Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[ArmoredRodent]

You can’t walk into a Jewish Temple and start yelling anti-semitic stuff.

I kind of hesitate to post this decision from yesterday, but: No, you have to yell that kind of stuff outside the Temple on a public sidewalk:

Gerber v. Herskovitz, decided yesterday by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit,

https://www.opn.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/21a0219p-06.pdf

And, sadly, it's a correct decision. Remember the loathsome, wacko church that used anti-gay protests at American soldiers' funerals? They, too, have the right to protest across the street. Snyder v. Phelps, 562 U.S. 443 (2011).
"Speech is powerful. It can stir people to action, move them to tears of both joy and sorrow, and—as it did here—inflict great pain. On the facts before us, we cannot react to that pain by punishing the speaker. As a Nation we have chosen a different course—to protect even hurtful speech on public issues to ensure that we do not stifle public debate. That choice requires that we shield Westboro [Church] from tort liability for its picketing in this case."
Snyder, 562 U.S. at 460–61.

Keep that in mind when people say that "hate speech," whatever that means, is not protected by the First Amendment. There are a few small categories of speech that is exempted by the First Amendment, but disliking what is said is not grounds to government telling people what they can hear or say. But, and this is relevant to TWDC, as @GoofGoof pointed out, the First Amendment only prohibits GOVERNMENT limits on speech; it does not provide the right to speak on private property (except for a few situations, generally where the property owner has established a zone where speech can be free).

 

[GoofGoof]

I kind of hesitate to post this decision from yesterday, but: No, you have to yell that kind of stuff outside the Temple on a public sidewalk:

Gerber v. Herskovitz, decided yesterday by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit,

https://www.opn.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/21a0219p-06.pdf

And, sadly, it's a correct decision. Remember the loathsome, wacko church that used anti-gay protests at American soldiers' funerals? They, too, have the right to protest across the street. Snyder v. Phelps, 562 U.S. 443 (2011).
"Speech is powerful. It can stir people to action, move them to tears of both joy and sorrow, and—as it did here—inflict great pain. On the facts before us, we cannot react to that pain by punishing the speaker. As a Nation we have chosen a different course—to protect even hurtful speech on public issues to ensure that we do not stifle public debate. That choice requires that we shield Westboro [Church] from tort liability for its picketing in this case."
Snyder, 562 U.S. at 460–61.

Keep that in mind when people say that "hate speech," whatever that means, is not protected by the First Amendment. There are a few small categories of speech that is exempted by the First Amendment, but disliking what is said is not grounds to government telling people what they can hear or say. But, and this is relevant to TWDC, as @GoofGoof pointed out, the First Amendment only prohibits GOVERNMENT limits on speech; it does not provide the right to speak on private property (except for a few situations, generally where the property owner has established a zone where speech can be free).

Yes, outside in public is protected as much as that is offensive to the vast majority of people. The KKK can have a march down the street and say a lot of vile stuff and that’s protected too. However, a restaurant or a bar or a theme park or any private business can absolutely remove the same people for violating their policy on speech that isn’t tolerated by their rules. Disney even restricts what your t-shirt says. The same goes for an online forum like this. You have to follow the terms or you can be removed. That’s not a violation of Freedom of Speech.

 

[Kman]

If Canada's numbers hit the plateau, they can pull out the big gun- free Tim Horton's.

I'm not sure we have an equivalent institution in the US that would have the same effect. Maybe a raffle for free Disney tickets? ("Yeah, right, that will happen!", scornfully laughs a certain chrome-domed CEO...).

not all of us are big fans!

 

[BrianLo]

haven't checked...has Saskatchewan instituted a passport system?

I don't think so yet, and some of the territories.

Sask might also be pushed over the edge, they are also experiencing this wave.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Next in what is becoming a depressingly growing list of toxic concoctions that people are taking to prevent COVID-19, against all medical and scientific advice and even basic common sense: Betadine!

Betadine Is This Week’s Covid-19 ‘Cure’ Vying With Ivermectin

This week's WTH is people ingesting Betadine to prevent Covid. DON'T. Just get the vax, which we know works.

www.forbes.com

 

[JoeCamel]

Next in what is becoming a depressingly growing list of toxic concoctions that people are taking to prevent COVID-19, against all medical and scientific advice and even basic common sense: Betadine!

Betadine Is This Week’s Covid-19 ‘Cure’ Vying With Ivermectin

This week's WTH is people ingesting Betadine to prevent Covid. DON'T. Just get the vax, which we know works.

www.forbes.com

They should just get a bottle of iodine...

 

[EpcoTim]

Don't forget the not-homeless homeless sleeping in random houses with no electricity

I know it doesn’t fit your agenda and I’m guessing you’ve never dealt with severe poverty before seeing as your posting on a Disney website, but it is a real thing. 10’s of thousands of people across the U.S. live in abandoned homes, tent cities, etc., 13-14% of the country fall into the extreme poverty category and they also represent one of the largest bodies unvaccinated. According to the president almost half the country is poor or living in extreme poverty. Laugh at the poor all you want, that’s your right, but don’t deny their existence or their struggles.

