Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[BaconPancakes]

Why do we care about the unvaccinated by choice crowd again? They made their beds and now they get to lie in it.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Why do we care about the unvaccinated by choice crowd again? They made their beds and now they get to lie in it.

Because their choices affect the rest of us and children who cannot be vaccinated yet.

 

[carolina_yankee]

Why do we care about the unvaccinated by choice crowd again? They made their beds and now they get to lie in it.

Compassion. Because people are human. Because I have friends and colleagues who are vaccine resistant but I like them and value my relationships with them.

 

[LittleBuford]

Why do we care about the unvaccinated by choice crowd again? They made their beds and now they get to lie in it.

To use your analogy (and illustrate a point that keeps being overlooked), every ICU bed taken up by someone with COVID is an ICU bed that becomes unavailable to others who made need it. What happens to the unvaccinated will inevitably affect society as a whole, which is why, even for purely selfish reasons, we should care about them.

ETA: And what @carolina_yankee and @ImperfectPixie said, of course.

 

[dreday3]

Compassion. Because people are human. Because I have friends and colleagues who are vaccine resistant but I like them and value my relationships with them.

That's so interesting to me.

I have friends that have different viewpoints than me about certain topics, but honestly, vaccine resistance (to the point where they are just completely not listening to reason) is a line drawn in the sand for me at this point. Friends no more. I can't respect their decision, can't respect them.

Thank god most everyone I know is vaccinated.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Why do we care about the unvaccinated by choice crowd again? They made their beds and now they get to lie in it.

You like paying more for healthcare? You like waiting more to see a doctor? You like being cared for in a hospital hallway because the rooms are full? You like having to work extra to cover for someone who is out for two weeks or more?

AdventHealth just announced they are cancelling elective procedures that require admission. Would like having to defer a surgery that will make your life better?

 

[Trauma]

I've stayed out of the school discussions since I don't have kids. But I think with Delta, we've reached the limit of what masks can accomplish, it there are times when kids are unmasked.

As a parent, you want to believe that masking for some period of time helps. But that's not how this should be counted. How many minutes, unmasked, can kids be exposed to Delta and not get infected? Once you go over that number, it doesn't matter what you did the rest of the time. It's not like a credit you can bank. Yes, unmasked you go over that number quicker, but with this, it doesn't matter if you slow walk to the critical moment or run to it. Only avoiding it completely makes the difference. This isn't like a test where getting a 0 and only failing by 1 point means different things in terms of understanding the material. For this, a 0 and failing by 1 point end up in the exact same place...infection.

I'm sorry, but it sounds like parents are trying to bargain their way into or out of which situation sucks more. If I was a parent, I would start from the place that sending a kid to school, especially in areas with low vax rates, means my child will eventually be infected. Then a parent has to decide if that is acceptable or not, and what to do about it if it's unacceptable.

Someone with an education can phrase it much more eloquently than I.

Thank you.

Back to my less eloquent summary.

Your kid is not safe in school.

You can write out your 47 step plan to keep them safe.

This is not the same situation as last year.

Glad school worked out last year.

This is 300% worse.

I understand all this is to keep your kids “more safe”

We need to define what is an acceptable level of safety to begin with.

If “more safe” does not meet the minimum threshold of what we define as safe, that’s a big problem.

This is a confusing sentence for me but I’ll try it.

If we have parents who feel safe sending their kids to school, because they are being “more safe”, when in reality they are not safe, then the level of safety has been obfuscated by the layers of “more safe” mitigation’s, that end up falling short of the end goal.

 

[BaconPancakes]

That's so interesting to me.

I have friends that have different viewpoints than me about certain topics, but honestly, vaccine resistance (to the point where they are just completely not listening to reason) is a line drawn in the sand for me at this point. Friends no more. I can't respect their decision, can't respect them.

Thank god most everyone I know is vaccinated.

Exactly, screw anyone who is “vaccine resistant”. What a nice word for anti vaxxers….

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Someone with an education can phrase it much more eloquently than I.

Thank you.

Back to my less eloquent summary.

Your kid is not safe in school.

You can write out your 47 step plan to keep them safe.

This is not the same situation as last year.

Glad school worked out last year.

This is 300% worse.

