Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GenerationX]

So you are just going to hide behind “something could happen” and not present a plausible issue?

Yes, something could happen. It could be the body gets good at making the spike proteins and just keeps doing it, even after the instructions have dissolved. Or, it makes so many it overwhelms the immune system. I don't know all of the combinations and permutations of what could happen when you introduce a radical new concept into your body, but I know I'd need time to see what they are or aren't before I trusted it. Because of the novelty of the approach, that trust will take time.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yes, something could happen. It could be the body gets good at making the spike proteins and just keeps doing it, even after the instructions have dissolved. Or, it makes so many it overwhelms the immune system. I don't know all of the combinations and permutations of what could happen when you introduce a radical new concept into your body, but I know I'd need time to see what they are or aren't before I trusted it. Because of the novelty of the approach, that trust will take time.

This is not a radical new concept being introduced to your body. Your body is doing it right now. If your cells could somehow memorize mRNA then you would have a disorder right now and would already be spontaneously producing random proteins right now. You’ve had 56 years to see that your body isn’t spontaneously making proteins.

 

[celluloid]

This is not a radical new concept being introduced to your body. Your body is doing it right now. If your cells could somehow memorize mRNA then you would have a disorder right now and would already be spontaneously producing random proteins right now.

Exactly. It is giving your body information to fight it better.

In some ways this oversimplifies it, but dang the incorrect information really has mystified it into something extreme and altering to the body...that simply does not happen.

 

[GenerationX]

Instructing the body to make cells it is then going to fight is a radical new concept.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Instructing the body to make cells it is then going to fight is a radical new concept.

They’re proteins, not cells. Your body is making proteins right now. An attenuated virus vaccine is not new and also involves your body making something it then fights.

 

[GimpYancIent]

This is what the CDC says;
"How Vaccines Work
Vaccines help develop immunity by imitating an infection. This type of infection, however, almost never causes illness, but it does cause the immune system to produce T-lymphocytes and antibodies. Sometimes, after getting a vaccine, the imitation infection can cause minor symptoms, such as fever. Such minor symptoms are normal and should be expected as the body builds immunity.
Once the imitation infection goes away, the body is left with a supply of “memory” T-lymphocytes, as well as B-lymphocytes that will remember how to fight that disease in the future. However, it typically takes a few weeks for the body to produce T-lymphocytes and B-lymphocytes after vaccination. Therefore, it is possible that a person infected with a disease just before or just after vaccination could develop symptoms and get a disease, because the vaccine has not had enough time to provide protection."

 

[GenerationX]

They’re proteins, not cells. Your body is making proteins right now. An attenuated virus vaccine is not new and also involves your body making something it then fights.

In what way does an attenuated, inactivated, or subunit vaccine instruct your body to make something it fights? The intruder is in the vaccine, and the body fights it. In mRNA technology, the body is instructed to make the proteins that it then fights.

 

[Chi84]

V1.0.


Studies are much smaller numbers of participants than real world applications.

I'm sorry, but that's just not good enough. As members of society, we have an obligation to act in accordance with the public good. Where COVID is concerned, that means we need to become educated about the virus and the vaccines developed to fight them so we can make informed, intelligent choices that best serve society. It also means that we may need to work to overcome irrational fears.

What I'm seeing here is a wealth of scientific knowledge and experience that has gone into developing vaccines accepted as safe and effective around the world - vs. - "I dunno, six weeks is no good because it's, like, not a long time."

 

[SammyMF]

Anti-vaxer pushers have lied so much in the past that they have no credibility. Its as simple as that. And now, they are getting mad because more and more people are no longer listening as they see hospitals filling up. Eventually, motivated self-interest will determine which is the riskier proposition in the various southern states. Is the vaccine riskier? Or is it covid delta... and whatever new strains that might pop up later?

 

[GenerationX]

I'm sorry, but that's just not good enough. As members of society, we have an obligation to act in accordance with the public good. Where COVID is concerned, that means we need to become educated about the virus and the vaccines developed to fight them so we can make informed, intelligent choices that best serve society. It also means that we may need to work to overcome irrational fears.

