Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GimpYancIent]

Thankyou. Most of the holdouts don't appear to be true antivaxxers. They have concerns, which unfortunately, are usually maliciously seeded through social media by actual antivaxxers. The best way forward is to ask them what specific concerns they have, then address them. It does require constantly staying on top of both the current literature and the latest antivaxx poppycock, which I admit, can sometimes be hard even for people who do this professionally (that lipid nanoparticles in the ovaries thing from yesterday was a new one for me). Unless you are really dealing with a malicious actor, "meeting people where they are" seems to be the best approach. Many people just have a mental hump they need to get over. Unfortunately, though, with the delta variant now gaining steam, we might not have enough time for people to get over their own hump. That's why I support a combination of vaccine passports and mandates.

I appreciate the medical professional approach. Not the arm flapping, irritating and abrasive name calling.

 

[Virtual Toad]

I never said you did, you misinterpreted what I wrote.

Also I never regurgitated anti-vaxers, I personally don't know any of them and I'm not as on top of their rhetoric as you appear to be. Medical professionals are not above making making mistakes. Just look at Fouchi who has change his recommendations time and time again. This could be attributed to the fact that this was a new virus and nobody, not even the experts knew what to expect, they were learning just like the rest of us. FYI he reminds me of Napoleon, I think of him as little Napoleon.

The proof is there if you want it. I'm sure you already know but don't want to bring it to light because it doesn't support your narrative.

At this point I don't see the point in continuing this conversation with you, you have your opinions and I have mine and apparently the two do not match. I hope you and your family stay well. I hope we see an end to this sometime soon. Unfortunately the virus will be with us for the foreseeable future but hopefully we will get it under control if enough people see the light and get vaccinated.

Little Napoleon?! And it’s Fauci. Dr. Fauci. You may be honest in your claim that you are not an anti-vaxxer, but even if that is true, you sure seem to be happy sowing an awful lot of doubt and uncertainty. Not helpful. Innuendo and rhetoric designed to derail the ongoing effort to get us all past the pandemic is detrimental to everyone. This may not be your intent, and you are entitled to your opinion, but please consider thinking twice before spreading these unproductive talking points. People’s lives are literally at stake.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Really, I guess since I'm NOT and anti-vaxxer I don't know this. Not sure what exactly you are trying to say in your second sentence, not good communications here.

I don't agree with you on the google search, I did one and I found what I was looking for. Try again if your so inclined but I think you already who the naysayers were.


Exactly, we still don't have all the answers. The answers will come in time but at this point we are still learning.


I guess that could be true if I knew any anti-vaxxers but I don't. The only anti-vaxxers I know about are the ones from early on who have done a 180 since that time.

That lipid nanoparticles stuff was deliberate antivaxxer distortion on a rat study. I won't go into all the details, but given the way ovaries (and adrenals and testes) manufacture steroid hormones, the results were completely expected.

And we now have plenty of actual human cohort studys in the OB/GYN literature that have demonstrated absolutely no difference in fertility between vaccinate and unvaccinated individuals.

 

[GoofGoof]

Yes, something could happen. It could be the body gets good at making the spike proteins and just keeps doing it, even after the instructions have dissolved. Or, it makes so many it overwhelms the immune system. I don't know all of the combinations and permutations of what could happen when you introduce a radical new concept into your body, but I know I'd need time to see what they are or aren't before I trusted it. Because of the novelty of the approach, that trust will take time.

Not sure if you realize this or not, but the vaccine is flushed from your body within days. There’s nothing left months or years later except for antibodies and t-cells. Those same antibodies and t-cells are produced with a natural covid infection so if months or years from now those cells cause some problem then anyone who was naturally infected would have the same issues as someone vaccinated. In the history of human anatomy that has never happened with any vaccine or virus but if you want to play “the infinity game” and say we don’t know for sure what will happen then there’s no real answer to that. It’s also possible there really is a Santa Claus or the Earth is flat or reptilIan aliens really control the planet. We can’t say for 100% certainty any of that isn’t true yet we all (most of us ) accept those things to not be true because there is overwhelming evidence they aren’t. The same applies to the vaccines.

