalizations are unvaccinated.

We all know this.

Drug addicts , alcoholics and people who make poor health choices like the obese also place a burden on hospitals are they also morally reprehensible?

 

[Patcheslee]

Apparently beginning Jan 1st, my employer will no longer pay for any covid leave, including positive test result. Too many people were gaming the system i.e. pending test results someone had to stay home. So people were getting tested just to take off work.

 

[dreday3]

Drug addicts , alcoholics and people who make poor health choices like the obese also place a burden on hospitals are they also morally reprehensible?

If you're bored, try knitting.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I don't know about you, but I've had to go to more than one class to learn stuff for lots of complicated things. Think of each vaccine dose as a class in a larger course and not the entire course all at once.

How many articles do people need to read to learn the "best" way to get on the most rides at Magic Kingdom? I'll bet most people need to read more than one. Most probably even need to read the same articles more than once to get all the meaning out of them.

Teaching your body how to fend off a virus sounds at least as hard as learning how to get the most out of Fast Pass Lightning Lane. Look at that, it mutated to a different variant and needed new directions.

Thats true and I’ve learned more about antibodies, T-cells, B-cells, etc in the last 18 months than I thought I’d ever know… but how many haven’t?

Using your FP comparison it always shocked me how many people didn’t know how to use it, it had been around for a decade and people still thought it was a paid service or something you had to sign up for. They’d spend $100 for a ticket and do no research before showing up.

There is unlimited data out there, you have to look for it though, and now more than ever you also have to be careful what the source is because there’s so much bad data.

 

[Chomama]

Masks reduce spread, vaccines reduce spread. What is the difference?

Both together is better

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Apparently beginning Jan 1st, my employer will no longer pay for any covid leave, including positive test result. Too many people were gaming the system i.e. pending test results someone had to stay home. So people were getting tested just to take off work.

Mine is doing the same, vaccinated employees still get paid sick time with a positive test but the unvaccinated don’t.

They also have to start testing weekly, at their own expense, vaccinated don’t. It’s a good carrot.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Drug addicts , alcoholics and people who make poor health choices like the obese also place a burden on hospitals are they also morally reprehensible?

Those are complex issues dealing with mental and physical health that can take years to address. That’s a whole lot different than 30 minutes at the pharmacy for a free shot even if it is every few months.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Nope, that chart is messed up.

The only explanation I can think of is that fully vaccinated people are doing riskier things without any other mitigations, combined with the vaccine being significantly less effective against infection. That's just a random guess though. Kind of like how people do more dangerous stuff as they wear better helmets.

There's probably a good research paper in figuring out why that chart looks like that. Especially since most others do not.

I think it’s further proof of the articles showing most (or at least many) Covid hospitalizations are for reasons other than covid.

If you go in for a twisted ankle and test positive you’re counted as Covid, even though you aren’t in the hospital for Covid. Since most people in Ontario are vaccinated they are just being tested at a much higher rate.

 

[Patcheslee]

Mine is doing the same, vaccinated employees still get paid sick time with a positive test but the unvaccinated don’t.

They also have to start testing weekly, at their own expense, vaccinated don’t. It’s a good carrot.

Even vaccinated don't get paid. No weekly testing yet, they are still trying to determine which federal mandates will pass and apply.

 

[sullyinMT]

Drug addicts , alcoholics and people who make poor health choices like the obese also place a burden on hospitals are they also morally reprehensible?

The healthcare system of this country (US) is built to absorb/treat those "traditional" bad choices at their typical rates. There's even surge capacity built in to hospitals and rural clinics for when a disproportionate number of poor choices or even "normal" life events (cancer, MI, stroke) or mass casualty (plane crash, mass shooting) occurs.

Why sign up on a Disney fansite just to gloss over the simple truth that the unvaccinated are continuing to put all of this at risk, shifting the scales selfishly in their direction, and with a collective single hand burning out an entire generation of medical professionals only to prolong the pandemic even further - in the name of "personal freedom"?

 

[dreday3]

The healthcare system of this country (US) is built to absorb/treat those "traditional" bad choices at their typical rates. There's even surge capacity built in to a lot of hospitals and clinics for when a disproportionate number of poor choices or even "normal" life events (cancer, MI, stroke) or mass casualty (plane crash, mass shooting) occurs.

Why sign up on a Disney fansite just to gloss over the simple truth that the unvaccinated are continuing to put all of this at risk, shifting the scales selfishly in their direction, and with a collective single hand burning out an entire generation of medical professionals only to prolong the pandemic even further - in the name of "personal freedom"?

You have patience. I admire that.