I understand all this is to keep your kids “more safe”

We need to define what is an acceptable level of safety to begin with.

If “more safe” does not meet the minimum threshold of what we define as safe, that’s a big problem.

This is a confusing sentence for me but I’ll try it.

If we have parents who feel safe sending their kids to school, because they are being “more safe”, when in reality they are not safe, then the level of safety has been obfuscated by the layers of “more safe” mitigation’s, that end up falling short of the end goal.

So we should all just throw up our hands and give up. Okay.

 

[danlb_2000]

Why do we care about the unvaccinated by choice crowd again? They made their beds and now they get to lie in it.

Because overloaded hospitals are bad for everyone.

 

[KrzyKtty]

Please explain this to me I’m still lost on this thing.

You take 20 people and put them in a room for 5 hours - all masked.

Halfway thru this time together, they all take of their masks for 30 minutes.

Are they protected from transmission?

In my school district's case, they are unmasked most of that time anyway. They don't wear masks at their desks. There are plastic dividers between all of the desks though.

No transmission happened.

And that was much longer than one 15 minute lunch period.

 

[KrzyKtty]

There is also online schooling available if you can’t homeschool your child personally.

Online school is not an option for my daughter. We tried that for about 6 weeks last year and it was a disaster. Take a 2nd grader with ADHD, and that is no path for success. She would have failed, plain and simple.

 

[Trauma]

In my school district's case, they are unmasked most of that time anyway. They don't wear masks at their desks. There are plastic dividers between all of the desks though.

No transmission happened.

And that was much longer than one 15 minute lunch period.

This was during Delta?

 

[KrzyKtty]

This was during the entire last year. My school district never once went full remote. They aren't doing remote at all this year, it was a complete failure state wide. And the Governor pretty much outlawed schools requiring masks by executive order.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

This was during Delta?

What is your end goal?

Do you really think people here aren't scared about Delta and what that means for their children when school resumes in the fall?

At this point it really seems like you're arguing just to argue. No one here has any control over which mitigations will be in effect where they live - they need to work within the confines of the choices presented to them.

You're continued arguing is far from helpful.

 

[KrzyKtty]

I also know that Delta is more transmissible than the strain from last year, but does anyone have viable scientific studies that show it is more deadly to children? Honestly curious, not being sarcastic here.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I also know that Delta is more transmissible than the strain from last year, but does anyone have viable scientific studies that show it is more deadly to children? Honestly curious, not being sarcastic here.

That's a good question. I've not seen any studies, but I have heard anecdotally that more younger people are being hospitalized than expected (but I'm not sure if that includes children).

 

[DCBaker]

 

[hopemax]

If my younger son was able to do remote learning or homeschool, I would absolutely choose one of those options. His autism causes him to need the services provided at school and being in a school environment in order to learn successfully.

Believe me, we are well aware of all of this. I’d love nothing more than to keep her home until she’s vaccinated. Unfortunately for multiple reasons, that’s not an option.

I'm not saying you should or should not pull your kids. My post was more about the emotions that accompany the decision. I'm afraid that parents think "safer" means something more than it does. X being safer than Y means nothing if X is also "not safe enough." So if you believe it is "safe enough" I'd rather people say that instead of safer. "Safe enough" implies a threshold has been crossed that "safer" doesn't. If someone can't say they believe it is "safe enough," then I hope there is at least a mental acknowledgement that a decision is risk/reward based and not safety. It's fine to make risk/reward decisions. It's enough to make a decision on risk/reward. But people seem to feel the need to reassure themselves further by saying it's safer than X. But in the end, if there is an infection, it won't be reassuring at all, and quite possibly distressing if people mislead themselves along the way.

 

[KrzyKtty]

Let me tie in saying that I live in SC, so nothing that I am saying for how my state reacted should be of any surprise. Last year, masks were optional the entire year in my district. They weren't even required on the buss. It was up to the schools to try to enforce what the district would not. By November in the elementary school, over 70% were in person.

Every child in my daughter's class wore a mask until the Governor issued the executive order while they were up and about, but never at their desk. No child in her class ever went into quarantine. No child from her class caught COVID. I don't remember her entire elementary school having a reported case. If a child did, the parent was quite about it.