Urban and rural areas suffer from this.

Chicago’s Vaccine Disparity Widens

An update on Chicago’s vaccination efforts

southsideweekly.com

Chicago reports 70% of adults have received 1 COVID-19 shot

CHICAGO (AP) — Chicago officials touted a “milestone” Monday, saying 70% of city residents over 18 have received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine, but vaccination rates continue to vary by neighborhood.

apnews.com

“Among several downtown zip codes, the vaccination rate neared 100%, according to city data. But it also showed only 31% of the residents in the largely-Black and low income South Side neighborhood of Englewood were fully vaccinated.“

Sure, some of them are people of color and some not and the majority of them are poor but that doesn’t mean they should be dismissed or ignored just because it doesn’t fit your message.

 

[correcaminos]

Next in what is becoming a depressingly growing list of toxic concoctions that people are taking to prevent COVID-19, against all medical and scientific advice and even basic common sense: Betadine!

Betadine Is This Week’s Covid-19 ‘Cure’ Vying With Ivermectin

This week's WTH is people ingesting Betadine to prevent Covid. DON'T. Just get the vax, which we know works.

www.forbes.com

 

[Kman]

I don't think so yet, and some of the territories.

Sask might also be pushed over the edge, they are also experiencing this wave.

Alberta and Saskatchewan are like our Florida and Texas (albeit not as bad). Leadership is pathetic. Here in Ontario, I am not impressed with our provincial government either. Always late to act as they try to appease their base.

 

[GoofGoof]

I know it doesn’t fit your agenda and I’m guessing you’ve never dealt with severe poverty before seeing as your posting on a Disney website, but it is a real thing. 10’s of thousands of people across the U.S. live in abandoned homes, tent cities, etc., 13-14% of the country fall into the extreme poverty category and they also represent one of the largest bodies unvaccinated. According to the president almost half the country is poor or living in extreme poverty. Laugh at the poor all you want, that’s your right, but don’t deny their existence or their struggles.

View attachment 587467

View attachment 587468

Urban and rural areas suffer from this.

Chicago’s Vaccine Disparity Widens

An update on Chicago’s vaccination efforts

southsideweekly.com

Chicago reports 70% of adults have received 1 COVID-19 shot

CHICAGO (AP) — Chicago officials touted a “milestone” Monday, saying 70% of city residents over 18 have received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine, but vaccination rates continue to vary by neighborhood.

apnews.com

“Among several downtown zip codes, the vaccination rate neared 100%, according to city data. But it also showed only 31% of the residents in the largely-Black and low income South Side neighborhood of Englewood were fully vaccinated.“

Sure, some of them are people of color and some not and the majority of them are poor but that doesn’t mean they should be dismissed or ignored just because it doesn’t fit your message.

Wouldn‘t most of the people who are working (even if they don’t make a lot of money) be covered under the OSHA rule? Not everyone who lives below the poverty level is on government assistance or homeless or living in a home but with no electricity. If the sincere goal is to help all of these people then the workplace mandates will go a long way for a lot of them.

 

[EpcoTim]

Wouldn‘t most of the people who are working (even if they don’t make a lot of money) be covered under the OSHA rule? Not everyone who lives below the poverty level is on government assistance or homeless or living in a home but with no electricity. If the sincere goal is to help all of these people then the workplace mandates will go a long way for a lot of them.

Some will be, I’m guessing a lot work in small businesses within the community though so the >100 rule may come into effect. Also when you consider towns like Detroit and Cleveland have unemployed levels above 25% along with large homeless populations it changes the viewpoint.

Detroit's unemployment rate has held steady at 25% since last fall, U-M survey shows

The city's jobless rate is down from nearly 48% in June 2020, but is still more than double what it was prior to the pandemic, the survey found.

www.freep.com

 

[DisneyFan32]

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[GoofGoof]

Some will be, I’m guessing a lot work in small businesses within the community though so the >100 rule may come into effect. Also when you consider towns like Detroit and Cleveland have unemployed levels above 25% along with large homeless populations it changes the viewpoint.

Detroit's unemployment rate has held steady at 25% since last fall, U-M survey shows

The city's jobless rate is down from nearly 48% in June 2020, but is still more than double what it was prior to the pandemic, the survey found.

www.freep.com

It doesn’t change my viewpoint. You are trying to dismiss a plan that addresses 100M adults or about 40% of the adult population by pointing out a small group that may not be covered by it. It’s the same argument the other guy tried to make on illegal immigrants or the people ranting about Congress being excluded. Just because the plan doesn’t cover 100% of Americans doesn’t mean it’s a bad plan. It’s not all or nothing.

Small businesses are not restricted from requiring vaccination. Many don’t have the resources to facilitate weekly testing but they can and should just mandate vaccination. Problem solved for those workers. Just because someone is unemployed doesn‘t mean they aren’t vaccinated either and anyone looking for a job is going to want to be vaccinated to have the most selection of jobs if they come open.