What I'm seeing here is a wealth of scientific knowledge and experience that has gone into developing vaccines accepted as safe and effective around the world - vs. - "I dunno, six weeks is no good because it's, like, not a long time."

Give me the Novavax vaccine, and the conversation is over.

 

[lazyboy97o]

In what way does an attenuated, inactivated, or subunit vaccine instruct your body to make something it fights? The intruder is in the vaccine, and the body fights it. In mRNA technology, the body is instructed to make the proteins that it then fights.

How do you think viruses replicate? An attenuated virus is active and replicates. Making some proteins as you do all the time sure sounds better than having cells hijacked and destroyed to make a virus.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The flu is reasonably harmful. In normal years, it kills tens of thousands of people in the US alone. While COVID-19 seems to be more transmissible, the fact that we have effective vaccines (right now) means we could get COVID-19 down to the level of influenza with the necessary vaccination levels. People will still die from it, though… people die from viruses.

Christ…it’s been 18 months!!! Still with this?

Chicago Public Schools just announced vaccine required for all employees!!!....here we go!!!

Overdue

This is one of the things that I don't think people can conceptualize. They say, "it will be like flu." But if you have two diseases of a similar incident rate, where once was one, you've doubled the strain on the system. Hospitals, doctors, kids out sick (and parents who have to take PTO to care for them) etc. It won't be as smooth of a situation as people assume.

I don’t know what Star Trek issue language we need to use to get basic stuff like this across to the holdouts? It surely isn’t Vulcan.

Not surprised. They basically asked for it to be this way.

Who asked? Morons who didn’t get vaccinated? Yes…yes they did insist it be this way.

I'm influenced by the disturbing news about the recent Carnival cruise ship at Belize. 27 persons ( 26 crew, 1 guest ) who have been previously vaccinated tested positive for covid and are in quarantine on the ship. Won't be seeing me set foot on a cruise ship in the distant future.

Cruise ships are heading to port (for dry dock)…that part is inevitable now

I certainly hope this graph is right. We are scheduled to start our anniversary trip on September 17th. My wife is concerned about the latest increase in cases but just had an antibody test to see if she still has antibodies. She was completely vaccinated in February and fortunately she has them. Taking this a step forward, my biggest complaint in the testing protocols is that no one is automatically tested to see if they have antibodies. However, the state of NY is still asking everyone to take the Covid19 test, even if they were vaccinated. WRONG, EVERYONE SHOULD BE TESTED FOR ANTIBODIES.

…as long as we all can rest easy that you’re being taken care of

you know antibodies dissipate, correct? So requiring mass antibody testing doesn’t actually prove anything.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm sorry, but that's just not good enough. As members of society, we have an obligation to act in accordance with the public good. Where COVID is concerned, that means we need to become educated about the virus and the vaccines developed to fight them so we can make informed, intelligent choices that best serve society. It also means that we may need to work to overcome irrational fears.

What I'm seeing here is a wealth of scientific knowledge and experience that has gone into developing vaccines accepted as safe and effective around the world - vs. - "I dunno, six weeks is no good because it's, like, not a long time."

Of all people…Schwarzenegger might have made the best statement of this whole thing…

in regards to rules and vaccines:

“screw your freedom. Freedom comes at a price…we have a responsibility to not hurt other people or the freedom goes away. Masks and vaccines are like traffic lights. They’re there to protect you from inadvertently killing someone else. This is no different. No one says “why do I have to stop at this red light?”

I mean…if the terminator is more practical than 40% of the population…we have some serious going down here…

 

[Jenny72]

You can really see how people prefer known dangers (even if they are quite bad) to unknown ones (even if they are incredibly unlikely). We know what the possible "what ifs" are with Covid, including death, ED, neurological damage, heart damage, lung damage, mental issues, and more. We know this because we've seen many, many cases where this has occurred. Compare that to the imagined "what ifs" of a vaccine: something unknown could happen after some unknown number of years that hasn't happened yet.

That's why no matter how many clarifications are made about the safety of the vaccines, it won't help. There's always some imagined possibility, and nothing can reach that. I think we sometimes have to override the part of the brain that says, "yeah, but at least I know what a virus is, and I don't really understand this vaccine". It's impossible to fight an imaginary enemy.

