Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[dreday3]

Do we know that? I would think masks and distancing prevent delta as well.

Do we know what - that if you get delta when unvaccinated you have a higher chance of severe illness and death? We sure do! And that's enough to say on any doubts about getting vaccine.

It's Saturday and beautiful out, going out! Have a good day!

 

[DisneyFan32]

That will probably depend entirely upon what is going on with the infection and hospitalization levels at that point. Those are the biggest travel times of the year, I don't see the masked mandates being lifted specifically for that time. Unless the government feels that travel is safer again. That will depend probably on vaccination rates and infection rates at that time.

We have to wait until between late September, October and November as more anti-vaxxers will get vaccinated as the mask mandate will be lifted soon before Thanksgiving and Christmas. As there will be more safe for travelers for holidays.

 

[Lady Liberty]

Little Napoleon?! And it’s Fauci. Dr. Fauci. You may be honest in your claim that you are not an anti-vaxxer, but even if that is true, you sure seem to be happy sowing an awful lot of doubt and uncertainty. Not helpful. Innuendo and rhetoric designed to derail the ongoing effort to get us all past the pandemic is detrimental to everyone. This may not be your intent, and you are entitled to your opinion, but please consider thinking twice before spreading these unproductive talking points. People’s lives are literally at stake.

Yes I know his name and rank, thank you very much. That doesn’t change the fact that when I see him he reminds me of Napoleon. Sorry if you don't see it.

I'm not sowing anything but the truth that we are still learning about this virus and we don't have all the answers. Any reasonable person knows this. Please show me what doubt and uncertainty I’m “sowing”.

I thought this was a discussion about CV19 and all points of view should be considered. If we don’t look at this from all angles how can we get to the answer? Back a little in this thread an issue was brought to light about another contributing factor to our current and future condition, those people were very rudely beaten down by a few posters because it’s a very controversial subject. People want to put their heads in the sand and deny that it could and will have a bearing on our country's recovery from CV19. So there are 4180 pages basically saying the same thing over and over again. We aren’t going to solve anything here, especially when only one point of view seems to be allowed.

I also want to thank you for allowing me to have my opinion. Here is another opinion, until we can be honest about all the contributing factors to the ongoing crises of CV19 without all the name calling we will never solve this problem.

You only get information from people who know personally? You’ve never read a book or even an article to learn something?

Really? That's what you got from what I posted? Like I just said above, we will never get anywhere if we only look at one point of view. We have to look at all angles to have an enlightened point of view.

It would be much easier to try and understand other points of view if those giving them would be a little more civil when they share their views. Insulting comments and trying to belittle other posters intelligence is not going to achieve the outcome we are all looking for.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Do we know what - that if you get delta when unvaccinated you have a higher chance of severe illness and death? We sure do! And that's enough to say on any doubts about getting vaccine.

It's Saturday and beautiful out, going out! Have a good day!

I was asking do we know that masks and distancing aren’t effective, or are less effective in keeping people from catching the delta variant.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Really? That's what you got from what I posted? Like I just said above, we will never get anywhere if we only look at one point of view. We have to look at all angles to have an enlightened point of view.

It would be much easier to try and understand other points of view if those giving them would be a little more civil when they share their views. Insulting comments and trying to belittle other posters intelligence is not going to achieve the outcome we are all looking for.

A lie is not a point of view. It is not something that should be respected as just a difference of opinion. Doubly so for lies that cause real harm to people. Lies spread by anti-vaxxers were respected as a difference of opinion and we are now seeing the breadth of their reach. Their lies have become simply a part of popular discourse and so ingrained that they are considered reasonable and worth considering and then people such as yourself repeat them and defend them even though they are baseless lies.

 

[Lady Liberty]

A lie is not a point of view. It is not something that should be respected as just a difference of opinion. Doubly so for lies that cause real harm to people. Lies spread by anti-vaxxers were respected as a difference of opinion and we are now seeing the breadth of their reach. Their lies have become simply a part of popular discourse and so ingrained that they are considered reasonable and worth considering and then people such as yourself repeat them and defend them even though they are baseless lies.

What lies? Please tell me what lie you refer to in my post. Thank you.

 

[lazyboy97o]

What lies? Please tell me what lie you refer to in my post. Thank you.

You repeated the issue of fertility in women. That is rooted in the “We don’t know if vaccines cause fertility issues” lie that exists for pretty much every vaccine.

 

[danlb_2000]

Do we know that? I would think masks and distancing prevent delta as well.

Masks and distancing where not enough to stop the spread of earlier lineages of the virus, they shore aren't going to be enough to stop the delta variant. They both help reduce the change of infection, but they won't eliminate it. Masks and distancing also do very little to reduce your chance of serious illness once you are infected. All the data on vaccines show that they significantly reduce the chance of serious illness and also reduce the chance of infection.