 

[danlb_2000]

Next in what is becoming a depressingly growing list of toxic concoctions that people are taking to prevent COVID-19, against all medical and scientific advice and even basic common sense: Betadine!

Betadine Is This Week’s Covid-19 ‘Cure’ Vying With Ivermectin

This week's WTH is people ingesting Betadine to prevent Covid. DON'T. Just get the vax, which we know works.

www.forbes.com

This just goes to show that for at least some people not taking the vaccine is really about politics and not about safety concerns.

 

[GoofGoof]

This just goes to show that for at least some people not taking the vaccine is really about politics and not about safety concerns.

100%. Maybe the FDA should just come out and tell people to take these drugs then the same people definitely won’t take them anymore

 

[disneygeek90]

I know it doesn’t fit your agenda and I’m guessing you’ve never dealt with severe poverty before seeing as your posting on a Disney website, but it is a real thing. 10’s of thousands of people across the U.S. live in abandoned homes, tent cities, etc., 13-14% of the country fall into the extreme poverty category and they also represent one of the largest bodies unvaccinated. According to the president almost half the country is poor or living in extreme poverty. Laugh at the poor all you want, that’s your right, but don’t deny their existence or their struggles.

View attachment 587467

View attachment 587468

Urban and rural areas suffer from this.

Chicago’s Vaccine Disparity Widens

An update on Chicago’s vaccination efforts

southsideweekly.com

Chicago reports 70% of adults have received 1 COVID-19 shot

CHICAGO (AP) — Chicago officials touted a “milestone” Monday, saying 70% of city residents over 18 have received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine, but vaccination rates continue to vary by neighborhood.

apnews.com

“Among several downtown zip codes, the vaccination rate neared 100%, according to city data. But it also showed only 31% of the residents in the largely-Black and low income South Side neighborhood of Englewood were fully vaccinated.“

Sure, some of them are people of color and some not and the majority of them are poor but that doesn’t mean they should be dismissed or ignored just because it doesn’t fit your message.

Yes, my friend. This is homelessness. Which you somehow beat around the bush and said that wasn’t what you meant when I actually said the word. Anyway I didn’t really want to start this conversation again, it was just too easy of a joke in jest to pass up.

What about those living in complete and total poverty? Those without jobs, cars, electricity?

 

[Virtual Toad]

Some will be, I’m guessing a lot work in small businesses within the community though so the >100 rule may come into effect. Also when you consider towns like Detroit and Cleveland have unemployed levels above 25% along with large homeless populations it changes the viewpoint.

Detroit's unemployment rate has held steady at 25% since last fall, U-M survey shows

The city's jobless rate is down from nearly 48% in June 2020, but is still more than double what it was prior to the pandemic, the survey found.

www.freep.com

All reasons why vaccine outreach, especially to traditionally underserved and economically challenged communities, including the homeless population, should be an important and ongoing priority at all levels of government. We have a social responsibility to help those less fortunate.

 

[disneygeek90]

All reasons why vaccine outreach, especially to traditionally underserved and economically challenged communities, including the homeless population, should be an important and ongoing priority at all levels of government. We have a social responsibility to help those less fortunate.

I don’t remember the specifics, but OC mayor Demings talks about getting vaccinations to underserved communities in almost every press conference.

 

[GoofGoof]

All reasons why vaccine outreach, especially to traditionally underserved and economically challenged communities, including the homeless population, should be an important and ongoing priority at all levels of government. We have a social responsibility to help those less fortunate.

Yep, walk and chew gum at the same time. Those things have been going on since January and in some places successfully. In other areas there’s a lot of work to do. That is a grass roots, local effort in communities.

 

[EpcoTim]

It doesn’t change my viewpoint. You are trying to dismiss a plan that addresses 100M adults or about 40% of the adult population by pointing out a small group that may not be covered by it. It’s the same argument the other guy tried to make on illegal immigrants or the people ranting about Congress being excluded. Just because the plan doesn’t cover 100% of Americans doesn’t mean it’s a bad plan. It’s not all or nothing.

Small businesses are not restricted from requiring vaccination. Many don’t have the resources to facilitate weekly testing but they can and should just mandate vaccination. Problem solved for those workers. Just because someone is unemployed doesn‘t mean they aren’t vaccinated either and anyone looking for a job is going to want to be vaccinated to have the most selection of jobs if they come open.

I never dismissed anything, I’m pointing out that the largest group (percentage) of unvaccinated right now are the poor. These people deserve to be vaccinated like everyone else and instead their existence is denied and they’re laughed at. Your agenda is to get as many people or all people vaccinated at whatever cost, “nudging” them as you say, why ignore the hardest hit and most marginalized communities? Communities that don’t even have adequate access to medical attention? They shouldn’t be left behind for any reason, but I will entertain any reason that you can give me.

I did like your comment about 6 people being homeless though.