Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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Trauma

Well-Known Member
danlb_2000 said:
But vaccination doesn't 100% prevent transmission, so you are settling or good enough.
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You have to choose one -

You will be with a group of 5 fully vaccinated people for 1 hour - no masks

You will be with a group of unvaccinated people for 1 hour - masks on

What do you choose?
 
danlb_2000

danlb_2000

Premium Member
Trauma said:
You have to choose one -

You will be with a group of 5 fully vaccinated people for 1 hour - no masks

You will be with a group of unvaccinated people for 1 hour - masks on

What do you choose?
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Obviously the first one, because I think that one is good enough. Of course that has nothing to do with the discussion since the in person/virtual learning debate is much more complicated.
 
Wendy Pleakley

Wendy Pleakley

Well-Known Member
ImperfectPixie said:
The VAST majority of transmissions here were at outside-of-school events. Our district broke down where exposure occurred (in or outside of school), how many from each group tested positive as a result (student or school employee), and how many from each group had to quarantine.

Outside of school transmission was so bad that they had to limit the e-mails to once per week. The majority of transmission was among high school students hanging out after school and on weekends and having parties. There were some transmissions due to after-school sports, but they were relatively few.
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I'm sure I posted this before but we have been told the same, schools themselves are safe. I will say that some of my teacher friends strongly disagree with the assessment, and as always more contagious strains like Delta could change the equation:


"In almost 90 per cent of cases, they acquired their infection outside of the schools, primarily from household contacts," Henry said.

Only 10 per cent of the exposure events led to transmission within the school environment, generally to about one or two people, she added.

"Most transmission events involve staff members to each other. As we know, adults are more likely to transmit this to each other," Henry said.
 
hopemax

hopemax

Well-Known Member
Angel Ariel said:
No one is saying they are “safe.” We are saying schools with masking are “safER” than being in school and fully unmasked all day every day.
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I've stayed out of the school discussions since I don't have kids. But I think with Delta, we've reached the limit of what masks can accomplish, it there are times when kids are unmasked.

As a parent, you want to believe that masking for some period of time helps. But that's not how this should be counted. How many minutes, unmasked, can kids be exposed to Delta and not get infected? Once you go over that number, it doesn't matter what you did the rest of the time. It's not like a credit you can bank. Yes, unmasked you go over that number quicker, but with this, it doesn't matter if you slow walk to the critical moment or run to it. Only avoiding it completely makes the difference. This isn't like a test where getting a 0 and only failing by 1 point means different things in terms of understanding the material. For this, a 0 and failing by 1 point end up in the exact same place...infection.

I'm sorry, but it sounds like parents are trying to bargain their way into or out of which situation sucks more. If I was a parent, I would start from the place that sending a kid to school, especially in areas with low vax rates, means my child will eventually be infected. Then a parent has to decide if that is acceptable or not, and what to do about it if it's unacceptable.
 
correcaminos

correcaminos

Well-Known Member
Trauma said:
For the record my daughter did not attend school
Last year.

Remote learning for her.

I would get the emails every freaking day with how many students tested positive that day.

Don’t tell me schools are safe just because you are wearing a mask.

Sorry I have the emails to prove otherwise.
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Without knowing the set up, sorry to say this is a tad dramatic sounding. We have a fairly large school district and even with lunch thanks to the hybrid schedule and distancing no in school spread was found.
 
T

Trauma

Well-Known Member
danlb_2000 said:
Obviously the first one, because I think that one is good enough. Of course that has nothing to do with the discussion since the in person/virtual learning debate is much more complicated.
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I know it doesn’t.

Just wondering.

I somewhat agree with you.

Non vaccinated kids should have to wear masks at school.

That being said I don’t think that makes them even close to what I would consider safe in the face of Delta.

My daughter is vaccinated.

Her school asked for proof. We provided it.

School told her she does not need to wear a mask.

I told her she can do whatever makes her feel safe.

I guess when she shows up to the first day of school maskless, this forum can add her to the list of evil people trying to kill us all.
 
T

Trauma

Well-Known Member
helenabear said:
Without knowing the set up, sorry to say this is a tad dramatic sounding. We have a fairly large school district and even with lunch thanks to the hybrid schedule and distancing no in school spread was found.
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This letter is to inform you that a student in the Senior class and a student in the Special Education Transition program have tested positive for COVID-19. The building was notified of the positive tests on May 17th. Upon receiving this information, the Administration completed a comprehensive contact tracing investigation in conjunction with the Cook County Health Department. The investigation concluded that the Senior student was last in the building for in-person learning on May 11th. The student in the Transition program was last in the building for in-person learning on May 14th. If you were not directly contacted prior to receiving this notification, you and your student were not part of the defined close contact group with possible exposure. Close contact is defined as being within six feet or less for more than fifteen minutes with someone who is COVID-19 positive.
—————————————————————————-

Would you like me to post the other 80+ emails I have just like this ?
 
ImperfectPixie

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
hopemax said:
I've stayed out of the school discussions since I don't have kids. But I think with Delta, we've reached the limit of what masks can accomplish, it there are times when kids are unmasked.

