Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Trauma]

The UK had the highest case numbers in the world last week. That's horrific on all terms.

Figure out how many people in your country have not had covid or been vaccinated.

That’s how many case numbers you should expect to see over the course of time, if not more.

We are not eradicating the corona virus it is here to stay.

 

[KrzyKtty]

Look, at the end of the day we are all just along for the ride. Do your part, protect your family, get those you can vaccinated. Write your senators if you feel so inclined, write your congressman. Do it for the state and the federal. Wear your masks if you feel like you should. But the constant doom and gloom and numbers aren't going to solve anything. They're just going to drive everyone completely mad. This is a horrible thing, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's not. But eventually it will end, and everybody just has to hold on as best as they can until then. But analyzing everything until you're blue in the face is just going to drive everyone absolutely mental. Don't make yourself nuts over this.

I'm saying this with the best of intentions as I can. But there seems to be more than just one or two people on this thread who seemed to be stressing over this more than is probably healthy.

 

[Disney Analyst]

 

[Trauma]

Hopefully they recover in time.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Nothing says “fine” like measurable cognitive decline.

 

[DisneyCane]

I can't say one way or another whether or not COVID leads to cognitive issues. What I can say is that if you don't have a baseline test on each individual you can't conclude cognitive decline unless it is very severe.

 

[DisneyCane]

For the national election 12% voted red. So most, 87%, voted blue. Vaccine hesitation has to do with medical inequality issues that Blacks deal with as well as socioeconomic issues that make vaccination hard. A few might be political. However roughly 13.4% of all people in the US are Black. Last I can see 36% of Blacks have been vaccinated. While Blacks need help to vaccinate since they have been disproportionately hit by covid, in terms of total numbers they are a small percentage we need to get through

I would argue that because of the factors that lead to the disproportionate deaths in the black community, it is more important for black people to get vaccinated to offset them. I don't want to see anybody end up dying because they didn't get a safe and free vaccine.

In Florida blacks have only a slightly higher mortality per 100k than whites 167.7 vs. 165.4 likely due to the large population of elderly white people. I would imagine if it was broken down by age and race then the disproportionality would be more obvious.

 

[DisneyCane]

See this is the problem I have with this sensationalism of case numbers. When I look at the death rate it’s not “wrecking” the UK.

Maybe that will change but so far it hasn’t.

The UK had the highest case numbers in the world last week. That's horrific on all terms.

At this point, in places where vaccines are readily available, case numbers don't really matter. What matters is the people who end up hospitalized or dead from COVID.

If 100% of the population gets a cold it doesn't matter. If 10% of the population gets Ebola it is a catastrophe. Degree of illness matters greatly.

 

[DisneyCane]

I was thinking back to a discussion earlier about how protected a vaccinated person is. I have come to the conclusion that when they say a vaccine is 90% effective in preventing infection, it must mean that 90% of the people who have been vaccinated will be protected from infection 100% of the time while the vaccine won't "work" for 10% of the vaccinated people. In the earlier discussion it was implied that a vaccinated person who is exposed to more transmission opportunities becomes more likely to have a breakthrough infection.

The problem is that if you treat each transmission opportunity as an independent event and say that each time there is a 90% chance an infection will be prevented, if you are exposed to 22 transmission opportunities there will be a 90% chance you get infected by one of them. I'm pretty sure I calculated correctly.

I could be thinking about this wrong as I've never previously given any thought to vaccine science or studied it.

 

[LaughingGravy]

I could be thinking about this wrong as I've never previously given any thought to vaccine science or studied it.

3,912 pages of a thread, with 78,235 responses to the original post and I don't know how many responses from you.
I dare say you have at least given it some thought.

 

[DisneyCane]

3,912 pages of a thread, with 78,235 responses to the original post and I don't know how many responses from you.
I dare say you have at least given it some thought.

I meant prior to COVID appearing.

 

[hopemax]

I was thinking back to a discussion earlier about how protected a vaccinated person is. I have come to the conclusion that when they say a vaccine is 90% effective in preventing infection, it must mean that 90% of the people who have been vaccinated will be protected from infection 100% of the time while the vaccine won't "work" for 10% of the vaccinated people. In the earlier discussion it was implied that a vaccinated person who is exposed to more transmission opportunities becomes more likely to have a breakthrough infection.

The problem is that if you treat each transmission opportunity as an independent event and say that each time there is a 90% chance an infection will be prevented, if you are exposed to 22 transmission opportunities there will be a 90% chance you get infected by one of them. I'm pretty sure I calculated correctly.

I could be thinking about this wrong as I've never previously given any thought to vaccine science or studied it.

It has been explained again and again, that it isn't calculated like that. It is a comparison between the number of infections between an unvaccinated group and a vaccinated group.

If you have 1000 unvaccinated people and you find that 200 got infected, a 90% efficacy means that out of a similar group of 1000 vaccinated people you would expect 20 of them to get infected. Engaging in high risk behavior, or a more transmissible variant increases the incidents of infections. So 1000 unvaccinated people engaging in this scenario might lead to 500 infections. Then a 90% reduction would mean you would expect 50 infections in vaccinated people in a similar environment.

