Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[correcaminos]

In other news, I was just called today about a booster study. It is totally optional to do it, but since I gave my arm twice, I'm glad to do it again. If I go in next week, I will share what they expect and what types of things they are testing.

ETA: likely for Delta variant and not just a regular booster from what I read. I will be transparent once I know the details of course (as always)

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

The fact that all the medical authorities cant get their messages straight frustrates me

I was told to mix AZ with mRNA due to superior immunity results. Now the WHO warns about the danger of mixing vaccine types...I was like "You gotta be kidding me?"

Murphys law will dictate two things..till our upcoming trip end of September, Floridas numbers will mimmik last years New York ones and US will not let mix and match vaccines in accross the border.

Yes I am a glass half full guy

I wouldn't worry about the border issue. One can fly from Canada to the USA today with NO vaccine, let alone mixed and matched ones. The Canadian government has said any negotiated border opening will include acceptance of vaccines approved for use in Canada.

I don't know why the WHO is suddenly concerned with vaccine mixing as it has been shown to be safe. We are still learning about the long-term benefits, but worst case scenario people who mixed can get a second shot of mRNA down the line. People get flu shots every year and no one asks if they're getting the same brand each time.

The changing info does lead to second guessing. I debated whether or not to get a second AstraZeneca does, and ultimately decided it offered sufficient protection and I was happy to get vaccinated sooner than I would have otherwise. I also had to decide whether to do it at 8 weeks or 12 weeks. I figure at the end of the day we're all getting boosters at some point regardless.

 

[mmascari]

The COVID version of chicken little is the constant speculation about a future variant that might evade the vaccines.

It's just a game of chicken, not chicken little.

On one side, the virus is constantly mutating and being exposed to vaccinated individuals. Eventually given enough attempts and some luck, one of them may evade the vaccine.

On the other side, vaccine uptake reducing the population that can support an active infection.

One of them will get there first.

We all assume the second one will win and eliminate enough simmering infected people to limit the number of mutation attempts enough. But, there's a huge "hold my beer" population avoiding vaccination to give the virus as much time and as many chances as possible.

It's not chicken little to want to minimize this possibility. It's irrational optimism to ignore that people are encouraging the outcome and assume it will never happen. I completely agree that it's not a concern today with any of the current variants. Probably not a concern tomorrow or the day after either. Still, if we encourage those conditions long enough, it'll happen. Gradually, not all at once.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

That is not true.

I want to be clear though. While I do think vaccination will result in more favorable outcomes than not vaccinating, there is absolutely nothing to suggest a healthy 30 year old imperatively needs to get vaccinated. A poor outcome is highly unlikely in both scenarios.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I want to be clear though. While I do think vaccination will result in more favorable outcomes than not vaccinating, there is absolutely nothing to suggest a healthy 30 year old imperatively needs to get vaccinated. A poor outcome is highly unlikely in both scenarios.

I mean, there’s more to negative outcomes than death. I know more than 1 previously healthy person, no preexisting conditions, in their 30s who has been impacted by long haul Covid, and whose careers are negatively impacted because of the symptoms Long haul Covid brought them. (This is from catching covid pre-vaccines being available).

 

[DisneyDebRob]

I want to be clear though. While I do think vaccination will result in more favorable outcomes than not vaccinating, there is absolutely nothing to suggest a healthy 30 year old imperatively needs to get vaccinated. A poor outcome is highly unlikely in both scenarios.

Then with the scenario you presented, which I agree with that it’s unlikely for a bad outcome, why not take the most presentable path that will have more favorable outcomes for yourself (not you) and others?

I mean if I was depositing a check in a bank account.. and there was 2 lines, both with friendly clerks but one was giving out lollipops, I’m thinking I’ll get in that line. Money still deposited but I get a nice treat also.

 

[correcaminos]

I did want to add (and edited above for those who read) that it seems to be for the Delta variant. Once I have real info, I will share of course as always.

 

[correcaminos]

I want to be clear though. While I do think vaccination will result in more favorable outcomes than not vaccinating, there is absolutely nothing to suggest a healthy 30 year old imperatively needs to get vaccinated. A poor outcome is highly unlikely in both scenarios.

Except variants are an issue. And risk to those with immune compromised systems. They are not as much of a risk to themselves but they are to others. Why after all this time are people so selfish about this? I get legit fears, but for goodness sake look at the mess we are in. Do we want to become like other countries who cannot vaccinate? Ridiculous really.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I want to be clear though. While I do think vaccination will result in more favorable outcomes than not vaccinating, there is absolutely nothing to suggest a healthy 30 year old imperatively needs to get vaccinated. A poor outcome is highly unlikely in both scenarios.

This is a major argument used by anti-vaxxers to rationalize their refuse to get themselves and/or their children vaccinated.

 

[Jenny72]

So many times I have seen people say "if it's my time to go, it's my time to go" when considering the relatively low risk of death from the virus. I wish we had more media spotlight on the long covid clinics being set up around the country. (https://www.scientificamerican.com/...linics-treat-mysterious-and-ongoing-symptoms/) I really don't think people would be saying, "if it's my time to have ED, it's my time to have ED" or "if it's my time to have an debilitating disorder, it's my time to have a debilitating disorder."

Many people are more afraid of living with disabilities than they are of dying. To quote Hamilton, "Dying is easy, young man, living is harder."

 

[DisneyCane]

Asymptomatic is not the same as pre-symptomatic, which is only a portion of people infected, which doesn't indicate that it's not a thing.

The single study you linked to is for a small population in Germany from 2020, though referenced in April of 2021.

