Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[mikejs78]

You act as though infections in vaccinated people are rare or don't occur at all. They aren't and they do. Ontario dropped their healthcare worker vaccine mandate today not because people weren't complying but because they were seeing the same amount of spread in vaccinated people as they were unvaccinated. To suggest that the cases would screech to a grinding halt if every human being on earth were vaccinated is pure fantasy.

Why is it okay for a vaccinated person to spread COVID and kill someone, because they tried harder?

Of course infections in vaccinated people happen. But they are far more rare than in unvaccinated people. That's a fact.

That is not why Ontario dropped their mandate. They were concerned about losing too many people and made a value judgement. I think it's the wrong one, but it wasn't based on some made up rate of vaccinated vs unvaccinated. That's been proven.

And the point is that if enough people are vaccinated, community spread gets to extremely manageable levels. There's a multiplier effect. It's not just about one person's ability to spread covid or not.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Of course infections in vaccinated people happen. But they are far more rare than in unvaccinated people. That's a fact.

That is not why Ontario dropped their mandate. They were concerned about losing too many people and made a value judgement. I think it's the wrong one, but it wasn't based on some made up rate of vaccinated vs unvaccinated. That's been proven.

And the point is that if enough people are vaccinated, community spread gets to extremely manageable levels. There's a multiplier effect. It's not just about one person's ability to spread covid or not.

Sure, more rare. We're getting warmer. The narrative here is that if you are vaccinated you are in some golden bubble of immunity and that if you aren't you are infected with SARS-CoV-2 100% of the time infecting every living being that comes within 6 feet of you. The reality is both are contributing to the spread and yes one more than the other; but the spread would still occur.

A big problem is waning immunity which is why Israel saw and why they had a massive Delta surge despite being the most vaccinated country on Earth. Maryland reported 30-40% of their hospitalizations as occurring in fully vaccinated people.

In fact, there are probably people here who were "fully vaccinated" in January that are as good as unvaccinated at this point and sitting here calling the unvaccinated selfish.

 

[lazyboy97o]

While they don't list the rate of infection, surely if it were 'rare' it would not be a significant factor not require it for employment and subsequently treating patients. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Israel saw more cases than ever during the Delta surge with nearly the entire country vaccinated; 93% of those cases were 'breakthrough.'

They aren't rare. Vaccines aren't a magic bullet to stop the spread; they are a critical personal protection and people are stupid to not utilize that tool but they sure as heck aren't the drive of the pandemic. The vaccine evading variant is.

This has been debunked repeatedly.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Sure, more rare. We're getting warmer. The narrative here is that if you are vaccinated you are in some golden bubble of immunity and that if you aren't you are infected with SARS-CoV-2 100% of the time infecting every living being that comes within 6 feet of you. The reality is both are contributing to the spread and yes one more than the other; but the spread would still occur.

A big problem is waning immunity which is why Israel saw and why they had a massive Delta surge despite being the most vaccinated country on Earth. Maryland reported 30-40% of their hospitalizations as occurring in fully vaccinated people.

In fact, there are probably people here who were "fully vaccinated" in January that are as good as unvaccinated at this point and sitting here calling the unvaccinated selfish.

The last person to contract and die of smallpox was vaccinated. Some of the people who contracted measles in the Disneyland Measles Outbreak were vaccinated. The only people pushing this narrative of “bubbles of immunity” are people spreading bunk. No vaccine is perfect but vaccination absolutely does reduce spread.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

The last person to contract and die of smallpox was vaccinated. Some of the people who contracted measles in the Disneyland Measles Outbreak were vaccinated. The only people pushing this narrative of “bubbles of immunity” are people spreading bunk. No vaccine is perfect but vaccination absolutely does reduce spread.

Are you comparing SARS-CoV-2 to smallpox?

Sure it reduces the spread. No dispute there.

But the notion that an unvaccinated person is driving drunk and a vaccinated person is driving sober is complete and utter bunk. One is drunk, and one is tipsy; neither are in the clear.

And then you have the moral issue of giving a pass to someone who was vaccinated 10 or 11 months ago whose immunity has fully waned and then ostracize the person infected 3 months ago with robust immunity; at least in the interim.

 

[mikejs78]

What do you think the breakthrough infection rate is?

At the peak of Delta, the national case rate among the unvaccinated was 736 per 100k. For the vaccinated it was 121 per 100k. So about 1/6 the rate of unvaccinated.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

At the peak of Delta, the national case rate among the unvaccinated was 736 per 100k. For the vaccinated it was 121 per 100k. So about 1/6 the rate of unvaccinated.

False. We don't actually know this because we stopped tracking breakthrough infections. These are US government estimates that completely inconsistent with nations who do track breakthrough infections in the very vaccines we use (or at least one).