EDIT: And I'll add, that while I used infection in the example above, when we are talking about the COVID vaccines, we're usually talking efficacy versus severe outcomes. Versus avoiding infection entirely or symptomatic infection, we should expect it to be lower. How much lower we'll find out as these next waves blow through. The Israel study from today, is not promising. Singapore study had it 70% vs any infection, and 80-90% against symptomatic infection. The US should be revealing since it will be more of a baseline, since the US is essentially down to vaccines and not vaccines + other types of mitigation.

 

[LaughingGravy]

I meant prior to COVID appearing.

OK. IMO, vaccines and how they work should be taught in schools in 5th or 6th grade. In most cases, kids have had vaccines by that point that they remember and that's also when a bunch of other biological things are also taught.

 

[Disney Experience]

I was thinking back to a discussion earlier about how protected a vaccinated person is. I have come to the conclusion that when they say a vaccine is 90% effective in preventing infection, it must mean that 90% of the people who have been vaccinated will be protected from infection 100% of the time while the vaccine won't "work" for 10% of the vaccinated people. In the earlier discussion it was implied that a vaccinated person who is exposed to more transmission opportunities becomes more likely to have a breakthrough infection.

The problem is that if you treat each transmission opportunity as an independent event and say that each time there is a 90% chance an infection will be prevented, if you are exposed to 22 transmission opportunities there will be a 90% chance you get infected by one of them. I'm pretty sure I calculated correctly.

I could be thinking about this wrong as I've never previously given any thought to vaccine science or studied it.

The approximate 90% was from the initial study ( such as I am in ) and later countries like Israel.

They wanted subjects to not know whether they were vaccinated so that they would not modify their life given that knowledge. They also wanted people who were more likely to be exposed .

In a few months they had enough cases to do EUA. Why do I bring it up? That diverse set of people(30000 Pfizer) likely had subjects who had multiple exposures. So the 90% included multiple exposures

Some peoples immune system react differently to the shot. So given the same exposure some vaccinated may get covid another may not.

There are a lot of variables.

 

[LittleBuford]

the numbers you quoted are for symptomatic infection not for hospitalisations

You’re mistaken. From the article:

Between 21 June and 19 July, 1,788 people were admitted to hospital after testing positive for Delta. Of these, 54% were unvaccinated while 30% had received both shots. In total, 3,692 people have so far been admitted to hospital with the Delta variant, of whom 2,152 (58%) were unvaccinated and 843 (23%) were fully vaccinated.​

 

[LittleBuford]

This helps to explain the (seemingly high) number of vaccinated individuals who end up in hospital (though the difference between the US and UK figures is still striking):

Rates of double-jabbed people in hospital will grow – but that does not mean Covid vaccines are failing | Coronavirus | The Guardian

Several factors, including the portion of those at highest risk among the double-vaccinated and antibody levels, account for the data

amp.theguardian.com

 

[lisa12000]

You’re mistaken. From the article:

​

Between 21 June and 19 July, 1,788 people were admitted to hospital after testing positive for Delta. Of these, 54% were unvaccinated while 30% had received both shots. In total, 3,692 people have so far been admitted to hospital with the Delta variant, of whom 2,152 (58%) were unvaccinated and 843 (23%) were fully vaccinated.​

im on about effectiveness of the vaccine

 

[lisa12000]

Just a guess on my part since the study I quoted said they didn’t look at severe illness or hospitalization but efficacy was a lot lower. Something doesn’t add up if the original post I quoted said 30% of hospitalizations in the UK were in fully vaccinated people but then a study is showing the vaccines are still 95% effective at preventing hospitalizations from delta variant. We are not seeing anywhere near 30% of hospitalizations coming from fully vaccinated people in the US.

That is our govt PHE dept so I gave no reason to suggest that they are wrong - the fact is the more people who are vaccinated the more they are going to make up of hospitalisations for major reasons - remember our hospitalisations include people who have gone into hospital for routine treatments/operations and illnesses and have incidentally tested positive - as 70% have been double jabbed the likelihood of those people being vaccinated anyway is higher

 

[Heppenheimer]

I can't say one way or another whether or not COVID leads to cognitive issues. What I can say is that if you don't have a baseline test on each individual you can't conclude cognitive decline unless it is very severe.

They used matches controls. That works just as well.

Unless you're of the opinion that only slower people get Covid...

 

[seascape]

The NY Times reported there were over 81,000 new cases in the US yesterday and over 10,000 in Florida. This is a major problem because we will soon be over 100,000 cases a day. The US is moving in the wrong direction as the same time vaccinations are under 300,000 a day. Who is to blame for this dramatic increase in cases and decrease in vaccinations? Minorities and the young. This is clearly a huge pandemic of the unvaccinated and while many want to blame this on politics it is not the case because the two biggest groups that aren't vaccinated are not in the group being blamed. What needs to be done now is get everyone vaccinated but that is up to us and for those who don't get vaccinated, it is their fault and deserve what happens to them. The taxpayers should not foot their bills caused by their stupidity.

Take the shot or take responsibility. Take the shot or get sick but in no way cause the rest of us our freedoms both financially and socially. We did the right thing and shouldn't be punished for the stupidity of others. Under no circumstances close the economy down again. Maybe, try one last thing and give one last stimulus check to everyone who was vaccinated and those who get fully vaccinated in the next 6 weeks.