Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[sullyinMT]

If it doesn't lead to herd immunity or significance prevent spread why should they have to? Because you think it's what's best for them? Even if it is what's best they have the right to make a bad decision.

In the time since this news broke, I’ve seen two CABG cases, a craniotomy, and a trauma diverted. But our county competitor is also full. So they’re headed to the other side of the state on helicopters. Of course, there are only 3 rotary blade transports, and Montana’s a big state. So maybe the triaged “lesser” cases will survive the 6+ hour ambulance ride.

The bad decision of being unvaccinated is a problem. This isn’t everyone wearing a mask and eating outdoors but spread still happening at a lower rate. This is being unvaccinated and acting like the virus was a hoax the whole time. And it’s killing people - even if they don’t all die of COVID.

 

[GoofGoof]

There will not be any lawsuit because Biden isn't do any such thing.

Biden literally said HE IS NOT FORCING MANDATES for the vaccine

He said he would pressure private business to do so, so what, all President's try to get big business to do what they want.

As a Republican for 35 years dont get your news on FOX, they literally take half statements without saying the other half. IN this case Biden says": we cannot force citizens to get vaccines and we will not ask that, but we will be pressuring big business to do the right thing by giving incentives ". ON FOX they dont say that first sentence or people disregard it.

Federal employees must comply so what. Businesses can legally require vaccinations an have for years, just like schools and any state can mandate all their employees be vaccinated. This has been law since the 70's.

If a company violates an OSHA requirement they are subject to fines in the tens of thousands of dollars per employee per offense. Not many will resist the pressure to comply if it directly impacts their bottom line that much.

 

[VelocityRaptor]

Look at the number of people vaccinated who are age 18-65, then consider how many of them are employed.

NBC gave a better understanding. 80 million is the amount of employed unvaccinated that this mandate will affect.

 

[Timmay]

I assume OSHA has the resources to deal with non compliance?

im not against mandates. I just think they should come from the states as they typically can do more and have more authority in all areas.

If someone files a complaint, maybe. But they certainly won’t be able to arbitrarily conduct audits and surveys. Much like CMS can’t conduct arbitrary hospital surveys to confirm the conditions of participation, it’s done through the complaint and reporting system. CMS even has to hire outside private agencies to conduct the required three-year surveys.

 

[Virtual Toad]

If it doesn't lead to herd immunity or significance prevent spread why should they have to? Because you think it's what's best for them? Even if it is what's best they have the right to make a bad decision.

Does the science really show that though? Or are we just saying, “It was less than promised so it does nothing to reduce the spread?” Delta threw a wrench into the efficacy rate — but that rate is still extremely good. Future versions of the vaccine will deal with variants as they occur. Over time herd immunity and reduced spread are still the goal.

 

[Andrew C]

If someone files a complaint, maybe. But they certainly won’t be able to arbitrarily conduct audits and surveys. Much like CMS can’t conduct arbitrary hospital surveys to confirm the conditions of participation, it’s done through the complaint and reporting system. CMS even has to hire outside private agencies to conduct the required three-year surveys.

Yeah. That’s kinda my point. Seems like a threat with no backbone.

 

[sullyinMT]

If someone files a complaint, maybe. But they certainly won’t be able to arbitrarily conduct audits and surveys. Much like CMS can’t conduct arbitrary hospital surveys to confirm the conditions of participation, it’s done through the complaint and reporting system. CMS even has to hire outside private agencies to conduct the required three-year surveys.

There ARE pretty good whistleblower rewards in cases of CMS fraud. Perhaps a similar situation for OSHA? If I felt unsafe at work, for any reason, I’d gladly call the authorities.

 

[GoofGoof]

NBC gave a better understanding. 80 million is the amount of employed unvaccinated that this mandate will affect.

Makes sense. The total number of adults not fully vaccinated is about 112M but not all are employed and some are employed by small businesses that are exempt.

 

[007mickey]

If a company violates an OSHA requirement they are subject to fines in the tens of thousands of dollars per employee per offense. Not many will resist the pressure to comply if it directly impacts their bottom line that much.

