Andrew C
You know what's funny?
I honestly did read everything you wrote. But I must call out this reference as something I enjoyed.Churchill was no saint, but he was a pretty good John Lithgow in Britain’s hour of need.
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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
- Thread starter Parker in NYC
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GimpYancIent
Well-Known Member
Meanwhile the Disney properties are operating and functioning, though with limitations, despite the ravages of this unseen enemy COVID19, this microbial terrorist. The current mitigations are reasonable and are common sense. A positive despite current managements business model.
What's happening in one health system doesn't necessarily represent the whole state.
Tho, it does look like a plateau over the past few days.
Also, remember, that a falling curve can stop falling and plateau or even start increasing again.
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
Well aren't you Mr. sunshine...
Seriously though, I hope the trend continues. Next 7 days could be telling...
Top states for hospitalizations per capita. The average for the U.S. is 29 per 100K.
The top states for deaths per capita. The U.S. average is .35 deaths per 100k...
The top states for deaths per capita. The U.S. average is .35 deaths per 100k...
Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
This is what I was getting at. Do the difficult, but necessary action, rather than the easy incorrect one.The better comparison would be to our presidents and governors who have straddled this across administrations. The overwhelming majority have left a void of leadership shown in the other presidents’ quotes. The better point is that they historically weren’t trying to appease their base and thereby alienating everyone else. That goes for both parties and a lot of sound bites along the way. Say the hard thing, lead from the top, and let the experts figure out how to get it done. I posted a few days ago the text of our superintendent’s email to school staff. It was difficult but stern leadership, political fallout be damned. He earned a lot of my respect (has been all along, tbh), but he answers only to the board here and not all voters.
Steve Jobs didn’t invent the modern handheld computing ecosystem all by himself. He’s the one with the vision and leadership to have seen it to fruition. Same for Bezos and Branson pioneering space tourism. From industrialists to presidents, they’re all flawed people that we can pick apart, but we can’t question their grit and fearless leadership. Churchill was no saint, but he was a pretty good John Lithgow in Britain’s hour of need
You probably do not recall the idiot Richard Reid from a flight from Paris to Miami who hid something in his shoes on a flight hence take off your shoes before the x ray at the TSA checkpoint.
Timmay
Well-Known Member
I’m going to nit pick a bit, so I apologize in advance.
Although I understand the point you are making, the comparisons don’t really work, especially the first two. Those first two succeeded because of what I believe are two or even three very important things.
WWII - The US had a very clear and definable goal…the unconditional surrender of the axis powers. Boom, pretty much clear as day. And even though FDR said “however long it takes” the day after the attack on Pearl Harbor, within weeks there was a clear and definable timeline to the goal. Germany first, with invasions of Africa in 1942 and then Europe in late 1943 to mid 1944…all while playing the defensive in the Pacific until the US industrial might could come on line, then island hop to Japan sometime in 1945. All definable goals with timelines. In addition, the enemy had names, faces and agendas. Humans have an easier time coming together and fighting something like that.
The Moon - Kennedy set the mark by telling congress “First, I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the Earth.” Goal and timeline, in one simple sentence. He also tied the moon goal to the evil and tyranny of the USSR. Again, anyone can see the moon on a lot of nights. It’s right there. And the threat of the USSR had been looming for years
9/11 - No definable goal, and certainly no definable timeline. No desire to be political, but one only need look at the news today.
I’m not saying your overall sentiment is wrong, and I’m certainly not saying we should be doing nothing…I’ve made several points about that, but it’s important to understand human nature in tackling something with no definable goal/timeline and without a face or known agenda. It’s just different. It doesn’t mean we stop trying, but the comparisons aren’t necessarily accurate.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
I did forget about that. I've had pre-check for several years so I don't have to do that nonsense anymore.
Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
But we do have a very obtainable endpoint (possibly, you never know how exactly these things will pan out)- Vaccinate!
Things may not be perfect, but if we get enough people vaccinated, we certainly will be much, much better off.
sullyinMT
Well-Known Member
I wanted to get to a desktop and illustrate a few points in just my state of MT. Since nobody lives here, but those that do live in just a few pockets. I still laugh when people refer to "the big city," when it's barely a Cincinnati suburb where I grew up. I have recently visited or live in each of these areas for youth fencing and swim tournaments, so can speak to local attitudes. Hospitalizations per county are pointless, as we do so much transferring and intake of underserved, ultra-rural areas.