 

[SammyMF]

In the end this whole debate will mostly fade away because all significant businesses will require their workers to get vaccinated. Or they can try and find another business that doesn't require it and hope they get hired. Of course they can simply go the self-employed route, or start their own business, which a great many do. In which case they must respect the wishes of the clients that do require it if the job involves personal contact or visiting ones home. So long as it doesnt involve established anti-discrimination laws. Those doing business are under no obligation to say or do any of it of course. Then again, the client is under no obligation to retain their services.

A lot of these people complaining 'infringement' and such, typically republicans, conveniently forget that part of their party platform explicitly says that business has the same freedoms as people. And they have their win of the legal decision that established that very thing. I suppose they can argue 'discrimination' and might have a point. But then again their party works hard to dismiss that argument every day. You dont get to try and do both.

 

[Chi84]

That doesn’t change the fact that when I see him he reminds me of Napoleon. Sorry if you don't see it.
Insulting comments and trying to belittle other posters intelligence is not going to achieve the outcome we are all looking for.

You kind of reap what you sow, though. If you're going to chide someone for not "seeing" that Dr. Fauci reminds you of Napoleon, you can't expect them to respect your intelligence and avoid insulting comments.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Masks and distancing where not enough to stop the spread of earlier lineages of the virus, they shore aren't going to be enough to stop the delta variant. They both help reduce the change of infection, but they won't eliminate it. Masks and distancing also do very little to reduce your chance of serious illness once you are infected. All the data on vaccines show that they significantly reduce the chance of serious illness and also reduce the chance of infection.

I’m not arguing that a vaccine will help you if you catch it - that’s extremely obvious. You have WAY better chances of not ending up in the hospital if you have a vaccine and catch covid.

I’m asking about the effectiveness of catching covid in the first place.

Vaccines alone.
Vs.
Masks and distancing alone.
Vs.
Vaccine + masks and distancing.

 

[Lady Liberty]

You repeated the issue of fertility in women. That is rooted in the “We don’t know if vaccines cause fertility issues” lie that exists for pretty much every vaccine.

This is wrong and a distortion of what I said. If you want to believe what you write have at it but you know that what you just said is wrong and not at all what I said. Hope you have a good day...

 

[Virtual Toad]

Yes I know his name and rank, thank you very much. That doesn’t change the fact that when I see him he reminds me of Napoleon. Sorry if you don't see it.

I'm not sowing anything but the truth that we are still learning about this virus and we don't have all the answers. Any reasonable person knows this. Please show me what doubt and uncertainty I’m “sowing”.

I thought this was a discussion about CV19 and all points of view should be considered. If we don’t look at this from all angles how can we get to the answer? Back a little in this thread an issue was brought to light about another contributing factor to our current and future condition, those people were very rudely beaten down by a few posters because it’s a very controversial subject. People want to put their heads in the sand and deny that it could and will have a bearing on our country's recovery from CV19. So there are 4180 pages basically saying the same thing over and over again. We aren’t going to solve anything here, especially when only one point of view seems to be allowed.

I also want to thank you for allowing me to have my opinion. Here is another opinion, until we can be honest about all the contributing factors to the ongoing crises of CV19 without all the name calling we will never solve this problem.


Really? That's what you got from what I posted? Like I just said above, we will never get anywhere if we only look at one point of view. We have to look at all angles to have an enlightened point of view.

It would be much easier to try and understand other points of view if those giving them would be a little more civil when they share their views. Insulting comments and trying to belittle other posters intelligence is not going to achieve the outcome we are all looking for.

Yes... but no. In case you’re wondering where the Napoleon thing comes from and whether it should have any weight at all in a serious conversation about a deadly ongoing pandemic, let me share with you just one of many links revealing how the Napoleon angle is a calculated and deliberate talking point of the anti-vax contingent. Link to follow but here’s a quote from the “article”:

“In psychology, the Napoleon complex is regarded as a derogatory social stereotype

Everyone now knows that Anthony Fauci is a fraud, an emperor with no clothes, a liar and a narcissist who is verylikely respo ible for tens of thousands ofdeaths because he squelched the use ofhydroxychloroquine and ivermectin in favor of costly vaccines in which he is alleged to have a financial stake.”

End of quote. So when you throw something out there and then backpedal by responding with “he just reminds me of Napoleon” it does come across as a bit absurd.

Once again, please give everyone here a break and stop the “this is just part of the discussion” nonsense. If you really want to have an adult conversation about COVID on the merits of an issue, be our guest. But stop regurgitating repugnant garbage that serves no constructive purpose. And if you really are doing this innocently, please do just a little bit of research before you consider posting this garbage. Thanks and thank you for sharing your perspective. You are entitled to your opinion just as we are entitled to respond to it with our own.

Link as promised:

Fauci's Napoleon complex [VIDEO]

nthony Fauci is a textbook case of "Napoleon Complex", a theorized inferiority complex normally attributed to people of short stature. It is characterized by overly-aggressive or domineering social behavior, such as lying about earnings, and carries the implication that such behavior is...

www.watchoutnews.com

 

[danlb_2000]

This is wrong and a distortion of what I said. If you want to believe what you write have at it but you know that what you just said is wrong and not at all what I said. Hope you have a good day...

