Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Chip Chipperson]

I don't really think there has been dishonest messaging about the vaccine. We knew the vaccines provided good protection from the original strain of the virus for at least 6 months. We didn't have time to wait and see if the protection would last long term, or if it would hold up to variants of the virus., but they are still providing the most important thing, protection for sever illness and death.

I have gotten three doses of the vaccine, so right now I am on pace to have about 2 doses per year, as compared to the one dose per year I take for flu. It's not like we are being asked to get a covid shot every month.

I agree. The messaging from health officials has been honest from the beginning. When the vaccine makers, FDA, etc. are putting a percentage on the vaccines' efficacy, they are acknowledging quite clearly that they are not 100% effective at preventing cases. The only dishonest messaging is coming from anti-vaxxers "just asking questions" like "If vaccines are safe and effective then why do you need me to get it to protect you?" or "If the vaccines are safe and effective then why are there breakthrough cases?" These talking points were created by anti-vaxxers to con the less-informed and gullible into believing their rhetoric so they can sell more "herbal supplements" or books with recipes for DIY remedies and make them think that they're "thinking for themselves" rather than being sheep.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

You don't recall the estimate 1-2M deaths predicted if steps to close the economy did not happen last year? Better alive than being six feet under.

We’ll never know if those worst case predictions would have happened or not, it’s possible the lockdowns saved a million lives, it’s also possible they saved a thousand lives and caused a thousand and one suicides.

That’s the danger of ignoring collateral damage, a 3 month lockdown “because it’ll save lives” is an amazing idea… if you ignore the fact millions of people will starve to death.

 

[Jrb1979]

Just to circle back to the Ontario, Canada data, here is the latest chart showing the seven day average daily case rate by vaccination status. Their data says that 78% of the population is fully vaccinated and 83% are at least partially vaccinated. Prior to the latest measures there were already indoor mask requirements as well. I shall wait for the condescending reply that tells me that I don't understand anything and that if we just all did the "right" thing, COVID would no longer be an issue.
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You don't understand anything. The more cases you have the higher hospitalizations happen. The problem we have in Ontario Canada is a lot of Hospitals are going to Code Orange due to lack of staff. Between staff being sick and lot quitting due to burnout we don't have to capacity to treat the amount of cases that are happening. It's not that simple to just let it rip.

The biggest difference here is there is still financial systems in place to help anyone affected.

I really wish that "the cure can't be worse when the disease" message never happened.

 

[danlb_2000]

We’ll never know if those worst case predictions would have happened or not, it’s possible the lockdowns saved a million lives, it’s also possible they saved a thousand lives and caused a thousand and one suicides.

That’s the danger of ignoring collateral damage, a 3 month lockdown “because it’ll save lives” is an amazing idea… if you ignore the fact millions of people will starve to death.

If the lockdowns cause more collateral damage, was the lockdown a failure or was there a failure to take measures to limit the collateral damage?

 

[LittleBuford]

Visiting a theme park is a riskier activity, but at this point in time is avoiding them just delaying the inevitable?

But that's exactly what we're being asked to do! At this point, it is basically inevitable that we will all get it; the important thing is to slow the spread as much as possible. Anyone, vaccinated or not, visiting crowded entertainment venues at present is doing so knowing that they are likely to get and spread the virus.

 

[Chomama]

Just to circle back to the Ontario, Canada data, here is the latest chart showing the seven day average daily case rate by vaccination status. Their data says that 78% of the population is fully vaccinated and 83% are at least partially vaccinated. Prior to the latest measures there were already indoor mask requirements as well. I shall wait for the condescending reply that tells me that I don't understand anything and that if we just all did the "right" thing, COVID would no longer be an issue.
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Zero Covid was never going to happen. It’s disappointing but still true. We need to be honest about the changing state of the virus. It’s not delta anymore and omicron is taking over. I firmly stand on the side of everyone should be vaccinated and boosted. There is no excuse not to be and I actually find it morally reprehensible. That said, Covid is changing and we need to be realistic about how to move forward. Most people are going to get it now. Thankfully much less serious now and most will be fine. If you aren’t fine because you didn’t vaccinate I feel sad for you (not YOU, but any person, I know YOU are vaxxed) but I also can’t spend anymore energy trying to change it. Those who aren’t vaccinated aren’t going to be - in the US anyway. We need to find honest and manageable ways forward. It evolved. It escapes vaccines. The vaccines do currently protect against severe illness. To me it’s even more of an argument to get vaccinated at this point. It is so contagious but it is going to be very difficult to avoid contracting Covid. If you do not want the risk of serious side effects you need to go get vaccinated immediately

 

[Club Cooloholic]

These stories are disgusting. I'm not referring to the underlying "news," I'm talking about the way the media exploits these deaths because the deceased disagreed with vaccine mandates or didn't want to be vaccinated. They are reported with the "he/she got what they deserved" tone. It's like ESPN (to make this more Disney related) on their bottom line scroll pointing out that Kirk Cousins wasn't vaccinated when he tested positive while they don't point out the dozens of other athletes that tested positive who were vaccinated (including a huge percentage of the NHL and NBA).

