Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Jrb1979]

The fact is the best you can do is get vaccinated and encourage those around you that will actually listen to you to go in. That’s about it. I live in PA where 78% of adults are vaccinated and I have my shots. Someone who lives in Mississippi where 48% of adults are vaccinated that has their own vaccine done has done just as much as I have. It’s not their fault that others around them are not vaccinated. I don’t get this attitude that if someone is from an area with high vaccination they have somehow “done better” than someone who lives in a less vaccinated area. I just consider myself lucky to live in an area with a high level of vaccination since my youngest isn’t eligible yet. All we control is our own actions and maybe our kids.

I disagree and I do feel we have done better. I know you only control your own actions. My issue has always been with the way the CDC and leadership has handled this.

You know what I'm tired of? People blaming the CDC on this. They are very clear on their guidelines. Our policy makers screwed it up by not making unvaccinated still mask.

Ii do agree somewhat but they knew businesses and policy makers weren't going to do anything about that. IMO the message should have been masks stay in place til a high percentage is vaccinated.

 

[correcaminos]

The fact is the best you can do is get vaccinated and encourage those around you that will actually listen to you to go in. That’s about it. I live in PA where 78% of adults are vaccinated and I have my shots. Someone who lives in Mississippi where 48% of adults are vaccinated that has their own vaccine done has done just as much as I have. It’s not their fault that others around them are not vaccinated. I don’t get this attitude that if someone is from an area with high vaccination they have somehow “done better” than someone who lives in a less vaccinated area. I just consider myself lucky to live in an area with a high level of vaccination since my youngest isn’t eligible yet. All we control is our own actions and maybe our kids.

I don't live in a great state for vaccination rates. I'm sure many here have seen enough to know I've tried my best to do what's right and help people get vaccinated. So no way I'd blame others who tried their best but still live in low vax locations. The whole thing really stinks though. I don't know what else to do. I keep trying to push others I know, but I can only go so far.

I disagree and I do feel we have done better. I know you only control your own actions. My issue has always been with the way the CDC and leadership has handled this.


Ii do agree somewhat but they knew businesses and policy makers weren't going to do anything about that. IMO the message should have been masks stay in place til a high percentage is vaccinated.

So what, we aren't supposed to allow vaccinated to ever unmask in some areas? No sorry this is not at all on the CDC at all. All on policy makers. They failed us miserably. Some from long before vaccines were in the works.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I don't live in a great state for vaccination rates. I'm sure many here have seen enough to know I've tried my best to do what's right and help people get vaccinated. So no way I'd blame others who tried their best but still live in low vax locations. The whole thing really stinks though. I don't know what else to do. I keep trying to push others I know, but I can only go so far.

Not only that, but sometimes just talking about the facts in regards the vaccine is enough to make people cut you off completely. (Speaking from experience.)

 

[Jrb1979]

So what, we aren't supposed to allow vaccinated to ever unmask in some areas? No sorry this is not at all on the CDC at all. All on policy makers. They failed us miserably. Some from long before vaccines were in the works.

I didn't say that. Vaccinated people here still have to mask til we hit 80% first dose and 70% fully vaccinated. It can be done.

I still say the CDC knew that enforcement of mask wearing for the unvaccinated was not going to happen in many places.

It saddens me that you have Covid rising in a lot of places and nobody in power wants to do anything about it. Are they pretending it's over?

 

[correcaminos]

Not only that, but sometimes just talking about the facts in regards the vaccine is enough to make people cut you off completely. (Speaking from experience.)

Or bite your head off so to speak. I've been dealing with some crazy responses for a year now...

One guy who works in a volunteer position in the same group I volunteer with has spouted some craaaaazy crap to me. Telling me how I am wrong, never should have done the trial, and now that vaccines are found to work well, claims it's all about money. That the CDC and WHO or someone leaked we'll be needing boosters every 90 days. Just wait and see.... said it on a zoom meeting after I said I got the third dose too. I just countered that it took them 10 months to get to me for a booster... not so sure. Seriously insane. My husband met this person's spouse and apparently they're totally normal and was for mask mandates and vaccines. Must suck to live with a crazy like that.

I even tried to google for similar conspiracies but couldn't find it.

Most are not that crazy though...

 

[correcaminos]

I didn't say that. Vaccinated people here still have to mask til we hit 80% first dose and 70% fully vaccinated. It can be done.

I still say the CDC knew that enforcement of mask wearing for the unvaccinated was not going to happen in many places.

It saddens me that you have Covid rising in a lot of places and nobody in power wants to do anything about it. Are they pretending it's over?

