Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[The Mom]

They only people that have been around without masks is each other. Because of his health they pretty much still live as close to being locked down as possible. The only places they go together is doctor appointments, if he wants to get out with her while she runs errands he stays in car, double masks in public, majority of trips are to curbside pickup with masks etc. Only place he has less control is work because they don't require customers to wear masks or anything. Hell they already changed their wills to include no one unvaccinated would be allowed at their funerals.

Anything that concerns your funeral should not be in your will, as it is not usually read until after the funeral. They should have predirectives as to what they want (my mother even specified the dress, flowers, hymns, reading etc and especially, disposition of her remains.) There are packets you can order and fill out, and they should be given to someone you trust who also has some legal standing, such as a child, your executor, etc.

 

[Patcheslee]

I get what you are saying but at home they are NOT casual contacts. Why are you ignoring that and making it sound like they aren't near each other at home?

You keep straying to make it sound like vaccines suck but then they don't. I'm seriously lost at your entire point now sorry. And if they go anywhere together at all, they both can be exposed. Fact is transmission from vaccinated to vaccinated is rare. Not impossible but rare.

I'm trying to figure out how either was infected in the first place if they followed all precautions THEY had control of themselves. What left is the outside people who's vaccine status is unknown and majority around here do not wear masks in public. It sucks that people can't bother to vaccinate to lower the probability of vaccinated being infected in the first place. People suck.

 

[lewisc]

Don Lemon does whatever Don Lemon does; same with Chris Cuomo, which is why their programs continually overlap for the first 6 to 10 minutes much to the chagrin of master control and floor producers, and quite frankly I can't stand Brian Stelter. Anyway all of their comments and actions are out of my friends shifts anyway...

But my personal connections aside, I am looking at it objectively rather than personally. That chyron is again, factually true. ivermectin is a de-wormer, and furthermore it's been unproven to treat covid-19. All it is, frankly an eye-catching chyron, and most people know ivermectin from the media as its use for Horse de-wormer unless you want them to say "taking a drug for intestinal strongyloidiasis and onchocerciasis that's unproven for COVID-19"

Do the hosts decide what goes on the chroyn

 

[Lilofan]

Welcome HOME International Guests!!! I hope you have a Disney trip planned in your near future!

The loss of International guests was a huge impact to International Drive in Orlando. This is a welcome relief and will jump start the I - drive tourist corridor, and improve attendance WDW, Universal and Sea World.

 

[The Mom]

Don Lemon does whatever Don Lemon does; same with Chris Cuomo, which is why their programs continually overlap for the first 6 to 10 minutes much to the chagrin of master control and floor producers, and quite frankly I can't stand Brian Stelter. Anyway all of their comments and actions are out of my friends shifts anyway...

But my personal connections aside, I am looking at it objectively rather than personally. That chyron is again, factually true. ivermectin is a de-wormer, and furthermore it's been unproven to treat covid-19. All it is, frankly an eye-catching chyron, and most people know ivermectin from the media as its use for Horse de-wormer unless you want them to say "taking a drug for intestinal strongyloidiasis and onchocerciasis that's unproven for COVID-19"

The media could have said that it is an anti-parasitic that is used in both humans and animals, but the animal medication is not safe for humans. And has also not been proven to be effective against Covid. Instead the media chose to go with the horse dewormer descriptor, and purposely neglected to say that it was also used, in a different formulation, for treating humans - not just animals.

 

[Lilofan]

The media could have said that it is an anti-parasitic that is used in both humans and animals, but the animal medication is not safe for humans. And has also not been proven to be effective against Covid. Instead the media chose to go with the horse dewormer descriptor, and purposely neglected to say that it was also used, in a different formulation, for treating humans - not just animals.

Joe Rogan who I don't care for even pressed Dr Sanjay Gupta on this and Dr Gupta even admitted CNN went down this road.

 

[Heppenheimer]

By now, we shouldn't even be talking about ivermectin anymore unless there was an outbreak of Strongyloidiasis, Ascariasis, scabies or similar infestations at Disney World.

I don't care how the media refers to the medication, the best available evidence shows that it's useless against COVID. Why are people still attaching so much misguided hope to ivermectin? With molnupiravir coming right around the corner, I just don't understand why so many have doubled and tripled down on it... while simultaneously refusing vaccination.