Someone said: "It has been shown that the lipid nanoparticles that encase the mRNA do concentrate in the ovaries which was not envisioned in the original trial plan.
What is the outcome of this finding? Noone knows at this point."

and you responded:

"Exactly, we still don't have all the answers. The answers will come in time but at this point we are still learning."

So you agreed with something that has no basis in fact.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

It has been shown that the lipid nanoparticles that encase the mRNA do concentrate in the ovaries which was not envisioned in the original trial plan.

Is this a fact or not?

So you agreed with something that has no basis in fact.

 

[GoofGoof]

I’m not arguing that a vaccine will help you if you catch it - that’s extremely obvious. You have WAY better chances of not ending up in the hospital if you have a vaccine and catch covid.

I’m asking about the effectiveness of catching covid in the first place.

Vaccines alone.
Vs.
Masks and distancing alone.
Vs.
Vaccine + masks and distancing.

The 3rd option is clearly most effective due to layers. The vaccines are still highly effective vs covid with efficacy over 85% in most recent studies. Masks and distancing are clearly not as effective because you cannot remain masked and distanced 24/7 with a mask fit properly and you cannot guarantee everyone around you will.

Even if you had a lab study that showed the efficacy of masks and distancing was higher than the vaccine in a controlled environment in a lab in the real world the vaccine is superior. For example, if a workplace or venue only allowed fully vaccinated people in then you know everyone has that level of protection 24/7 from vaccination (not 100% but very high). If you allow someone in with a mask who isn’t vaccinated we have no idea what they did yesterday or 10 minutes ago. So they could be wearing a mask now but at the bar last night they didn’t and are much more likely to be infected. Even less black and white that person could always wear their mask in public and didn’t go to a bar unmasked but they had contact with their spouse or kids who were infected or even their dental hygienist.

The point is that vaccines are more effective than masks and distancing.

 

[danlb_2000]

Is this a fact or not?

It is not a fact. And just to be clear the way you quoted me made it look like I said that, even though I was actually quoting someone else that said it.

COVID Vaccine Nanoparticles Accumulating In The Ovaries? — Natalie Crawford, MD

Is the COVID vaccine hurting your fertility? Dr. Natalie Crawford, board certified fertility doctor, answers your questions about if COVID vaccine nanoparticles accumulate in the ovaries. Questions answered: Does the COVID vaccine impact ovarian function? Is the COVID vaccine toxic to the ovar

www.nataliecrawfordmd.com

COVID-19 vaccines don’t affect ovaries or fertility in general; the vaccines are highly effective at preventing illness and death

Real-world evidence shows that the COVID-19 RNA vaccines are highly effective at preventing illness and death. There is evidence indicating that spike protein during infection can lead to damage, but this isn’t representative of the situation in vaccination. The level of spike protein generated...

healthfeedback.org

 

[sullyinMT]

Do we know that? I would think masks and distancing prevent delta as well.

Since at least England and Scotland in the UK still had masks and distancing in place when delta took hold, and their hospitalizations and death from that variant are being driven by the unvaccinated, we absolutely have data that the vaccines>>masks+distancing. Early indicators from Lollapalooza with vaccine mandates at a large venue show the same.

Preliminary, unpublished data. But real world application we can all see unfolding. The vaccines are our way out.

 

[Communicora]

Is this a fact or not?

It is a false claim.

COVID-19 vaccines don’t affect ovaries or fertility in general; the vaccines are highly effective at preventing illness and death

Real-world evidence shows that the COVID-19 RNA vaccines are highly effective at preventing illness and death. There is evidence indicating that spike protein during infection can lead to damage, but this isn’t representative of the situation in vaccination. The level of spike protein generated...

healthfeedback.org

 

[DisneyFan32]

The 3rd option is clearly most effective due to layers. The vaccines are still highly effective vs covid with efficacy over 85% in most recent studies. Masks and distancing are clearly not as effective because you cannot remain masked and distanced 24/7 with a mask fit properly and you cannot guarantee everyone around you will.

Even if you had a lab study that showed the efficacy of masks and distancing was higher than the vaccine in a controlled environment in a lab in the real world the vaccine is superior. For example, if a workplace or venue only allowed fully vaccinated people in then you know everyone has that level of protection 24/7 from vaccination (not 100% but very high). If you allow someone in with a mask who isn’t vaccinated we have no idea what they did yesterday or 10 minutes ago. So they could be wearing a mask now but at the bar last night they didn’t and are much more likely to be infected. Even less black and white that person could always wear their mask in public and didn’t go to a bar unmasked but they had contact with their spouse or kids who were infected or even their dental hygienist.

The point is that vaccines are more effective than masks and distancing.

@GoofGoof By holidays aka Thanksgiving and Christmas, federal transportation will lift mask mandate for travelers when the cases are low enough and the travel is safe again for holidays like trains, buses and planes as cruises too that many more people are getting vaccinating as anti-vaxxers too.