Honestly, I don't really understand the vaccines. But both the known bad things about Covid and the possible unknown bad things about Covid (future dementia?) convinced me that these vaccines would have to be pretty dang terrible on a pretty widespread scale to be worse than Covid, and there's just no evidence for it. I think this is a better approach to making a reasoned choice than to try to fight with the part of the brain that demands certainty.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Let’s say the vaccine skeptics are smarter then almost every scientist and doctor in the world. Let’s say the vaccines cause death or infertility after five years through some mechanism no one can define. If that’s true, society is already over. This is the apocalypse. Are the skeptics really eager to wander around a Cormac McCarthy style wasteland?

Also, I missed it… why are we also skeptical of J&J?

 

[Lilofan]

Let’s say the vaccine skeptics are smarter then almost every scientist and doctor in the world. Let’s say the vaccines cause death or infertility after five years through some mechanism no one can define. If that’s true, society is already over. This is the apocalypse. Are the skeptics really eager to wander around a Cormac McCarthy style wasteland?

Also, I missed it… why are we also skeptical of J&J?

Vaccine skeptics are just that. Some may feel that they are being hit all over with factual information. Some may be unhappy on what happened in change of leadership of our country. Some may still believe in the that freedom, rights, liberty, their gut feeling etc. What may change their mind is when the virus affects a loved one, friend, neighbor or even themselves or when they seek medical attention they see up close what the hospitals are dealing with with little or no room at the inn. Skeptics do also get their minds caught up in conspiracy theories. As I see it there is little sympathy for these skeptics. They are playing Russian roulette with their lives and overloading our health care system.

 

[SammyMF]

Its funny how many risks people will take with their lives every single day but a shot in the arm is too much. Your chance of dying in a car crash is much much higher than dying from a covid shot reaction. And of course nobody ever thinks they are going to get into a car crash. Including the idiots doing 80 in a 65 zone during traffic time. Then again they buy car insurance anyway.

 

[Lilofan]

Its funny how many risks people will take with their lives every single day but a shot in the arm is too much. Your chance of dying in a car crash is much much higher than dying from a covid shot reaction. And of course nobody ever thinks they are going to get into a car crash. Including the idiots doing 80 in a 65 zone during traffic time. Then again they buy car insurance anyway.

Penalizing anti vaxxers in their health insurance might be going too far as some in media have suggested but I'm all for penalizing idiots on the road for speeding, causing crashes , unsafe driving. Let them get points, tickets, higher insurance rates, and jail time.

 

[LaughingGravy]

Vaccine skeptics are just that. Some may feel that they are being hit all over with factual information. Some may be unhappy on what happened in change of leadership of our country. Some may still believe in the that freedom, rights, liberty, their gut feeling etc. What may change their mind is when the virus affects a loved one, friend, neighbor or even themselves or when they seek medical attention they see up close what the hospitals are dealing with with little or no room at the inn. Skeptics do also get their minds caught up in conspiracy theories. As I see it there is little sympathy for these skeptics. They are playing Russian roulette with their lives and overloading our health care system.

The tiny bit of good news is that there are quite a lot of documented cases where one person in the family did get Covid, and as a result, other members of their families have gotten vaccinated, so there is absolute proof that helps to motivate, even though in a lot of those cases the Covid person is very permanently affected.

 

[LaughingGravy]

Penalizing anti vaxxers in their health insurance might be going too far as some in media have suggested but I'm all for penalizing idiots on the road for speeding, causing crashes , unsafe driving. Let them get points, tickets, higher insurance rates, and jail time.

I am pretty sure the health insurers would be happy to be on the side of not having to pay for anti vaxxer long term and short term care.
Oh, without a medical excuse you are refusing a preemptive safe and free vaccine that if you caught Covid could cost us (our shareholders and others paying premiums) for the rest of your life, or if your life is shortened considerably or not the $$$$$ ICU daily cost?
I think the lobbyists (which is why we still have HMOs, etc. able to deny so many things and yet invest in hedge funds and pay their CEOs millions) would be OK with that.