 

[The Mom]

I'm trying to figure out how either was infected in the first place if they followed all precautions THEY had control of themselves. What left is the outside people who's vaccine status is unknown and majority around here do not wear masks in public. It sucks that people can't bother to vaccinate to lower the probability of vaccinated being infected in the first place. People suck.

The vaccinations, masks, etc do not guarantee that you will not get infected - they only lessen your chances of infection, and if infected , the vaccine lessens your chances of dying.

 

[MisterPenguin]

COVID seems to have a 2 month cycle to it's spikes. Here is a good article discussing this. There are a lot of theories as why the cycle happens but no one has been able to point to one specific thing that causes it, it's probably a combination of many factors.

Trying to Make Sense of COVID's Mysterious 2-Month Cycle

COVID-19 is once again in retreat. The reasons remain somewhat unclear, and there is no guarantee that the decline in caseloads will continue. But the turnaround is now large enough — and been going on long enough — to deserve attention. Sign up for The Morning newsletter from the New York Times...

news.yahoo.com

I first thought this article was saying there's a wave every two months. But then I realized that they're saying a 'wave' generally lasts 2 months.

That's very different. Deleted my screed.

 

[October82]

No one said the cycle is magic. But it’s there. The question/discussion was about masks being responsible for the huge decline in cases. They are not. Also, around mitigation, you really believe there were high levels of mitigation in Florida that caused the cases to fall off a cliff? Ok…

You're misunderstanding my comment. Mitigation refers to all of the measures that people take to avoid getting Covid. The "cyclical" behavior is easy to understand - it is caused by differences in R_t/e and R_0. Changes in R_t result from the actions that people take to mitigate spread. So yes, when you see "cycles", what you are really seeing is the behavior of people. Covid doesn't stop reproducing less effectively on its own, and suggesting that you should react to the cyclical behavior rather than the effectiveness of the mitigation measures themselves has the direction of causality exactly backwards. It's a textbook example of a Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.

 

[October82]

Same can be said for othe scientific specialties.

No - and this is an important point that people really misunderstand about science and scientists. Being an expert in one part of science doesn't make you an expert in an unrelated field. @Heppenheimer is pointing out that Gupta has relevant expertise for the job that he's doing. Doesn't mean you should trust him to read a quantum mechanics paper and interpret it for you. Just like you shouldn't trust a quantum physicist to read and interpret a biochemistry paper for you.

 

[October82]

COVID seems to have a 2 month cycle to it's spikes. Here is a good article discussing this. There are a lot of theories as why the cycle happens but no one has been able to point to one specific thing that causes it, it's probably a combination of many factors.

Trying to Make Sense of COVID's Mysterious 2-Month Cycle

COVID-19 is once again in retreat. The reasons remain somewhat unclear, and there is no guarantee that the decline in caseloads will continue. But the turnaround is now large enough — and been going on long enough — to deserve attention. Sign up for The Morning newsletter from the New York Times...

news.yahoo.com

You can see the "spiking" behavior and estimate the duration in SEIR models. This article makes it seem like there's something more mysterious than there is. I don't put any stock in the idea that there's a 2 month "cycle". @MisterPenguin has the distinction exactly right.

The duration of spikes is a strong function of the length of time that people are infectious.

 

[lewisc]

The media could have said that it is an anti-parasitic that is used in both humans and animals, but the animal medication is not safe for humans. And has also not been proven to be effective against Covid. Instead the media chose to go with the horse dewormer descriptor, and purposely neglected to say that it was also used, in a different formulation, for treating humans - not just animals.

but it's not approved for treating humans for covid. Speaking in "longhand" and describing how it can be used by animals and humans is, to an extent, irrelevant. Since it's not approved, or effective, as Covid treatment many (most?) of the people taking it for Covid are getting the animal version.

In this case leaving out some details doesn't change the overall conclusion

 

[danlb_2000]

By now, we shouldn't even be talking about ivermectin anymore unless there was an outbreak of Strongyloidiasis, Ascariasis, scabies or similar infestations at Disney World.

I don't care how the media refers to the medication, the best available evidence shows that it's useless against COVID. Why are people still attaching so much misguided hope to ivermectin? With molnupiravir coming right around the corner, I just don't understand why so many have doubled and tripled down on it... while simultaneously refusing vaccination.