As a parent, you want to believe that masking for some period of time helps. But that's not how this should be counted. How many minutes, unmasked, can kids be exposed to Delta and not get infected? Once you go over that number, it doesn't matter what you did the rest of the time. It's not like a credit you can bank. Yes, unmasked you go over that number quicker, but with this, it doesn't matter if you slow walk to the critical moment or run to it. Only avoiding it completely makes the difference. This isn't like a test where getting a 0 and only failing by 1 point means different things in terms of understanding the material. For this, a 0 and failing by 1 point end up in the exact same place...infection.

I'm sorry, but it sounds like parents are trying to bargain their way into or out of which situation sucks more. If I was a parent, I would start from the place that sending a kid to school, especially in areas with low vax rates, means my child will eventually be infected. Then a parent has to decide if that is acceptable or not, and what to do about it if it's unacceptable.
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If my younger son was able to do remote learning or homeschool, I would absolutely choose one of those options. His autism causes him to need the services provided at school and being in a school environment in order to learn successfully.
 
M

mmascari

Well-Known Member
Trauma said:
Please explain this to me I’m still lost on this thing.

You take 20 people and put them in a room for 5 hours - all masked.

Halfway thru this time together, they all take of their masks for 30 minutes.

Are they protected from transmission?
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You do different things when they're eating vs when they're doing other activities. There's not one silver bullet, you use the item that's appropriate for the circumstances of the moment.

Trauma said:
I have no idea what happened at your school, but at ours the days where shortened so the kids would not eat lunch at school.

Why?

The school board determined there was NO SAFE WAY to have a lunch period.
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They determined there was no safe way based on all the extra additional restrictions and trade offs they made. It's not an absolute, they just didn't like any of the trade offs.

Trauma said:
Yeah actually it does.

To bad the people in power don’t have the guts to make it happen.
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There's no perfect one to solve them all. Even vaccination for every student. Since, vaccination for every student in every grade level before the school year starts isn't possible. I mean, are we just going to guess at the correct dosage for a few million 4th graders? What about kindergarteners? In a High School, sure that would be the best solution.

Everything is a trade off. Which mitigations do you take in a specific circumstance vs what you're trying to achieve and what you're willing to adjust.

So, for 30 kids in 4th grade you've got a few different time frames.
  1. Transport to/from School
  2. Classroom Learning
  3. Gym
  4. Band/Chorus
  5. Lunch
For 1 and 2, mask them up and pack them in like normal. That's probably a good trade off. Adding distance for 1 destroys capacity faster than it reduces risk. Distance in 2 requires staff faster than reduced risk. Remote learning is really just max distance, to a point where distance itself is now creating its own issues.

For 3, go outside whenever possible. When not possible, ventilate the space and distance. When that's not possible, have health class instead.

For 4, do it outside. Just like Gym. Book leaning when you cannot.

For 5, you've introduced a new requirement. You cannot cover your pie hole and put pie in it at the same time. So, now you're back to ventilation and distance. Put half the kids in the cafeteria, spaced out, with ventilation. The other half in the classroom, now spaced out since there's less of them. Still not enough space, use a gym, auditorium, travel trailers, party tent to create more space. Just because you've eliminated the use of a mask doesn't mean you've eliminated all other mitigation options. They're all just harder than a mask.

When your board determined they couldn't do it, what they really determined is they didn't want to create the space and extra staff required to do it. They correctly determined that packing the normal amount of students into the cafeteria to each lunch was a bad idea.

Even all those different choices also depend on the current level of community spread. If it's low enough locally, then you need less of them. If it's high enough, you need more.

They're all trade offs.

It's just like computer security. You probably do unsafe things all day long. You've determined that the mitigations you're taking are good enough vs the value. Every link you click on could be to a phishing site to steal something. You make a ton of judgements before you click it, your browser too, maybe your home router or work network does. They're all trade offs vs the value you get from opening the web page at that link. If you wanted to be completely secure, 100% safe from a phishing site, you would block all web browsing 100%, completely safe but no value. That's an options for school kids too, stay home on the couch watching TV all day. Not a lot of value from that though.
 
Angel Ariel

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
hopemax said:
I've stayed out of the school discussions since I don't have kids. But I think with Delta, we've reached the limit of what masks can accomplish, it there are times when kids are unmasked.

As a parent, you want to believe that masking for some period of time helps. But that's not how this should be counted. How many minutes, unmasked, can kids be exposed to Delta and not get infected? Once you go over that number, it doesn't matter what you did the rest of the time. It's not like a credit you can bank. Yes, unmasked you go over that number quicker, but with this, it doesn't matter if you slow walk to the critical moment or run to it. Only avoiding it completely makes the difference. This isn't like a test where getting a 0 and only failing by 1 point means different things in terms of understanding the material. For this, a 0 and failing by 1 point end up in the exact same place...infection.

I'm sorry, but it sounds like parents are trying to bargain their way into or out of which situation sucks more. If I was a parent, I would start from the place that sending a kid to school, especially in areas with low vax rates, means my child will eventually be infected. Then a parent has to decide if that is acceptable or not, and what to do about it if it's unacceptable.
Click to expand...
Believe me, we are well aware of all of this. I’d love nothing more than to keep her home until she’s vaccinated. Unfortunately for multiple reasons, that’s not an option.
 
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