How many stories do we see with the headline, "Vaccine Advocate Dies of COVID?" I haven't seen any and it isn't because there are no fully vaccinated and boosted people who advocated for vaccination and/or mandates that have died from COVID.

We would have less stories if the unvaccinated people in them got vaccinated. No death, no story. These people certainly were not shy about trumpeting their views and trying to influence others, should the fact they succumbed to the very thing they said not to worry about be swept under a rug?

 

[LittleBuford]

Probably stems from how we’re taught about illness, we’re taught from a very young age that vaccines teach our immune system how to fight a virus, once programmed our memory cells don’t forget, (we’re also taught that prior infection similarly teaches our immune system how to fight a virus which probably explains much of the natural immunity argument… but that’s another story), so we equate that to “why do I need a booster if my body already knows how to fight it?”

If the booster was a new design, specifically for say Delta or Omicron; I think more people would get it but since it’s the same shot we’ve already got it feels redundant. Like installing the same antivirus program on your computer twice, that makes no sense, but installing an updated antivirus program makes a ton of sense.

I've long since given up on trying to base my pandemic decisions on what I used to know or how things used to be. COVID has thrown out the playbook. Better to act in accordance with the current (and unfolding) science rather than invoke precedents that may no longer be relevant.

 

[marymarypoppins]

I can’t speak for Mary but I had similar thoughts before my booster, for me it was simply Covid burnout. My hesitancy had nothing to do with the time involved, effort involved, or the vaccines effectiveness… I’m just tired.

The fact tens of millions of fully vaccinated people haven’t bothered with the boosters leads me to believe there’s a lot of people who feel the same.

Delta was enough to push me to get my booster and Omicron is likely pushing a lot of people to get theirs, but just like the turnout every year for the flu shot there’ll likely be a huge percentage of the population who won’t get Covid boosters either.

I honestly don’t understand this. If the choice is between minimising the chances of a severe infection and giving into a sense of burnout, why on earth would anyone choose the latter?

Pretty much what Vegas Fan is similar to my current thoughts on it. Also I had it twice and I am surrounded by non vaccinated people who aren't even getting sick much less dying. I did my duty to protect others and well know we know the vaccinated can spread it as well as contracting the virus. It is just exhausting and honestly I am tried of being poked.

 

[marymarypoppins]

Zero Covid was never going to happen. It’s disappointing but still true. We need to be honest about the changing state of the virus. It’s not delta anymore and omicron is taking over. I firmly stand on the side of everyone should be vaccinated and boosted. There is no excuse not to be and I actually find it morally reprehensible. That said, Covid is changing and we need to be realistic about how to move forward. Most people are going to get it now. Thankfully much less serious now and most will be fine. If you aren’t fine because you didn’t vaccinate I feel sad for you (not YOU, but any person, I know YOU are vaxxed) but I also can’t spend anymore energy trying to change it. Those who aren’t vaccinated aren’t going to be - in the US anyway. We need to find honest and manageable ways forward. It evolved. It escapes vaccines. The vaccines do currently protect against severe illness. To me it’s even more of an argument to get vaccinated at this point. It is so contagious but it is going to be very difficult to avoid contracting Covid. If you do not want the risk of serious side effects you need to go get vaccinated immediately

Why is that? It is obvious now that the vaccinated can also spread the disease so what other reasons would you have such strong words for those who choose not to vaccinate?

 

[LittleBuford]

Also I had it twice and I am surrounded by non vaccinated people who aren't even getting sick much less dying.

Until my dad nearly died, I too only knew people who had had mild cases. It's just not worth taking the risk when you we all have access to a safe, free, and easily available way of protecting ourselves.

 

[danlb_2000]

Pretty much what Vegas Fan is similar to my current thoughts on it. Also I had it twice and I am surrounded by non vaccinated people who aren't even getting sick much less dying. I did my duty to protect others and well know we know the vaccinated can spread it as well as contracting the virus. It is just exhausting and honestly I am tried of being poked.

We have always known that the vaccinated can contract and spread the virus, they just do it at a lower rate then unvaccinated.

 

[Chomama]

Why is that? It is obvious now that the vaccinated can also spread the disease so what other reasons would you have such strong words for those who choose not to vaccinate?

Because an unvaccinated person is 15 times more likely to die from Covid. There is almost no chance everyone isn’t going to be infected so, if you want to get thru it easily, because you ARE going to get it, it makes zero sense not to minimize the odds of getting seriously ill

 

[Incomudro]

It worked. You're still alive.

Very likely would still be alive without the shots too.