Where do we stand on Ivermectin studies? Last time I dug into this topic, there weren't enough large, high-quality, controlled studies to be sure Ivermectin had no value.

Here is an article from September that looked at the available studies.

Ivermectin: Cochrane’s most talked about review so far, ever. Why?

Ivermectin: Cochrane’s most talked about review so far, ever. Why?

www.cochrane.org

"Our main finding is that there is no evidence to support the use of ivermectin either for preventing or treating COVID-19. Because of a lack of good-quality evidence, we do not know whether ivermectin administered in hospital or in an outpatient setting leads to more or fewer deaths after one month when compared with a placebo or usual care."

"Further, we do not know whether it improves or worsens patients’ condition, increases or decreases unwanted side effects, or leads to more or fewer negative COVID-19 tests 7 days after treatment. Likewise, we do not know whether ivermectin prevents COVID-19 infection or reduces the number of deaths after high-risk exposure to the SARS-CoV-2 virus."

 

[The Mom]

but it's not approved for treating humans for covid. Speaking in "longhand" and describing how it can be used by animals and humans is, to an extent, irrelevant. Since it's not approved, or effective, as Covid treatment many (most?) of the people taking it for Covid are getting the animal version.

In this case leaving out some details doesn't change the overall conclusion

But not speaking in "longhand" gives the impression that the medication is only for animals, not humans.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Bottom line; Dr. Gupta admitted (very clearly) CNN lies!

 

[lewisc]

But not speaking in "longhand" gives the impression that the medication is only for animals, not humans.

Since doctors aren't supposed to be prescribing the drug, for covid, the presumption that humans taking this for covid are generally taking the animal version has some logic.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

By now, we shouldn't even be talking about ivermectin anymore unless there was an outbreak of Strongyloidiasis, Ascariasis, scabies or similar infestations at Disney World.

I don't care how the media refers to the medication, the best available evidence shows that it's useless against COVID. Why are people still attaching so much misguided hope to ivermectin? With molnupiravir coming right around the corner, I just don't understand why so many have doubled and tripled down on it... while simultaneously refusing vaccination.

And apparently now aspirin is the new false idol of the "everything but tested science" camp. This is especially odd since it was just recently that the recommendation changed to say that patients with heart disease shouldn't take aspirin - yet the common refrain among the COVID deniers was always "underlying health conditions" such as heart disease (aka, the exact people who would have been taking aspirin daily).

 

[mmascari]

"Our main finding is that there is no evidence to support the use of ivermectin either for preventing or treating COVID-19. Because of a lack of good-quality evidence, we do not know whether ivermectin administered in hospital or in an outpatient setting leads to more or fewer deaths after one month when compared with a placebo or usual care."

"Further, we do not know whether it improves or worsens patients’ condition, increases or decreases unwanted side effects, or leads to more or fewer negative COVID-19 tests 7 days after treatment. Likewise, we do not know whether ivermectin prevents COVID-19 infection or reduces the number of deaths after high-risk exposure to the SARS-CoV-2 virus."

That's not exactly an encouraging statement for knowing anything at all. You can replace ivermectin with pixie dust and it's just as valid.

"Our main finding is that there is no evidence to support the use of [pixie dust] either for preventing or treating COVID-19. Because of a lack of good-quality evidence, we do not know whether [pixie dust] administered in hospital or in an outpatient setting leads to more or fewer deaths after one month when compared with a placebo or usual care."

"Further, we do not know whether it improves or worsens patients’ condition, increases or decreases unwanted side effects, or leads to more or fewer negative COVID-19 tests 7 days after treatment. Likewise, we do not know whether [pixie dust] prevents COVID-19 infection or reduces the number of deaths after high-risk exposure to the SARS-CoV-2 virus."

Or, perhaps Tequila, Rum, Chocolate, or Mickey Bars, and it's still just as valid. Where's the study showing if Mickey Bars and Pixie Dust are a good preventative? That would at least fit the story that COVID transmission is low or non existent at WDW.

It would be delicious too.

 

[Heppenheimer]

And apparently now aspirin is the new false idol of the "everything but tested science" camp. This is especially odd since it was just recently that the recommendation changed to say that patients with heart disease shouldn't take aspirin - yet the common refrain among the COVID deniers was always "underlying health conditions" such as heart disease (aka, the exact people who would have been taking aspirin daily).

Wait... what? Has someone started claiming that aspirin treats COVID?