My question is do the people who doubt the safety of this virus take the same approach with anything they put into their bodies? Do any of them ever use recreational drugs? Smoke a little pot, do some E? (I grew up in the 90s is that still a thing?). Do they take supplements from GNC? Do they drink craft beers brewed at a small microbrewery? Do they take any sort of supplements or vitamins? Most if not all of that stuff has never been approved or even reviewed by the FDA but many, many people put those things into their body every day without questioning it. If you go to the doctor and he prescribes an anti-biotic for a sore throat do you ask to see 10 years of safety data from that specific drug? Ask to see the studies done and evidence it’s safe? Most people trust their doctor and the FDA wouldn’t give them something harmful. How is this different? Politics??? Easy answer.

 

[dreday3]

Christ…it’s been 18 months!!! Still with this?

Overdue

I don’t know what Star Trek issue language we need to use to get basic stuff like this across to the holdouts? It surely isn’t Vulcan.

Who asked? Morons who didn’t get vaccinated? Yes…yes they did insist it be this way.

Cruise ships are heading to port (for dry dock)…that part is inevitable now

…as long as we all can rest easy that you’re being taken care of

you know antibodies dissipate, correct? So requiring mass antibody testing doesn’t actually prove anything.

Overdue? School hasn't even started yet. CPS is ahead of the game on this one.

Do you comment just to comment?

 

[correcaminos]

I never said you did, you misinterpreted what I wrote.

Also I never regurgitated anti-vaxers, I personally don't know any of them and I'm not as on top of their rhetoric as you appear to be. Medical professionals are not above making making mistakes. Just look at Fouchi who has change his recommendations time and time again. This could be attributed to the fact that this was a new virus and nobody, not even the experts knew what to expect, they were learning just like the rest of us. FYI he reminds me of Napoleon, I think of him as little Napoleon.

The proof is there if you want it. I'm sure you already know but don't want to bring it to light because it doesn't support your narrative.

At this point I don't see the point in continuing this conversation with you, you have your opinions and I have mine and apparently the two do not match. I hope you and your family stay well. I hope we see an end to this sometime soon. Unfortunately the virus will be with us for the foreseeable future but hopefully we will get it under control if enough people see the light and get vaccinated.

My apologies but I took it from this "To assume otherwise is really a bit of a reach..."

As for not regurgitating anti-vax rhetoric? You are. You missing it really is part of the larger issue. Well meaning people are sharing information that is not factually correct and spreads fear. Your tone is so negative on science even above. I truly hope you do actually see this sometime so you can help this come to and end faster. All the best to you and your family.

 

[Figgy1]

Overdue? School hasn't even started yet. CPS is ahead of the game on this one.

Do you comment just to comment?

School has already started in many places https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/m...-in-a-florida-county/ar-AANiQIG?ocid=msedgntp

 

[GoofGoof]

Give me the Novavax vaccine, and the conversation is over.

Why not JnJ? That one isn’t mRNA based?

 

[dreday3]

School has already started in many places https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/m...-in-a-florida-county/ar-AANiQIG?ocid=msedgntp

And ours haven't.

 

[GoofGoof]

My apologies but I took it from this "To assume otherwise is really a bit of a reach..."

As for not regurgitating anti-vax rhetoric? You are. You missing it really is part of the larger issue. Well meaning people are sharing information that is not factually correct and spreads fear. Your tone is so negative on science even above. I truly hope you do actually see this sometime so you can help this come to and end faster. All the best to you and your family.

From the start of this I have found it fascinating how offended people get when they are called anti-vaxx. The basic definition would be opposed to the vaccine. So if you write a bunch of stuff in opposition to the vaccine then by technical definition you are anti this vaccine or anti-vaxx for short. Maybe it’s the X that sets people off

What is frightening to me is how many people don’t realize that they are being deliberately fed false information from people who are profiting from the anti-vaxx movement mostly from selling books or supplements. This situation really highlights the true dangers of the social media echo chambers. People are literally dying because they bought into some nonsense spread by a guy who wants to make a few bucks selling supplements as alternative medicine.