 

[Chomama]

Because an unvaccinated person is 15 times more likely to die from Covid. There is almost no chance everyone isn’t going to be infected so, if you want to get thru it easily, because you ARE going to get it, it makes zero sense not to minimize the odds of getting seriously ill

I didn’t see the bolded part. After two years of this I am very disappointed in people that are unwilling to put the health of other people above their own freedom. We have known for two years that the people who are dying from this disease are mostly extremely high risk and the elderly. We have chosen as a society to ignore those people. Putting the needs of the community above one’s individual freedoms is part of living in community with one another.

 

[mmascari]

Probably stems from how we’re taught about illness, we’re taught from a very young age that vaccines teach our immune system how to fight a virus, once programmed our memory cells don’t forget, (we’re also taught that prior infection similarly teaches our immune system how to fight a virus which probably explains much of the natural immunity argument… but that’s another story), so we equate that to “why do I need a booster if my body already knows how to fight it?”

If the booster was a new design, specifically for say Delta or Omicron; I think more people would get it but since it’s the same shot we’ve already got it feels redundant. Like installing the same antivirus program on your computer twice, that makes no sense, but installing an updated antivirus program makes a ton of sense.

I don't know about you, but I've had to go to more than one class to learn stuff for lots of complicated things. Think of each vaccine dose as a class in a larger course and not the entire course all at once.

How many articles do people need to read to learn the "best" way to get on the most rides at Magic Kingdom? I'll bet most people need to read more than one. Most probably even need to read the same articles more than once to get all the meaning out of them.

Teaching your body how to fend off a virus sounds at least as hard as learning how to get the most out of Fast Pass Lightning Lane. Look at that, it mutated to a different variant and needed new directions.

 

[marymarypoppins]

I didn’t see the bolded part. After two years of this I am very disappointed in people that are unwilling to put the health of other people above their own freedom. We have known for two years that the people who are dying from this disease are mostly extremely high risk and the elderly. We have chosen as a society to ignore those people. Putting the needs of the community above one’s individual freedoms is part of living in community with one another.

Not to argue just not getting how this is the unvaccinated problem? I feel the unmask would be more a of cause of this than those who choose not to protect themselves with the vaccine.

 

[Incomudro]

Then what is the concern about getting a fourth dose, assuming that it eventually is needed?

Not speaking directly for the poster in question, but rather in generality - there is a certain amount of fatigue that various people will encounter.
Everyone has their limits.
Some people are just going to be done with it.
Some after two shots.
Some after three.
Some with no shots, and some will never be done.
This will also vary with the severity of the virus - with Omicron being a relatively easy strain to handle, many more people have reached their level of done.
Should a more deadly strain arise, the opposite effect would take place.

 

[DisneyCane]

I didn’t see the bolded part. After two years of this I am very disappointed in people that are unwilling to put the health of other people above their own freedom. We have known for two years that the people who are dying from this disease are mostly extremely high risk and the elderly. We have chosen as a society to ignore those people. Putting the needs of the community above one’s individual freedoms is part of living in community with one another.

No, it isn't. At least not in a truly free society.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

In raw numbers it's probably about the same. Percentage wise, anti-vaxxer.

I'm not sure how you think that a similar number of vaccinated people have died from COVID-19 as anti-vaxxers when the number of deaths in vaccinated people is much lower.

Department of Health

The Department of Health provides programs and services that benefit the health, safety, and well-being of all Pennsylvanians.

www.health.pa.gov

Using the numbers from PA as an example, COVID-19 deaths among fully vaccinated people accounted for just 25% of the COVID-19 deaths in August and 29% in September. In raw numbers, that's 1,802 unvaxxed deaths vs. 685 vaxxed deaths for the 2 months combined. I didn't see this broken down by age group, but it is likely that the elderly account for the largest number of vaccinated deaths.

Texas also saw a wide gap and actually broke the deaths down by age group showing that the majority of deaths in vaccinated people were in people 75 or older (from 1/15/21 - 10/1/21). Across all age groups 18 and older during that time, unvaxxed deaths outnumber vaccinated deaths 24,414 to 2,205 (conservatively assuming that the "<10" for the 18-29 age group is 9) . Among the vaccinated, people 75 and older account for 56.37% of total vaccinated deaths, but among the unvaccinated, they account for 31.99% of deaths (although that age group still has the highest death rate per 100,00). (You can find the breakdowns on page 7 of the file linked below).

https://dshs.texas.gov/immunize/covid19/data/Cases-and-Deaths-by-Vaccination-Status-11082021.pdf

To add to the point of articles like the one you criticized, the vocal anti-vaxxers aren't just impacting themselves. They spread false information and influence others to follow their lead and avoid vaccines themselves. So reporting that a vocal anti-vaxxer died from the virus lets people know that they shouldn't have followed that person's advice. How many minds will be changed as a result is unknown, but anything greater than 0 is a positive. Without news stories about them, others would likely never find out about it and have the opportunity to see real-life consequences that come to those who preach or follow that garbage.