I know that asymptomatic is not the same as pre-symptomatic. That was my point. There is evidence that people who never develop any symptoms are not a significant source of spread.

You asked for one study ("just one") and I linked to one posted by the USA CDC. There are links to other studies in that study as well.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I want to be clear though. While I do think vaccination will result in more favorable outcomes than not vaccinating, there is absolutely nothing to suggest a healthy 30 year old imperatively needs to get vaccinated. A poor outcome is highly unlikely in both scenarios.

We keep saying it. Herd immunity. Reducing the occurrence of variants that will increase the risk to 30 year-olds.

They're at less risk, hence why vaccines were rolled out based on age. 30 year-olds were a lower priority than 70 year-olds, this doesn't mean vaccines were supposed to stop at that point.

Regardless of how urgent it is for younger people to get vaccinated, there is no downside. It's quick, it's safe, it's free. It's all reward and no risk.

 

[LaughingGravy]

There is absolutely nothing to suggest a healthy 30 year old imperatively needs to get vaccinated. A poor outcome is highly unlikely in both scenarios.

That's only true if said 30 year old will not leave the house and interact with anybody in any way in-person except those fully vaccinated and confirmed to not have a case of Covid-19.
Otherwise, there is the likely possibility of catching and spreading, even if not getting sick themselves.

Reportedly, the now dominant Delta strain in the US seems to have a high rate of infection and resulting consequences, including the obvious ability to retransmit among the 20-30 set, to then others.

This may really be a case of many reluctant believers of non science dying off with a lot of credit for that going to misinformation.
It will be seen as a tragedy by some.

 

[DisneyCane]

We keep saying it. Herd immunity. Reducing the occurrence of variants that will increase the risk to 30 year-olds.

They're at less risk, hence why vaccines were rolled out based on age. 30 year-olds were a lower priority than 70 year-olds, this doesn't mean vaccines were supposed to stop at that point.

Regardless of how urgent it is for younger people to get vaccinated, there is no downside. It's quick, it's safe, it's free. It's all reward and no risk.

There is some downside. None of it is a reason to not get vaccinated but you are pretty likely to feel pretty cruddy for a day or so after the second shot. There is also a miniscule risk to the vaccine which pales in comparison to the very low risk from COVID. I would certainly encourage any 30 year old to get vaccinated.

There is likely some age below which the risk from being vaccinated is equivalent to the risk from getting COVID. That age is certainly under 20 so any adult should get vaccinated.

 

[DisneyCane]

So here is the chart of daily cases from Iowa which has a just OK vaccination rate (52%) and where the Delta variant accounted for over half of cases in the last two weeks of June and has been estimated to be 80% at this point.

Why, again, is there so much panic? Even with the increases in FL, FL's daily cases are still lower than at any point during the pandemic except for the brief period which preceded the increase.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

So here is the chart of daily cases from Iowa which has a just OK vaccination rate (52%) and where the Delta variant accounted for over half of cases in the last two weeks of June and has been estimated to be 80% at this point.

View attachment 571984
Why, again, is there so much panic? Even with the increases in FL, FL's daily cases are still lower than at any point during the pandemic except for the brief period which preceded the increase.

Over 23,500 new cases in a week. A 44% increase from the week prior. THAT is the concern. That's 23,500 more opportunities for the virus to infect other people along with 23,500 more opportunities to mutate.

Not to mention people traveling in droves to Florida.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

So here is the chart of daily cases from Iowa which has a just OK vaccination rate (52%) and where the Delta variant accounted for over half of cases in the last two weeks of June and has been estimated to be 80% at this point.

View attachment 571984
Why, again, is there so much panic? Even with the increases in FL, FL's daily cases are still lower than at any point during the pandemic except for the brief period which preceded the increase.

Because now we have a vaccine so numbers shouldn’t be climbing as they are. You can’t compare pandemic numbers with numbers after months of vaccines. Of course they won’t be the same but that doesn’t mean numbers shouldn’t be climbing like they are.
Panic? Not so sure I hear panic just questions why a better job in Florida isn’t being done with getting people vaccinated.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Because now we have a vaccine so numbers shouldn’t be climbing as they are. You can’t compare pandemic numbers with numbers after months of vaccines. Of course they won’t be the same but that doesn’t mean numbers shouldn’t be climbing like they are.
Panic? Not so sure I hear panic just questions why a better job in Florida isn’t being done with getting people vaccinated.

Especially with people wanting to travel to WDW and Disney wanting to fully re-open.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

I mean, there’s more to negative outcomes than death. I know more than 1 previously healthy person, no preexisting conditions, in their 30s who has been impacted by long haul Covid, and whose careers are negatively impacted because of the symptoms Long haul Covid brought them. (This is from catching covid pre-vaccines being available).

I agree, which is why I said vaccine is the safer bet. I live in a March 2020 COVID hot bed. Every person I know in their 20s and 30s had COVID and none dealt with what you described. It can happen but it's certainly not the average experience.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

That's only true if said 30 year old will not leave the house and interact with anybody in any way in-person except those fully vaccinated and confirmed to not have a case of Covid-19.
Otherwise, there is the likely possibility of catching and spreading, even if not getting sick themselves.

Reportedly, the now dominant Delta strain in the US seems to have a high rate of infection and resulting consequences, including the obvious ability to retransmit among the 20-30 set, to then others.

This may really be a case of many reluctant believers of non science dying off with a lot of credit for that going to misinformation.
It will be seen as a tragedy by some.

Agree. Vaccination is not only about protecting yourself.