Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyDebRob]

That’s child abuse if you ask me.

Any religion or organization that lets a child or because of disinformation,a adult, go without care should be brought to justice for abuse.
The weird thing about it is that it’s really not brought to light until someone dies.. then you find out they don’t believe in medicine because the magic vegetable that they are waving above him will heal all.. or if it’s their time to die then it’s their time. It’s a disgrace and any law abiding country should not let it happen.
Sorry for the rant.. just one of those things that trigger me. Beliefs of whatever religion you decide to believe in should not take precedent over the health of individuals. Ok, back to COVID.. delete if necessary.

 

[correcaminos]

Yup. I have an elderly family member who grew up Christian Scientist. She refuses the vaccine. So we just don’t see her until DD has a chance to get vaccinated. She doesn’t like that, but it’s her choice

I respect a whole lot of things in life and try to reason with people, but this one I struggle with. I mean I never judged my friend as a kid of course (not their fault) but even as a 'faithful' person, I never understood it. I figured we were given the brains to help heal us, why wouldn't we use what we learned?

That’s child abuse if you ask me.

My friend's arm was set and put in a cast, but that was it. As I said I really struggle with this one. I do believe at times it leads to abuse for sure.

Any religion or organization that lets a child or because of disinformation,a adult, go without care should be brought to justice for abuse.
The weird thing about it is that it’s really not brought to light until someone dies.. then you find out they don’t believe in medicine because the magic vegetable that they are waving above him will heal all.. or if it’s their time to die then it’s their time. It’s a disgrace and any law abiding country should not let it happen.
Sorry for the rant.. just one of those things that trigger me. Beliefs of whatever religion you decide to believe in should not take precedent over the health of individuals. Ok, back to COVID.. delete if necessary.

There are quite a few stories out there where parents are fought or charges are brought on parents. I find it gross really and as I get older I'm more inclined to put them with Scientologists who don't officially have a stance but a lot of famous Scientologists are anti-vax too. Not trying to cause problems, but geez it gets me too.

 

[DisneyCane]

Yup. I have an elderly family member who grew up Christian Scientist. She refuses the vaccine. So we just don’t see her until DD has a chance to get vaccinated. She doesn’t like that, but it’s her choice

I guess the name Christian Scientist creates a bit of an oxymoron with respect to refusing medical science!

 

[TheGuyThatMakesSwords]

What I never see, and WANT to see...
Weekly cases for FULLY VACCINATED people. Anyone got a lead on this?

 

[AEfx]

What I never see, and WANT to see...
Weekly cases for FULLY VACCINATED people. Anyone got a lead on this?

Apparently, it's none of our business, and we shouldn't be asking that question.

That's what the White House is telling journalists, at least.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Apparently, it's none of our business, and we shouldn't be asking that question.

That's what the White House is telling journalists, at least.

It's classified.

 

[jmp85]

Checking in on this thread for the first time in a month like...

 

[ImperfectPixie]

What I never see, and WANT to see...
Weekly cases for FULLY VACCINATED people. Anyone got a lead on this?

Apparently, it's none of our business, and we shouldn't be asking that question.

That's what the White House is telling journalists, at least.

Where most who are vaccinated and become infected are either asymptomatic or would think they have a cold, there's really no way to track these because they likely wouldn't be tested.

As far as the WH goes...I'm not sure why you're surprised at this...there's no reason to give opposition information that they can warp and use against the vaccines.

 

[AEfx]

As far as the WH goes...I'm not sure why you're surprised at this...there's no reason to give opposition information that they can warp and use against the vaccines.

There is a very good reason - because it just makes everyone more suspicious of them. The fact that they are pointedly dodging the question, and no one wants to talk about it, makes me personally trust them even less.

I'm not willing to pretend facts and truths don't exist because they are inconvenient to the party line.

 

[hopemax]

I understand how it is calculated from the studies. My question is does it translate to each vaccinated person is protected 90% of the time (I'm just using 90% as an example) or 90% of vaccinated people are protected 100% of the time. The discussion early yesterday was saying that if you are vaccinated, the more exposure you get, the higher likelihood that you get infected and/or get a severe case. I'm not sure if that is true and am thinking that if you are an individual that the vaccine "works" on, it won't matter how much you are exposed, you either won't get infected or your case will not be severe.

That's not how it works with other viruses. Even when your immune system knows what to do, like via vaccination or previous infection, if the viral exposure is high enough it can still overwhelm your body's ability to put up a sufficient response. Additionally, if your immune system is off its game (fighting off another infections/injuries, autoimmune conditions, medications, stress, insufficient rest, etc) then the threshold for a sufficiently high exposure changes. At the boundary, you can end up on either side of the line; given the right conditions. As someone with an autoimmune condition, I have seen this first hand with other viruses. If I am having a flare, I can get sicker with colds than when I am not. Recovery is different.