 

[Virtual Toad]

From the start of this I have found it fascinating how offended people get when they are called anti-vaxx. The basic definition would be opposed to the vaccine. So if you write a bunch of stuff in opposition to the vaccine then by technical definition you are anti this vaccine or anti-vaxx for short. Maybe it’s the X that sets people off

What is frightening to me is how many people don’t realize that they are being deliberately fed false information from people who are profiting from the anti-vaxx movement mostly from selling books or supplements. This situation really highlights the true dangers of the social media echo chambers. People are literally dying because they bought into some nonsense spread by a guy who wants to make a few bucks selling supplements as alternative medicine.

There are a plethora of motives, some financial, some political. All are cynical in nature. Sadly COVID is just one of the diseases humanity is dealing with at the moment.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Masks are no replacement for being vaccinated. It’s not an either/or.

I would love to see the data on this. How effective is masks and distancing. How effective is the vaccine + masks and distancing.

Many pro-vaccination folks pushing to force or scare people into vaccinating are actually being counter productive and reinforcing the reasons for the Wait and See attitude and getting the no-vax folks to dig in their heels.

Very true. My friends / coworkers who won’t get the vaccine are using the “bribes and mandates” as an excuse to not get it.

There is no means by which a vaccine could cause a problem several months or years later.

I mean, it’s certainly possible.

The smaller businesses that did survive would probably never survive another lock-down.

Or they would know exactly how to do it cause they had the practice!

 

[bryanfze55]

Not sure if you realize this or not, but the vaccine is flushed from your body within days. There’s nothing left months or years later except for antibodies and t-cells. Those same antibodies and t-cells are produced with a natural covid infection so if months or years from now those cells cause some problem then anyone who was naturally infected would have the same issues as someone vaccinated. In the history of human anatomy that has never happened with any vaccine or virus but if you want to play “the infinity game” and say we don’t know for sure what will happen then there’s no real answer to that. It’s also possible there really is a Santa Claus or the Earth is flat or reptilIan aliens really control the planet. We can’t say for 100% certainty any of that isn’t true yet we all (most of us ) accept those things to not be true because there is overwhelming evidence they aren’t. The same applies to the vaccines.

My question is do the people who doubt the safety of this virus take the same approach with anything they put into their bodies? Do any of them ever use recreational drugs? Smoke a little pot, do some E? (I grew up in the 90s is that still a thing?). Do they take supplements from GNC? Do they drink craft beers brewed at a small microbrewery? Do they take any sort of supplements or vitamins? Most if not all of that stuff has never been approved or even reviewed by the FDA but many, many people put those things into their body every day without questioning it. If you go to the doctor and he prescribes an anti-biotic for a sore throat do you ask to see 10 years of safety data from that specific drug? Ask to see the studies done and evidence it’s safe? Most people trust their doctor and the FDA wouldn’t give them something harmful. How is this different? Politics??? Easy answer.

This made me laugh. I had this conversation a week ago, asking a cousin of mine why he wouldn’t get the vaccine when he smokes pot on occasion. He pulled the ole “it comes from the Earth, the vaccine comes from a lab” card. I really didn’t argue with him, but ultimately you’re right that it’s political (at least for the rural population). They feel like they’re being told what to do by institutional powers, and they will instinctively run in the opposite direction. If the government says do X, they will do Y even if it’s not in their best interest.

 

[correcaminos]

From the start of this I have found it fascinating how offended people get when they are called anti-vaxx. The basic definition would be opposed to the vaccine. So if you write a bunch of stuff in opposition to the vaccine then by technical definition you are anti this vaccine or anti-vaxx for short. Maybe it’s the X that sets people off

What is frightening to me is how many people don’t realize that they are being deliberately fed false information from people who are profiting from the anti-vaxx movement mostly from selling books or supplements. This situation really highlights the true dangers of the social media echo chambers. People are literally dying because they bought into some nonsense spread by a guy who wants to make a few bucks selling supplements as alternative medicine.

The weird part for me is how those who vaccinated and willingly spread the false information. Like they are saying they're promoting the vaccine by their actions, but their words don't match.

Let's be real, spreading false information with vaccines is not new. Thanks to autism links that were found to be false (doctor stripped of their license) are still believed. Anti-vax can be entirely anti-vax or a single vaccine. Anti-vax rhetoric is fueled by people peddling their cures preying on the natural anxieties and fears people have.

 

[bryanfze55]

Christ…it’s been 18 months!!! Still with this?