We have to understand that there will be employees that will resist and leave (or even terminated). This will also result to impacts of said companies bottom line. There's not a real win here for some businesses.

 

[Andrew C]

All this patchwork of mandates by the feds. With all the talk from certain states about taking this seriously, not one has taken my advice of just mandating the vaccine for all of their citizens. They don’t want to listen to me.

 

[GoofGoof]

Yeah. That’s kinda my point. Seems like a threat with no backbone.

You really think they need an audit or an investigation. Take this board as an example, if half the people here work for a company that’s not complying they would blow the whistle in a heartbeat. With millions in potential fines they can outsource the follow up investigation and still make a large profit for the government.

 

[VelocityRaptor]

Makes sense. The total number of adults not fully vaccinated is about 112M but not all are employed and some are employed by small businesses that are exempt.

I did very very rough math but I believe if all 80 million did get vaccinated it would bring our country wide vaccine rate up to around 90%. But like I said this was very rough math with lots of rounding and assumptions

 

[Timmay]

Yeah. That’s kinda my point. Seems like a threat with no backbone.

Oh, there might be some consequences for some, but I suspect nothing more severe than what we see from OSHA or CMS currently. Nobody is going to want to put a company out of business.

 

[SteveAZee]

Dr. Pino reports of those 191 deaths, the ages ranged from 29-100.

91 had known pre-exisiting conditions.

41 were fully vaccinated. 9 were partially vaccinated. 2 were past due on their second dose.

Do you have a link to this data? I'm curious.

 

[dreday3]

There ARE pretty good whistleblower rewards in cases of CMS fraud. Perhaps a similar situation for OSHA? If I felt unsafe at work, for any reason, I’d gladly call the authorities.

You can make MUCH money on CMS whistleblower fraud!

 

[Andrew C]

Oh, there might be some consequences for some, but I suspect nothing more severe than what we see from OSHA or CMS currently. Nobody is going to want to put a company out of business.

My bet is on this being challenged in court. I imagine certain judges will be more than willing to provide temporary relief to businesses. Could be wrong though.

 

[GoofGoof]

We have to understand that there will be employees that will resist and leave (or even terminated). This will also result to impacts of said companies bottom line. There's not a real win here for some businesses.

True, but much less likely of a problem today since it applies to every company. Take Disney as an example, they mandated vaccines for their workers before this. A park worker could quit and work for Universal. A resort worker could quit and work for the Hilton on International Drive. Now that all large employers have to implement the same rule it eliminates the competition. If the same park worker quits they can’t work for Universal or Sea World or LEGOLAND. Same applies to cashiers at Target or corporate office workers.

 

[DCBaker]

Do you have a link to this data? I'm curious.

You can watch the presser here -

 

[SteveAZee]

No. People knew they weren't 100% effective but were told that they were effective enough against infection that if "enough" were vaccinated it would lead to herd immunity. That turned out not to be correct. The vaccines have turned out to be a pretty good pre-exposure prophylactic against severe illness and death but not nearly effective enough against infection and transmission to ever reach herd immunity.

Will spikes be less severe? Sure. Will fewer people end up in the hospital or dead? Absolutely. Will COVID be eliminated or even be close to eliminated? Not even with 100% vaccinated.

From what I read at the time, we needed to hit 70% or so immunity to get to herd immunity. Hitting 70% wouldn't mean zero deaths or illnesses at that point, but the spread would lessen and eventually end. Unfortunately, the virus mutated and the new variant spreads more efficiently, so it's now estimated that 90% need immunity to get to herd immunity status.

 

[GoofGoof]

My bet is on this being challenged in court. I imagine certain judges will be more than willing to provide temporary relief to businesses. Could be wrong though.

Court challenge is inevitable. There is no court in the world that will stop a business from implementing a vaccine requirement themself and this gives every business in the country all the cover they need to mandate vaccines. Maybe some don’t implement and pay the fines and hope to get relief in court but the ”damage” will likely be done. I wouldn’t be surprised if most employees facing these rules get vaccinated before the case ever reaches court. Nobody wants a weekly covid test if there’s a way out of it.