IMO, this is one of those factors that, in the rush to reassure people about the benefits of vaccination, is not being explained well enough. Virologists, I think assume it's general knowledge and they are focusing on other things. Not realizing how much people are eager to subject themselves to many exposures. People will get infected, test positive, and others will wonder why it's so many. It won't be because the vaccine didn't work, but because of the frequency and intensity of the exposures. It is mentioned in these NY Times articles, but not really explained.

Sorry about the paywall, if you quickly switch to airplane mode you can read the articles.

"Being fully vaccinated remains the strongest protection against Covid-19, but risk is cumulative. The more opportunities you give the virus to challenge the antibodies you’ve built up from your vaccine, the higher your risk of coming into contact with a large enough exposure that the virus will break through the protective barrier generated by your vaccine."

Should Vaccinated People Start Wearing Masks Again?

With daily reports of breakthrough infections and the rise of the Delta variant, vaccinated people may need to take a few more precautions. Here’s what you need to know.

www.nytimes.com

"Dose also matters: A vaccinated person exposed to a low dose of the coronavirus may never become infected, or not noticeably so. A vaccinated person exposed to extremely high viral loads of the Delta variant is more likely to find his or her immune defenses overwhelmed. The problem grows worse as community transmission rates rise, because exposures in dose and number will increase. "

Why Vaccinated People Are Getting ‘Breakthrough’ Infections (Published 2021)

The vaccines are effective at preventing serious illness and death, but they are not a golden shield against the coronavirus.

www.nytimes.com

 

[tpoly88]

The UK spike happened quicker and seems to already be in decline.

Hopfully the Florida spike follows suit, and is over by the middle of August.

The numbers are hard to follow in one sense. They are not giving the information of who is getting covid (age group), who is dying from covid (age group, vaccinated yer or no), the people that are vaccinated and getting covid which shot did they get and what were the symptoms? my wife and i had covid a couple weeks back (we both had the J&J shot that they now say is only 30% effective against the Delta) and at first i had a little cough then got tested positive and was bad for one day, the Dr testing me wanted me to get the infusion and Remdesivir (you have to go to the hospital and you are technically admitted even though its only for 5 hrs), plus my insurance was not going to cover a lot of it was going to be a $15,000 afternoon. called my dr and he said with my diabetes and heart issue do not get the infusion, he gave me Ivermectin and doxycillin and all was gone in 48-72hrs. cost $14...(ill probably get canceled for sharing this). bottom line if your nervous about getting the virus wear a mask and get the shot, i feel it helped me and my wife not have serious symptoms.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

The numbers are hard to follow in one sense. They are not giving the information of who is getting covid (age group), who is dying from covid (age group, vaccinated yer or no), the people that are vaccinated and getting covid which shot did they get and what were the symptoms? my wife and i had covid a couple weeks back (we both had the J&J shot that they now say is only 30% effective against the Delta) and at first i had a little cough then got tested positive and was bad for one day, the Dr testing me wanted me to get the infusion and Remdesivir (you have to go to the hospital and you are technically admitted even though its only for 5 hrs), plus my insurance was not going to cover a lot of it was going to be a $15,000 afternoon. called my dr and he said with my diabetes and heart issue do not get the infusion, he gave me Ivermectin and doxycillin and all was gone in 48-72hrs. cost $14...(ill probably get canceled for sharing this). bottom line if your nervous about getting the virus wear a mask and get the shot, i feel it helped me and my wife not have serious symptoms.

The difference between you and the people everyone is complaining about is that 1) you got vaccinated, and 2) your doctor prescribed you ivermectin because you were already infected with covid.

You aren't pushing misinformation about the vaccines...you are advocating for people getting them. You also aren't pushing people to take something off-label as a means of prevention.

 

[Polkadotdress]

What I never see, and WANT to see...
Weekly cases for FULLY VACCINATED people. Anyone got a lead on this?

The CDC doesn’t track cases for vaxx’d and only keeps tallies for those hospitalized (or died).

 

[Jedijax719]

What absolutely SUCKS is that unvaccinated people who are allowing the virus to continue circulation and transmission are also allowing it to mutate. Thus (here's what sucks the most), those who CANNOT get vaccinated are even more vulnerable than before, in many ways. Less masks and those who are unvaccinated are more likely not to wear masks.

And her is the part that REALLY stings. Children under 12 do not have the opportunity to get vaccinated yet. During the summer, parents/families that were vaccinated and were careful about who they were around were protecting their children. .With almost all schools going full in-person (especially in regions with the lowest vaccination rates). those children will be among the most vulnerable. So, to make a long story short, those refusing to get vaccinated while still moving around society in a haphazard fashion, are putting kids at risk and could be the culprits behind potential rapid spread in schools this fall.

 

[GoofGoof]

Of the 30% of adults currently not vaccinated just 20% say they probably/definitely will get the shot so 80% say they will likely not get it. So that’s roughly and additional 6% of adults which would max us out around 75%. I think that’s the best we will see in the US. No idea if that’s enough. On the delta variant front almost 2/3 of unvaccinated people don’t believe the vaccines work against variants. It is too bad the media and people in general have been so quick to latch onto these stories that question whether the vaccines work. Whether people realize it or not this is adding to the problem.