Gallatin County (Bozeman, MT State Univ., gateway to Yellowstone travel): 34.4 people/mi^2. 48% total fully vaccinated, 55% 12+, 57% 18+. About the best you can ask a rural state in terms of non-vaccine mitigation. 24 cases/100k, 8.4% positivity.
Yellowstone County (Billings, big shopping hub for Wyoming and ND folks to avoid sales tax): 49.1 people/mi^2. 41%, 49%, 52%. People masking roughly matches those vaccine numbers and businesses couldn't care less. 38.5/100k, 10% positivity.
Missoula County (Univ of MT, easiest airport to Glacier, serves a large # of native counties for healthcare needs): 42.1/mi^2. 55%, 63%, 64%. 40.4/100k, 17% positivity. People let their guard down, mitigation used to be awesome here. The youngest ages groups have the highest spread, so it appears schools (K-college) are driving the recent outbreak there.
Looking at these rates across the three "big cities," it's not an either/or. It really is both. If it were just vaccines, Missoula would be wiping the other two across the floor. Bozeman has hit a better middle ground, for now. Either via businesses or government, mitigations need to be enforced until enough people are vaccinated. At a minimum, until parents can choose whether or not to vaccinate their children. Because <5 may take a long while yet, let's meet in the middle and say 5-11 needs EUA for a few months' time before we really let our collective apathy run wild. At least with everyone over 5 eligible that would get us to 93% of all Americans that could have a shot, and nearly 100% of those at risk for the worst of COVID.
Timmay
Well-Known Member
But t
To be fair, vaccinate or “better off” are not endpoints, and “better off” is subjective. They are stepping stones to an endpoint. I’m not saying there even is a clearly definable endpoint to Covid as it may not be possible. But I don’t think there could be much argument that if we could say our goal was the complete eradication of Covid by summer 2022 the response would be better. Again, I’m not saying that’s possible, but human nature responds to that better.
Polkadotdress
Well-Known Member
More data about Florida being “the worst”:
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
Sad. They should have gotten vaccinated.
Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
I do wonder if our delayed schedule for second doses, which results in a stronger antibody response, and the higher uptake, is really showing the benefit. We may be one of the countries to watch.
sullyinMT
Well-Known Member
They weren't very clear about it at the time, but I feel the CDC did have an endpoint in mind when they let their foot off the gas in their guidance back in May. Hospitalizations, cases, positivity, and deaths were all headed the right way. The leadership within the CDC and likely other Executive agencies knew people were getting itchy, and the went from Ridiculous Speed to idle overnight. Going forward, it would be ideal to at least get a framework from the top about what we are aiming to achieve to "live with the virus." Not just our color-coded levels of transmission chart, but clear, actionable endpoints and steps along the way. In the program I work, post-op nurses have a multi-system flow chart that illustrates just what meaningful recovery to discharge should look like. Nothing is expected to be linear, and if one system faults the rest of the patient is put on standby/observed until recovery resumes. Americans could handle that, if we were fed more than soundbites. It wouldn't be perfect, but we'd reach a lot more people with consistent and non-abrasive language. The recent WH briefings led by Zients are pretty good in this regard, but aren't mass communicated like the previous circus - and they still lack a definition of endpoints and our progress toward them. After 18 months, the communication is still the biggest disaster.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
I was very recently in Missoula and I can confirm that there is essentially no mitigation of any kind. The problem with mitigating until enough people are vaccinated is that it doesn't seem like there are that many people still getting vaccinated, at least not at a rate that the end date will be measured in months. The only significant increase will come from whoever decides to vaccinate their 5-11 year old children once that is an option.
People talk about FL like nobody here does anything. Compared to the areas I was in in MT, FL is in lockdown. Eating and shopping in Missoula, maybe 15% of people wore masks and this is a place that had a mask mandate until late May. I attended an outdoor concert and I could probably count the total number of attendees wearing masks on my hands and feet out of more than 15,000 people.
This was all fine with me as psychologically I feel less safe when people around me are masking and I felt this way before I was vaccinated. I know that it isn't the case but that's how I feel. The kind of anxiety that some people feel when others aren't masked, I feel when they are.
It is apparent that when you are in an area that people are masked up it triggers unpleasant emotions to yourself. I would trigger pleasant emotions in that people are doing the right thing in masking up. It goes the other way also and that's why this is one of the reasons of the pandemic of the unvaccinated where a number refuse to get vaccinated before it infringes on their freedom and liberty. The anxiety of people unmasked while I am in close quarters while I am masked - count me in with unpleasant emotions.
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