Overdue

I don’t know what Star Trek issue language we need to use to get basic stuff like this across to the holdouts? It surely isn’t Vulcan.

Who asked? Morons who didn’t get vaccinated? Yes…yes they did insist it be this way.

Cruise ships are heading to port (for dry dock)…that part is inevitable now

…as long as we all can rest easy that you’re being taken care of

you know antibodies dissipate, correct? So requiring mass antibody testing doesn’t actually prove anything.

I’m not comparing COVID-19 to the flu in the present. I’m saying our goal should be to get COVID-19 death rates down to a similar level with higher vaccination rates. This odd idea that we can never use COVID-19 in the same sentence as another disease is… curious. It’s not downplaying COVID.

 

[GimpYancIent]

This made me laugh. I had this conversation a week ago, asking a cousin of mine why he wouldn’t get the vaccine when he smokes pot on occasion. He pulled the ole “it comes from the Earth, the vaccine comes from a lab” card. I really didn’t argue with him, but ultimately you’re right that it’s political (at least for the rural population). They feel like they’re being told what to do by institutional powers, and they will instinctively run in the opposite direction. If the government says do X, they will do Y even if it’s not in their best interest.

Yep, a lot of rebels out there, No Cause, just want to be rebels.

 

[GoofGoof]

The weird part for me is how those who vaccinated and willingly spread the false information. Like they are saying they're promoting the vaccine by their actions, but their words don't match.

Let's be real, spreading false information with vaccines is not new. Thanks to autism links that were found to be false (doctor stripped of their license) are still believed. Anti-vax can be entirely anti-vax or a single vaccine. Anti-vax rhetoric is fueled by people peddling their cures preying on the natural anxieties and fears people have.

Yeah, for those people it’s obvious they don’t even believe what they are saying. What a strange world we live in right now.

 

[GoofGoof]

I would love to see the data on this. How effective is masks and distancing. How effective is the vaccine + masks and distancing.

Seriously? What data? Even in public where you actually wear a mask they aren’t as effective, but would you suggest people wear a mask at home with just their family? How about while actively eating or drinking or having your teeth cleaned by the dentist. The vaccines are “active” at all times. Masks were a stopgap measure when we didn’t have vaccines yet. There’s no logical argument that can possibly be made that masks are on par with or better than the vaccine.

 

[Heppenheimer]

My question is do the people who doubt the safety of this virus take the same approach with anything they put into their bodies? Do any of them ever use recreational drugs? Smoke a little pot, do some E? (I grew up in the 90s is that still a thing?). Do they take supplements from GNC? Do they drink craft beers brewed at a small microbrewery? Do they take any sort of supplements or vitamins? Most if not all of that stuff has never been approved or even reviewed by the FDA but many, many people put those things into their body every day without questioning it. If you go to the doctor and he prescribes an anti-biotic for a sore throat do you ask to see 10 years of safety data from that specific drug? Ask to see the studies done and evidence it’s safe? Most people trust their doctor and the FDA wouldn’t give them something harmful. How is this different? Politics??? Easy answer.

And thanks to Senators Orin Hatch, Tom Harkin and their Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994, the FDA can only intervene if a supplement maker makes an explicit claim that their product treats a disease (without undergoing the same regulatory standards pharmaceuticals must meet) or if the FDA can show definite proof of harm from the supplement, thus putting the burden of proof on the FDA, not the manufacturer. I wonder how many unvaccinated gym bros give that a thought as they slurp their all-important pre-workout shake.

A nurse I work with gave me a great example of this kind of thinking. Regarding COVID vaccination, her mother states she is not going to put "those chemicals in her body". While drinking from a 20 oz bottle of Coca Cola.

 

[Heppenheimer]

This made me laugh. I had this conversation a week ago, asking a cousin of mine why he wouldn’t get the vaccine when he smokes pot on occasion. He pulled the ole “it comes from the Earth, the vaccine comes from a lab” card. I really didn’t argue with him, but ultimately you’re right that it’s political (at least for the rural population). They feel like they’re being told what to do by institutional powers, and they will instinctively run in the opposite direction. If the government says do X, they will do Y even if it’s not in their best interest.

Arsenic and lead, which have been found in shockingly high concentrations in marijuana samples, also "come from the Earth".