AP-NORC poll: Most unvaccinated Americans don't want shots

Most Americans who haven’t been vaccinated against COVID-19 say they are unlikely to get the shots and doubt they would work against the aggressive delta variant despite evidence they do, according to a new poll that underscores the challenges facing public health officials amid soaring...

www.yahoo.com

 

[AEfx]

It is too bad the media and people in general have been so quick to latch onto these stories that question whether the vaccines work. Whether people realize it or not this is adding to the problem.

Yes, we should only have State Approved media, that does not allow questioning or the presentation of any data that would suggest anything other than perfect 100% effectiveness of the vaccines as a virtual impenetrable shield, we must not allow people any unapproved thoughts, and we mustn't let reality or any inconvenient truths get in the way of the sanctioned narrative.

What some of you don't seem to get is that what you are suggesting is even more dangerous - because you are making people like me, who believe the vaccines are very effective, but accept the reality that they are 100% nothing, doubt and suspect the truthfulness of the information presented even more.

So in fact, what all this "shhhhh! we can't talk about that" stuff is doing is creating more skeptics, not less. The fact that the White House is being so cagey, so defensive about this topic sets off major alarm bells in my head - and it makes me believe the percentage of breakthroughs must be stratospheric, because if they were not - they wouldn't be gaslighting us into thinking the question is irrelevant.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Yes, we should only have State Approved media, that does not allow questioning or the presentation of any data that would suggest anything other than perfect 100% effectiveness of the vaccines as a virtual impenetrable shield, we must not allow people any unapproved thoughts, and we mustn't let reality or any inconvenient truths get in the way of the sanctioned narrative.

What some of you don't seem to get is that what you are suggesting is even more dangerous - because you are making people like me, who believe the vaccines are very effective, but accept the reality that they are 100% nothing, doubt and suspect the truthfulness of the information presented even more.

So in fact, what all this "shhhhh! we can't talk about that" stuff is doing is creating more skeptics, not less. The fact that the White House is being so cagey, so defensive about this topic sets off major alarm bells in my head - and it makes me believe the percentage of breakthroughs must be stratospheric, because if they were not - they wouldn't be gaslighting us into thinking the question is irrelevant.

You have to remember that they're dealing with a massive disinformation campaign designed to stop people from wanting the vaccine.

• Politicians are holding rallies and ridiculing the vaccines and telling their supporters not to get them.
• Particular media outlets are telling people not to get them.
• Certain talking heads are telling people not to get them.

Then there's the misinformed in Hollywood and elsewhere who have loud voices that are also doing their followers a disservice by telling them not to get them. (They're not part of the above list, as they aren't doing it for monetary gain or votes.)

 

[AEfx]

You have to remember that they're dealing with a massive campaign designed to stop people from wanting the vaccine.

I understand that - and what I am trying to explain is that they are pushing more people toward skepticism with their behavior than not.

Less face it, skeptics are already skeptics - what level of skepticism they have is pretty irrelevant in this case - they are already in that group, and will seek out information to reaffirm it no matter if the White House is truthful or not.

What the White House is doing right now is creating INCREASING distrust and creating MORE skeptics. My trust level in them on this has gone down quite a bit this past week, and it wasn't amazingly high to begin with.

Basically, what you guys are saying is "It's ok to hide the truth and just tell people what you want them to believe in order to manipulate them them to do what you want them to do". That is not OK. And frankly, both sides of the political spectrum should know by now - it also doesn't work. It's the reason that so many people have a strong distrust of the medical/pharma community to begin with - and all this does is make that distrust grow exponentially.

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

The difference between you and the people everyone is complaining about is that 1) you got vaccinated, and 2) your doctor prescribed you ivermectin because you were already infected with covid.

You aren't pushing misinformation about the vaccines...you are advocating for people getting them. You also aren't pushing people to take something off-label as a means of prevention.

Vaccine? Damit, I was promised nanobots!

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I understand that - and what I am trying to explain is that they are pushing more people toward skepticism with their behavior than not.

Less face it, skeptics are already skeptics - what level of skepticism they have is pretty irrelevant in this case - they are already in that group, and will seek out information to reaffirm it no matter if the White House is truthful or not.

What the White House is doing right now is creating INCREASING distrust and creating MORE skeptics. My trust level in them on this has gone down quite a bit this past week, and it wasn't amazingly high to begin with.

Basically, what you guys are saying is "It's ok to hide the truth and just tell people what you want them to believe in order to manipulate them them to do what you want them to do". That is not OK. And frankly, both sides of the political spectrum should know by now - it also doesn't work. It's the reason that so many people have a strong distrust of the medical/pharma community to begin with - and all this does is make that distrust grow exponentially.

I'm not saying that at all. I wish they could be 100% honest without someone waiting in the wings to twist the information to the point where it's unrecognizable...but there are people doing exactly that...and they're making this whole ordeal way worse and way harder than it needs to be. I don't envy anyone in this administration and the mess they're dealing with.