I live in an area where we will not get that level. Ever. Unless forced, which I doubt could happen.

CDC gives guidance for this. Our policy makers use it. Throw blame where it belongs. Discrediting the CDC only helps anti-vaxxers whether you realize it or not

 

[GoofGoof]

I don’t even know if I trust full FDA approval doing anything for these people.

They’ll just say “the FDA is in on it”.

Sure give them a shot, see if it helps.

But if it doesn’t, Don’t even use cards. Have a full digital system with government verification, QR code, scanners. Make life challenging.

That can’t happen in the US now. There is no Federal database of vaccine status. When NY and CA implemented vaccine passports for limited events like sports stadiums they were using the NY and CA state databases. Each state would have to agree to supply data to a centralized source which will never happen. The gov of FL for example has already banned the state agencies from sharing any vaccination status with anyone.

FDA approval may help a little. We still have people who plan to get the vaccine but are nervous it isn’t safe. Not political resistance, they just don’t trust it. Full FDA approval could help with some. It also allows businesses and schools a clearer path to mandating vaccines for employees or students. It’s not a game changer but we are trying to get from 69% to 75% so every extra person is a positive step.

 

[GoofGoof]

I disagree and I do feel we have done better. I know you only control your own actions. My issue has always been with the way the CDC and leadership has handled this.

What have you personally done differently than me? I just don’t see it. I have no more control over someone in Missouri getting vaccinated than you do. How did you do better? You can certainly argue the government has done better but I have a hard time giving credit or blame to individuals.

 

[LaughingGravy]

They have some of the better rides for a Six Flags park.

Six Flags New England- Front seats of the Superman/Bizarro coaster are AWESOME. They also have a really nice little skyway with round pods.

 

[DisneyCane]

I'm actually not saying we as a nation shouldn't help non-vaccinated marginalized people. Not even close. My point was in terms of numbers, non-vaccinated Blacks aren't the biggest population - again in terms of just flat out numbers and percent of the population - of not vaccinating. We also will have different issues to help overcome, which needs to be addressed in different ways. Same for all Latinos and such who are not vaccinating.

So please do not take my comment the way you did as that sure wasn't my point. This specific population of unvaccinated are a whole other type of hesitant than others who are truly anti-vax against covid only.

I certainly didn't think you were saying that. I was just saying that I think it is more important to try and target that community vs. rural white people due to the other factors which lead to the very disproportionate COVID outcomes for those communities which are resistant for very different reasons (as you educated me about a while back).

 

[Jrb1979]

What have you personally done differently than me? I just don’t see it. I have no more control over someone in Missouri getting vaccinated than you do. How did you do better? You can certainly argue the government has done better but I have a hard time giving credit or blame to individuals.

I've not giving blame to individuals. My blame has always been on those in charge. I always thought once the election was done things would be better. Nothing changed.

Cause I'm in a different country where from the top down they have been pushing vaccines and keeping mandates in place til we hit a certain percentage it's hard for me to understand what's going on in the US.

Maybe I'm wrong about this but in my eyes it feels like in the majority of the US the answer to Cover is "here's the vaccine, you figure it out".

While each province here does its own thing, for the most part they all worked together to get a high percentage vaccinated.

From an outsider, it baffles me that for something that affects the entire country that nobody wants to work together to get through this. Just having the vaccines available doesn't work.

 

[DisneyFan32]

That can’t happen in the US now. There is no Federal database of vaccine status. When NY and CA implemented vaccine passports for limited events like sports stadiums they were using the NY and CA state databases. Each state would have to agree to supply data to a centralized source which will never happen. The gov of FL for example has already banned the state agencies from sharing any vaccination status with anyone.

FDA approval may help a little. We still have people who plan to get the vaccine but are nervous it isn’t safe. Not political resistance, they just don’t trust it. Full FDA approval could help with some. It also allows businesses and schools a clearer path to mandating vaccines for employees or students. It’s not a game changer but we are trying to get from 69% to 75% so every extra person is a positive step.

I expect NJ Transit, Amtrak and MTA will start lose indoor masks for trains and buses by September 13th as Federal Mandate lifts indoor masks in NJ, NY and PA. @GoofGoof

 

[DisneyCane]

They used matches controls. That works just as well.

Unless you're of the opinion that only slower people get Covid...

It's possible that slower people would be more likely to put themselves in high risk situations. You never know!

 

[DisneyCane]

It has been explained again and again, that it isn't calculated like that. It is a comparison between the number of infections between an unvaccinated group and a vaccinated group.