 

[mikejs78]

Are you comparing SARS-CoV-2 to smallpox?

Sure it reduces the spread. No dispute there.

But the notion that an unvaccinated person is driving drunk and a vaccinated person is driving sober is complete and utter bunk. One is drunk, and one is tipsy; neither are in the clear.

And then you have the moral issue of giving a pass to someone who was vaccinated 10 or 11 months ago whose immunity has fully waned and then ostracize the person infected 3 months ago with robust immunity; at least in the interim.

Wrong. Because it's the unvaccinated driving the spread. The spread doesn't decrease linearly, it decreases closer to exponentially the more people are vaccinated because R0 will dip below 1 and approach 0.

 

[mikejs78]

False. We don't actually know this because we stopped tracking breakthrough infections. These are US government estimates that completely inconsistent with nations who do track breakthrough infections in the very vaccines we use (or at least one).

Not inconsistent at all.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Wrong. Because it's the unvaccinated driving the spread. The spread doesn't decrease linearly, it decreases closer to exponentially the more people are vaccinated because R0 will dip below 1 and approach 0.

No. The unvaccinated are driving more of the spread. Not all of it. You're honestly sitting here suggesting that every vaccinated person that has a breakthrough infection (which seems to be virtually everyone at this point) was infected by an unvaccinated person?

 

[Tom P.]

Today in summary:

View attachment 597883

Bonus points for choosing The Muppet Christmas Carol which is, IMHO, the best filmed adaptation of A Christmas Carol ever made.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Bonus points for choosing The Muppet Christmas Carol which is, IMHO, the best filmed adaptation of A Christmas Carol ever made.

I specifically searched.

 

[mikejs78]

No. The unvaccinated are driving more of the spread. Not all of it. You're honestly sitting here suggesting that every vaccinated person that has a breakthrough infection (which seems to be virtually everyone at this point) was infected by an unvaccinated person?

Seems to be virtually everyone? I know one person who had a breakthrough.

Of course some vaccinated spread it to others. But you don't seem to grasp this basic fact of virology - that the vaccinated are less likely to get it, less likely to spread it, and therefore the exponential multiplier of the spread will be far less.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Seems to be virtually everyone? I know one person who had a breakthrough.

Of course some vaccinated spread it to others. But you don't seem to grasp this basic fact of virology - that the vaccinated are less likely to get it, less likely to spread it, and therefore the exponential multiplier of the spread will be far less.

Not sure where you live but where I am, it's the running joke around here. "Why get vaccinated, then you'd have COVID and a sore arm."

No, I grasp it just fine. Another basic fact of virology, when infected with a virus, your immune system builds up antibodies to those viral particles.

Or are we denying natural immunity here as well, I can't keep up.

 

[mikejs78]

Another basic fact of virology, when infected with a virus, your immune system builds up antibodies to those viral particles.

Or are we denying natural immunity here as well, I can't keep up.

I can't even.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

I can't even.

I take that as a yes?

 

[mikejs78]

I take that as a yes?

I've literally posted about natural immunity at least three times today, some in direct reply to you.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

I've literally posted about natural immunity at least three times today, some in direct reply to you.

Are you sure you're talking about me? I haven't responded to this thread in days until the last hour.

 

[sullyinMT]

https://globalnews.ca/news/8347039/ontario-covid-mandatory-vaccine-hospital-workers/amp/
An actual news story citing the actual reasons for not enforcing the mandate from the government. Some of the good reasons include hospitals doing it without governmental fiat, among others. Where I disagree is in the assessment that too many workers would be lost, but we all know Canada is wiping the floor in general with regards to vaccine rates, so they’re likely in a better spot to absorb the next wave. Especially if they follow FDA/CDC suit and start vaccinating 5-11 year olds by year’s end.

I won’t even bother with the rest of the repeatedly debunked anti-vax drivel. Enough is enough. We CAN get to a point where people can move on and live normally, if the holdouts would shut up and roll up their sleeves.

We’re still cancelling elective surgeries not urgent enough to be life threatening (yet) so that society can cow-tow to “choice and freedom.” Yay.

 

[mf1972]

we’re returning home tomorrow from wdw, & i haven’t followed this thread in a few weeks so some of my comments might’ve been said earlier, so my apologies.
i would say on any given day in the parks, 90% of guests walked around all day without wearing masks. from what i’ve seen, guests were 100% compliant wearing masks while standing on line, on rides, etc
cm’s were on top of guests reminding them to mask up. they did a good job of it. it took us awhile seeing & being around so many people without masks. it almost felt like being in another world.
overall we had a good time & hope the covid situation improves before we decide to come back again.