If you have 1000 unvaccinated people and you find that 200 got infected, a 90% efficacy means that out of a similar group of 1000 vaccinated people you would expect 20 of them to get infected. Engaging in high risk behavior, or a more transmissible variant increases the incidents of infections. So 1000 unvaccinated people engaging in this scenario might lead to 500 infections. Then a 90% reduction would mean you would expect 50 infections in vaccinated people in a similar environment.

EDIT: And I'll add, that while I used infection in the example above, when we are talking about the COVID vaccines, we're usually talking efficacy versus severe outcomes. Versus avoiding infection entirely or symptomatic infection, we should expect it to be lower. How much lower we'll find out as these next waves blow through. The Israel study from today, is not promising. Singapore study had it 70% vs any infection, and 80-90% against symptomatic infection. The US should be revealing since it will be more of a baseline, since the US is essentially down to vaccines and not vaccines + other types of mitigation.

I understand how it is calculated from the studies. My question is does it translate to each vaccinated person is protected 90% of the time (I'm just using 90% as an example) or 90% of vaccinated people are protected 100% of the time. The discussion early yesterday was saying that if you are vaccinated, the more exposure you get, the higher likelihood that you get infected and/or get a severe case. I'm not sure if that is true and am thinking that if you are an individual that the vaccine "works" on, it won't matter how much you are exposed, you either won't get infected or your case will not be severe.

 

[correcaminos]

I certainly didn't think you were saying that. I was just saying that I think it is more important to try and target that community vs. rural white people due to the other factors which lead to the very disproportionate COVID outcomes for those communities which are resistant for very different reasons (as you educated me about a while back).

Ah my mistake for misunderstanding the point of the post. I do agree, we need to target them to try to help. My gut is that we'll need fellow respected marginalized people to do it though. Telling white people to talk to them won't help much.

We do need to target all who are not vaccinated to get it, but how for each individual is much harder. I'm all for throwing money at people though.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I've not giving blame to individuals. My blame has always been on those in charge. I always thought once the election was done things would be better. Nothing changed.

Cause I'm in a different country where from the top down they have been pushing vaccines and keeping mandates in place til we hit a certain percentage it's hard for me to understand what's going on in the US.

Maybe I'm wrong about this but in my eyes it feels like in the majority of the US the answer to Cover is "here's the vaccine, you figure it out".

While each province here does its own thing, for the most part they all worked together to get a high percentage vaccinated.

From an outsider, it baffles me that for something that affects the entire country that nobody wants to work together to get through this. Just having the vaccines available doesn't work.

Things did get better...in a lot of ways...but the damage was already done, and much of it is irreversible.

 

[Virtual Toad]

We’re totally beyond frustrated living in Florida. As a fully vaccinated family we would gladly return to mandatory mask wearing if it forced the unvaccinated to do the same. Then maybe the vax numbers would rise. Or at the very least we’d be doing something to try to stem the deluge of cases we’re experiencing.

 

[DisneyCane]

We’re totally beyond frustrated living in Florida. As a fully vaccinated family we would gladly return to mandatory mask wearing if it forced the unvaccinated to do the same. Then maybe the vax numbers would rise. Or at the very least we’d be doing something to try to stem the deluge of cases we’re experiencing.

I would not gladly return to mask wearing as a fully vaccinated person. If the vax numbers don't rise in response to the increase in "cases" they aren't going to rise due to mask wearing. If the vast, vast majority of cases and almost all severe cases are unvaccinated people, I'm not gladly doing anything to protect people who choose not to get vaccinated.

Does anybody have the LA county data to see what the effect of reinstituting an indoor mask mandate has had on case numbers?

 

[correcaminos]

We’re totally beyond frustrated living in Florida. As a fully vaccinated family we would gladly return to mandatory mask wearing if it forced the unvaccinated to do the same. Then maybe the vax numbers would rise. Or at the very least we’d be doing something to try to stem the deluge of cases we’re experiencing.

I wouldn't gladly, though I will (as always) do what ever is needed.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I would not gladly return to mask wearing as a fully vaccinated person. If the vax numbers don't rise in response to the increase in "cases" they aren't going to rise due to mask wearing. If the vast, vast majority of cases and almost all severe cases are unvaccinated people, I'm not gladly doing anything to protect people who choose not to get vaccinated.

Does anybody have the LA county data to see what the effect of reinstituting an indoor mask mandate has had on case numbers?

That's the thing though...forcing mask wearing affects those refusing to vaccinate directly, and they don't like that.